yeast rehydration

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:23 pm

http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-l ... rehyd.html

Here the lalvin site says to use 40 deg C water to rehydrate the EC-1118 yeast for 15 minuits.

On Tonys site there is numerous claims to never put yeast in water above 34 deg C because the yeast will die instantly ?????

Who is right lol. Im thinking about listening to the mfg of the yeast since they use it every day.

Also Lalvin has nothing to say about "yeast starters" They seem kind of pointless considering all the extra work involved.

Any comments on this?

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:49 pm

I've always followed the directions on the back of the EC-1118 package for rehydration. It hasn't harmed the yeast.

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:59 pm

KatoFong wrote:I've always followed the directions on the back of the EC-1118 package for rehydration. It hasn't harmed the yeast.

how much do you pitch? I usually only pitch a 5 gram package, but it ferments pretty slow with my sugar washes. My wine kits finish in 7 days flat with the same yeast....

On tonys site many people say to pitch 100grams of the EC1118 with lots of nutrient to act as a turbo. This amount sounds outrageous to me, as well as expensive! 100 grams compared to 5 is a huge difference. That would be 20 packages. my wine shop sells them for $2.50 each! That would cost me 50 bucks!!!!!!

Am I being to cheap and under pitching my washes?

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:10 pm

You are underpitching your yeasts--I usually drop in five or six packets for a five-gallon batch, and even that's low. But you're not being cheap. 2.50 per packet of Lalvin EC-1118 is outrageous. You should be able to get it for less than a dollar a packet. If you can't find it for that in your area, check online. http://www.piwine.com sells it for 66 cents a packet. Buy in bulk and it's plenty cheap.

OldStormy · Post by **OldStormy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:14 pm

Hi All,
As I understand it, Yeast multiplies faster than rabbits if the temperature is in the germinating range and there is sufficient nutrients to nourish it.
Starting with a little will take a little longer than starting with a lot but should still get the job done.
Cheers,
OldStormy

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:17 pm

give it air it reproduces seal it off n it makes alcohol. just as u say it will take longer to get a big colony going,, im currently using the last of my cylinder of yeast to start farmin my own out

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:40 pm

KatoFong wrote:You are underpitching your yeasts--I usually drop in five or six packets for a five-gallon batch, and even that's low. But you're not being cheap. 2.50 per packet of Lalvin EC-1118 is outrageous. You should be able to get it for less than a dollar a packet. If you can't find it for that in your area, check online. http://www.piwine.com sells it for 66 cents a packet. Buy in bulk and it's plenty cheap.

wow it is outrageous. thanks for that site, the yeast is so cheap there! only problem is border taxes and ihsit. Ill start ordering in bulk from there if I cant find a source here in canada.

Anyone know of a good cheap online source in canada? Brewhaus.ca only sells turbos and such.

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:42 pm

Yeah. The yeast will multiply and will ferment out if you underpitch it. I always end up with a lot more sediment on the bottom of my fermentor than could be accounted for by the measly five packets I pitched. But that does take longer. In my experience--and I'm not massively overpitching--EC-1118 is a fairly slow ferment. I've had a five-gallon batch take a month to ferment out, even at optimal temperatures.

On the other hand, I've been told it can do the same job in a week.

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:45 pm

Brett wrote:give it air it reproduces seal it off n it makes alcohol. just as u say it will take longer to get a big colony going,, im currently using the last of my cylinder of yeast to start farmin my own out

This is true. But my wine kits always hit the .9's during the primary fermentation ( lid on loosely open to air) and in 7 days at that! Then I transfer to my carboy with an airlock and it hits .990 in the next week. I wonder whats in those juices that make it so efficient. This is with the EC 1118 5gram pack.

Post by **Tater** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:50 pm

Can allways use 1 pk of yeast as a starter and grow your own.Works for sourdough users

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:53 pm

KatoFong wrote:Yeah. The yeast will multiply and will ferment out if you underpitch it. I always end up with a lot more sediment on the bottom of my fermentor than could be accounted for by the measly five packets I pitched. But that does take longer. In my experience--and I'm not massively overpitching--EC-1118 is a fairly slow ferment. I've had a five-gallon batch take a month to ferment out, even at optimal temperatures.

On the other hand, I've been told it can do the same job in a week.

exactly! Im going on 3 weeks with optimum nutrients and a low starting sg, spring water, yeast hydration and 21 deg C fermenting temp. Only thing I could of done better is areate the must more before pitching. Its now at 1.025 sg. Theres so many variables involved like temperature and water which is different to everyone where each of us live. I guess everyone finds there magic formula after many washes.

Im documenting everything as I go in search of my perfect wash.

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:57 pm

tater wrote:Can allways use 1 pk of yeast as a starter and grow your own.Works for sourdough users

I thought this was pointless extra work till I realised Im under pitching. Maybe this is my answer. Its allot cheaper than pitching 20x the amount of dehydrated yeast.

I need more fermenters to experiment with different washes!

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:02 pm

How exactly does that work?

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:26 pm

Captin Moron wrote:
Brett wrote:give it air it reproduces seal it off n it makes alcohol. just as u say it will take longer to get a big colony going,, im currently using the last of my cylinder of yeast to start farmin my own out

This is true. But my wine kits always hit the .9's during the primary fermentation ( lid on loosely open to air) and in 7 days at that! Then I transfer to my carboy with an airlock and it hits .990 in the next week. I wonder whats in those juices that make it so efficient. This is with the EC 1118 5gram pack.

Thats cause the lids on loose n the lack of inward air flow creates a CO2 barrier from the normal air

Big J · Post by **Big J** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:56 am

Get in touch with this guy to find a local outlet that sells Lalvin yeasts:
Specht, Gordon <gspecht@lallemand.com>

I sent him an email and he got back to me really quickly.

I used 20g Lalvin EC-1118 in a 20L molasses/sugar wash and it fermented out (14%) in about 5 days. I just rehydrated it per the instructions on Lalvin's site, no starter, added some Dap and kept the temp up.

Cheers,
J

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:48 am

Big J wrote:Get in touch with this guy to find a local outlet that sells Lalvin yeasts:
Specht, Gordon <gspecht@lallemand.com>

I sent him an email and he got back to me really quickly.

I used 20g Lalvin EC-1118 in a 20L molasses/sugar wash and it fermented out (14%) in about 5 days. I just rehydrated it per the instructions on Lalvin's site, no starter, added some Dap and kept the temp up.

Cheers,
J

That's about what I get with 3 7gr packets of bakers yeast
14% in 5-7 days.

~POT

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:30 am

how do you actually grow yeast?
can i just buy a really good yeast and grow it so i dont have to buy more?
how do i feed it? sugarwater or something?

Thorin...

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:35 am

yup with sugar water, there was a post on the forum about it somewhere if u try a search, but the basic thing to remember is if it has oxygen it multiplys if there is no oxygen it makes alcohol.

Post by **golden pond** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:28 am

Thorin wrote:how do you actually grow yeast?
can i just buy a really good yeast and grow it so i dont have to buy more?
how do i feed it? sugarwater or something?

Thorin...

As you've probley read on here before, I don't add any yeast to my mash, I get it from the air. It does need to warm weather for this way to work well. Sometimes you can hear my mash popping and cracking 10-12 feet away. As I've been told and Uncle Jesse said also the other day, the only time yeast was added by some old moonshiners was in cooler weather to get the very first ferment started, after it got started the backset kept it going.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:12 am

du you think my old fishtank with airpump would be up tp te job?
its about 40 litres

Just put in yeast and sugarwater, put in the hose from the airpump and let it sit, just adding sugar once in a while?

wouldnt this be REALLY smelly?

TEC · Post by **TEC** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:01 pm

Thorin,

I believe that you need to keep the air sterile that you are pumping into the yeast mixture. Otherwise you will get other kinds of yeast growing in there also, not to mention other nasties.

Post by **Uncle Jesse** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:36 pm

http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16604

they sell pharmaceutical grade oxygen cannisters also, or did last i looked.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:21 pm

The fish tank pump can work... you can get small inline airfilters to clean the air you bubble through the yeast mix... the local stpats.com has 'em.

Captin Moron · Post by **Captin Moron** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:49 am

Big J wrote:Get in touch with this guy to find a local outlet that sells Lalvin yeasts:
Specht, Gordon <gspecht@lallemand.com>

I sent him an email and he got back to me really quickly.

I used 20g Lalvin EC-1118 in a 20L molasses/sugar wash and it fermented out (14%) in about 5 days. I just rehydrated it per the instructions on Lalvin's site, no starter, added some Dap and kept the temp up.

Cheers,
J

Thanks man, I found it for 75 cents a pack! woohoo

Big J · Post by **Big J** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:02 am

Captin Moron wrote: Thanks man, I found it for 75 cents a pack! woohoo