Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

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azshine
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Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by azshine »

I have seen some posts commenting about using Turbo yeast. Why would one not want to use Turbo?
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by LWTCS »

Mostly because the turbo will not make better booze.
Most of us are trying to make better booze. So much so that the speed of a turbo wash is totally irrelavant.

And we got some recipes that can compete with the speed issue as well.

Don't need a micowave oven to make popcorn either.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by rad14701 »

Most turbo yeasts are engineered, by adding nutrients and other components, to ferment fast and to high levels of alcohol content (%ABV)...

What commonly happens is that an uninformed person wanders into a brew shop and is sold turbo yeast thinking it is the quick and easy way to making hooch at home... But they are never told that pushing for a high %ABV wash is going to cause potential problems...Those problems being off tastes, off smells, problems clearing, and rough tasting spirits... So the same uninformed person heads back to the brew shop and are sold clearing agents and a carbon filtering system... More money in the brew shops pocket and the idea of cheap easy hooch is becoming less appealing...

Some of these previously uninformed people eventually make their way here where they learn that there is no quick and easy way to get quality hooch by pushing for a high %ABV wash, fermenting exceedingly fast, using extreme amounts of nutrients and other components... They learn to use Tried and True recipes that produce nice hooch virtually every time, to know better than to trust every smiling brew shop salesperson, and live happily ever after...

Out of curiosity, where are you on this time-line, azshine...???
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by azshine »

Arizona MST (GMT -7)
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by rad14701 »

azshine wrote:Arizona MST (GMT -7)
:shock:

I meant in reference to my description of uninformed brew shop patrons using turbo yeast... :roll:
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by azshine »

I think it's time to move on to some other kinds of yeast other than the turbo. I am not sure on which kind to pick or the quantities of yeast and sugar and temp for a 25L wash.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Bayou-Ruler »

azshine wrote:I think it's time to move on to some other kinds of yeast other than the turbo. I am not sure on which kind to pick or the quantities of yeast and sugar and temp for a 25L wash.
Smart choice to ditch turbos!

I too run 20-25 liter washes and was once a Turbo fool.

I use 60 grams of Red Star Premier Cuvee Yeast and have great luck with it. I have also used Lalvin EC-1118 Wine Yeast and had great luck with it too. Its just a little pricey so I stick with the Red Star. You can fine them both here: http://www.fermentationtrap.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That's where I have found the best prices on many things. :eugeek:
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by azshine »

What are you using for your sugar component? Cane sugar, grain and how much?
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Bayou-Ruler »

azshine wrote:What are you using for your sugar component? Cane sugar, grain and how much?

I use plain old cane sugar, here is my exact recipe that i use its a slightly modified version of Winos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

This is for a 6 gallon wash. (23 Liter)
9 pounds of sugar{dissolved in hot water}
1 tsp of citric acid
2 Tbsp of DAP (Yeast Nutrient)
1/8 tsp Epsom salts
60 grams Red Star Premier Cuvee Yeast OR ¼ cup bakers yeast
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by azshine »

1 tsp of citric acid
2 Tbsp of DAP (Yeast Nutrient)
1/8 tsp Epsom salts
What is the purpose of each of these? Remember I'm new to this.
Thanks
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Bayou-Ruler »

azshine wrote:1 tsp of citric acid
2 Tbsp of DAP (Yeast Nutrient)
1/8 tsp Epsom salts
What is the purpose of each of these? Remember I'm new to this.
Thanks

You know I actually left one thing out.... Gypsum

1 tsp of citric acid (For the water PH)
1 tsp Gypsum (For PH and Hardness)
2 Tbsp of DAP (Yeast Nutrient) Yeast need food!
1/8 tsp Epsom salts (It was in the original recipe so I left it in)

Don't rush you will regret it. Take your time search this site and educate your self. Great place to start is the FAQ and then the Tried and True recipe section. Every thing there is proven, no guess work.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Dnderhead »

all but the citric acid (to lower PH) are yeast nutrients yeast cant live on bread alone..
they need vitamins/minerals /amino acids,nitrogen ,basically a well rounded meal, some like grain
has all they need others like fruits lack some and then sugar lacks all.so when making up a recipe
you need to play "doctor" and figure out what your mash/wash lacks. a wash will work with out
just not as efficiently and be slow or even "stall".nitrogen is one of the more important ones but over doing
it can lead to "blue" distillint.and off flavors. that is what happens with "turbos"
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by arthurz »

I use turbo yeast because of the neutrients that are in there, all in one pack. I have not noticed any off flavours, but then again I am new at this.
I have read the "true and tested" and "sugar wash" and would like to try one of those recepies but the (yeast neutrients) ingrediants are too many and cannot be easily obtained all in one package.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by blanikdog »

rad14701 wrote:Most turbo yeasts are engineered, by adding nutrients and other components, to ferment fast and to high levels of alcohol content (%ABV)...

What commonly happens is that an uninformed person wanders into a brew shop and is sold turbo yeast thinking it is the quick and easy way to making hooch at home... But they are never told that pushing for a high %ABV wash is going to cause potential problems...Those problems being off tastes, off smells, problems clearing, and rough tasting spirits... So the same uninformed person heads back to the brew shop and are sold clearing agents and a carbon filtering system... More money in the brew shops pocket and the idea of cheap easy hooch is becoming less appealing...

Some of these previously uninformed people eventually make their way here where they learn that there is no quick and easy way to get quality hooch by pushing for a high %ABV wash, fermenting exceedingly fast, using extreme amounts of nutrients and other components... They learn to use Tried and True recipes that produce nice hooch virtually every time, to know better than to trust every smiling brew shop salesperson, and live happily ever after...

Out of curiosity, where are you on this time-line, azshine...???
Well said, rad!
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by seravitae »

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p6839359

just pointing out i've never not used a turbo and my results are always excellent, so let's try to keep an open mind. Turbos require more care distilling but I think we should stop flogging turbos as bad or the 'lesser' alternative to standard yeast. They both have their ups and downs, but i certainly, respectfully, disagree with previous statements that turbo's don't make good booze, or that they make booze not of the same quality as standard yeast preperations.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by likkerluvver »

Definitely a good idea to try some of the recipes in the "Tried and True" section.

The main drawbacks of high-yield turbos are their cost and all the extra frigging with carbon they require (not to mention the time and extra expense) if you want a good neutral. The multi-distillations required by a potstill are also a real PITA when you seek a pure neutral. They are definitely better suited to column distillation, which will produce a half-decent product on one run, but still require carbon polishing. BUT...Some people do have good results when using some of the specialty yeast packages (rum, vodka and whisk[e]y) when the sugar levels are not excessive.

My advice is to use up those high-yield turbos first (but without maxing-out the sugar) in order to get a decent supply to last you while you tinker with some "T&T's". Despite the fact that they may take a little longer (some don't) and produce lower ABV washes (some are fairly high) you'll save time and expense frigging with carbon since it will not be necessary if you make good cuts.

Then you probably will not want to go back to turbos, since you'll be enjoying the taste of a far superior product, and you'll understand why so many at this site (and others) crap on them. :D :D :D


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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by LWTCS »

Never said bad.

Said better.

Turbos ain't makin better. Then all the fiddle fussin with more supplies that cost more money.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by rad14701 »

seravitae wrote:just pointing out i've never not used a turbo and my results are always excellent, so let's try to keep an open mind. Turbos require more care distilling but I think we should stop flogging turbos as bad or the 'lesser' alternative to standard yeast. They both have their ups and downs, but i certainly, respectfully, disagree with previous statements that turbo's don't make good booze, or that they make booze not of the same quality as standard yeast preperations.
If all you have ever used is turbo yeast then consider the possibility that you don't know how much better your spirits could be compared to what you are drinking now... I highly doubt that you are having that much better luck with turbo yeats than everyone else who has tried them, but if you are happy with what you are making that's all that matters for you... But to say that others are falsely knocking turbo yeast is just not true...

I have stated previously that I have never used turbo yeasts, yet while that is true it doesn't mean that I have no experience with them... I know people who have used them and have helped try improving the results with only limited success... There are easier ways to achieve better results and there really isn't much to be gained from this hobby if trying to improve the results of a turbo wash is all you ever do... Better results with less time, effort, and expense seems to be a better course of action...

But, as has been said, to each their own...
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by seravitae »

azshine - i see you have PM's disabled - any particular reason for this? I would like to contact you via PM or otherwise. If you find this appropriate feel free to contact me either through this thread, pm, or i'd be happy to supply my email address.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Froggyshine »

OUps....
I just mixed my Turbo yeast in my fermenting barrel......and then I found this topic.... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
I really believe in the "slower the better" in everything in my life....Should have applied that for my spirit making :cry:
Can the fermenting temperature eventually give something better?
Poor novice that I am....
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by GuerillaDistilla »

Froggyshine wrote:OUps....
I just mixed my Turbo yeast in my fermenting barrel......and then I found this topic.... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
I really believe in the "slower the better" in everything in my life....Should have applied that for my spirit making :cry:
Can the fermenting temperature eventually give something better?
Poor novice that I am....
Just don't let your ferment get too hot. I try to keep mine between 75F and 85F, depending on the yeast. If it gets too hot you end up with a lot of off-flavors.

And for the record... I've used turbo's for two years before I learned better. The parent site should really stress turbos as a last resort for quick and easy ferments and steer novices towards the tried and true section. I'm glad I stuck to the craft because for a while there I thought I was making bad cuts or having other environmental problems. Once I went back to basics I started making some wonderful things.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Ayay »

20L @ 18% sounds more better than 40L @ 9%. Each will produce the same amount of alc, the stillin time should be the same, but the turbo sellers go on to claim that the stillin time can be halved if you follow their formula of carbon in the wash and carbon in the stillate rather than doin the proper cuts. Carbonin actually takes longer than makin the cuts after a slow and carefull stillin.

All this for the space occupied by 20L of wash, so why is the space of a 20L fermenter so important? Well it's because they say you need a 6L or a 20L boiler and a short psudo reflux collum that's why.

Add sugar for a 10% to 12% wash and the turbo will do it well. Go for a 30 - 80L boiler so as to still all the wash no matter how low the %alc. Still slow and careful and make proper cuts. Carbon is a last resort for fixin mistakes and you will soon get by without it.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Paul1453 »

A couple of things I noticed about using turbo yeast. I have found that it can leave a bananna like taste/smell in the distillate even after carbon filtering. I don't find this particularly displeasing, especially for foo foo girly type drinks (fruit PDs and that type of sweet drink), but I do find it not the best if I'm going for a more manly corn sipping whiskey.

Secondly, later in the ferment it starts to smell as my 8 year old son says like "egg farts". Early in the ferment it has a much nicer almost cotton candy like smell, but as it works down it degrades into the egg fart smell. This could be from the corn and rice I added to the basic sugar turbo recipe.

I also use much less yeast than recommended. One package of yeast is supposed to make one 5-6 Gal batch. I use one pack for a 15-18 Gallon batch.

I've gotten what I consider acceptable results from the turbos, with my added ingredients and carbon filtering. My friends claim my stuff is some of the best they ever tasted, and no one has ever said my stuff was undrinkable rot gut crap. Everyone comes back asking for more of my special homebrew.

Turbos have helped me get my stocks up because of their reliably quick ferment(7 days max). Quick and easy for a novice starting out, but probably not capable of producing the finest product available.

I've only got one package of turbo left that came with my stills, and don't plan on buying anymore because of the extra expense.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by blanikdog »

If one wishes to use yeast that is designed to make fuel thats fine. Nobody here has ever said it can't be used. All we have ever said that yeast that produces a high ABV ferment is not the way to make good spirits for drinking. It is a good way for retailers et cetera to make money, but not the best way to make drinking likker.

If one is happy with turbo use it by all means but if a new distiller arrives on the scene I think you will find that most serious craft distillers - rather that pisspots after cheap booze - will always recommend a maximum af around 14% abv ferments. It's really that simple.
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Alcotec 24

Post by Horse_Shoe »

I am fermenting a small batch of Alcotec 24 now. The only difference is that I substituted white cane sugar for light brown sugar. I don't care which yeast I use. Baker's yeast seems to me to be the most simple and available. I have used bakers yeast for years. Just recently, I have been trying distillers yeast and I bought a packet of this turbo. I will be glad to post the results here, without any bias towards one or the other.

The Alcotec 24 claims to ferment in about 24 hours. Mine is going now for about 30 hours. I suppose this could be the brown sugar that I substituted for the recommended white sugar.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by blanikdog »

Horseshoe, feel free to report your unbiased results but it doesn't alter the fact that yeast that ferments to somewhere over 24abv is OK for fuel and shit for craft likker. How many times do we have to answer this question? When will people read the previous post and have the mental capacity to see that this forum's primary aim is frigging SAFETY and we will not be swayed. Show me one post where we have said that it means instant death.

Agent orange was safe too.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Kentucky shinner »

I have used both. My first ferment was with turbo's. I personally could not drink what I made. I am sure there were many other factors involved I am sure, like cuts. I am sure I did not make good cuts, but the next wash I mixed up was the same recipe only with bakers yeast. The results were not nearly as much alcohol, but the taste was really different. I have 2 bags of turbo yeast still in my cabinet that were left . They are still there. I am sure turbo yeast have there place, but I really think they are best for making fuel. For good flavor they just dont work. This is just my opinion, and personal experience.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by aqua vitae »

Yes please report your results Horse_Shoe. Are you aiming for neutral or flavour? What kind of still do you use?

---

Everything has it's place.
I wouldn't use a turbo for spirits that reminds of whisky and I wouldn't use a pot still for neutral. A good turbo (not fermented above 14%) works fine for neutral using a well designed column still though.

There is great differences in the quality of turbos and the product should be chosen wisely even if you fulfill the conditions mentioned above.
The ones that are developed for fast fermenting have too much nutrients and the fast ferment produces lots of fusels.
The ones that are designed for high alcohol wash are very alcohol tolerant but they also produce lots of fusels.
These two types is probably best used for fuel ethanol unless you got an ARC or another kind of very well designed column still.

Vodka Star is definitely the best one if you have access to Alcotec products http://www.turbo-yeast.biz/English/Alco ... a_Star.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (they write that is for pot stills but don't read that, use only for neutral and with a well designed column).

Turbo's have been discussed before here and elsewhere but techniques for neutral is developed every day and some of the advice is very generalized.
For the most advanced electronically controlled stills (ARC) wash purity doesn't matter much.
For a long manually controlled VM or RLM you'll be fine with a clean turbo as the one I linked to.
Everything has it's place.

Before anyone loose it, I still mean not above 14%, only for neutral and only with a well designed column.

If you have a pot still or similar and want to make something similar to whisky or rum there is so better alternatives than turbo. But that is stated before so many times so I don't have to repeat that.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Horse_Shoe »

Alcotec 24 with Brown Sugar is still fermenting after 48 hours. The temp has been maintained at 72F.
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Re: Yeast, To turbo or not to turbo?

Post by Horse_Shoe »

Alcotec 24 with brown sugar has stopped fermenting. Will let settle and strip tomorrow. SG .090
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