Prestige WD yeast - any good?

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MikeyT
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Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by MikeyT » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:59 am

This is a yest advertised by Gert as being for whiskey. Cost at Brewhaus is $3.99 / packet. Supposed to have Amyloglucosidase added. Is this the same as the amalyse (sp?) i've seen talked about here?

One question I have (to save money). Can I buy one packet of this stuff and culture more myself? And add in amalyse myself?

If this can be done, then how do you culture it to produce more? Or, can I just hold back maybe a quart of my last fermented mash and add it to the next batch?

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Post by Monster Mash » Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:57 am

Hi Mikey,
I am still too much of a rookie to give you personal advise but when I was doing my research on yeasts for whiskey this came up as an excellent choice. Ian Smiley highly recommends this yeast. From what I found out yeasts that are good for vodka and other neutral spirits don't necessarily make a good yeast for a good flavor profile for whiskey. The yeast selection is an important one as it has a significant impact on the flavor profile of the whiskey. Good luck. Maybe one of the more experienced distillers can jump in here. :D
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Post by TownDrunk » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:31 pm

I make whiskey and that yeast is the only yeast I use for it. The Amyloglucosidase helps convert starches to sugars. I still do a starch conversion with malted barley and a few tabs of beano when I mash. But I'm sure the Amyloglucosidase helps get that last little bit of starches I may have missed.

I have not tried just cooking a mash and then add the yeast and see if the Amyloglucosidase does all the conversion work.

It might if I let it ferment long enough. Who knows...

vinifera

Post by vinifera » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:05 pm

Does anywone know if Beano (or similar) is available in Europe? i haven't found it on the net. I'm intending to make some single malt Scotch and thought of using both the GS whisky yeast together together with Scottish ale yeast. With Beano I would get more fermentable sugars and a higher yield.

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Post by mtnwalker2 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:14 pm

TownDrunk wrote:I make whiskey and that yeast is the only yeast I use for it. The Amyloglucosidase helps convert starches to sugars. I still do a starch conversion with malted barley and a few tabs of beano when I mash. But I'm sure the Amyloglucosidase helps get that last little bit of starches I may have missed.

I have not tried just cooking a mash and then add the yeast and see if the Amyloglucosidase does all the conversion work.

It might if I let it ferment long enough. Who knows...

I have used 9 packs so far. Six on ujsm recipie, and the others on full mashes. As the advertisement claims the sugar conversion pays for the yeast price difference. Its not a turbo, so still need to adjust with ph buffer or acid, and is not a substitude for a mash conversion prodeedure.

Excellent for uncooked or cooked worts.
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Post by Grayson_Stewart » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:30 pm

I've used it, and it did appear to give a larger yield to me....but 2 lbs. sugar gives a larger in a ten gallon wash and is alot les expensive.
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Post by mtnwalker2 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:13 pm

Grayson_Stewart wrote:I've used it, and it did appear to give a larger yield to me....but 2 lbs. sugar gives a larger in a ten gallon wash and is alot les expensive.
I agree, but I think this yeast is for those who are interested in a total all grain recipie, or a low OG sour mash, or the UJSM type of uncooked grains. Improves the grain conversion, and I think some of the flavor profile. It is a yeast specific for whiskey production, such as the professional distillers would use. More for those who don't mind the 1080 to 1090 OG worts. Not a turbo, so still have to deal with ph and such.
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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by Uncle Remus » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:12 am

MikeyT wrote:This is a yest advertised by Gert as being for whiskey. Cost at Brewhaus is $3.99 / packet. Supposed to have Amyloglucosidase added. Is this the same as the amalyse (sp?) i've seen talked about here?

One question I have (to save money). Can I buy one packet of this stuff and culture more myself? And add in amalyse myself?

If this can be done, then how do you culture it to produce more? Or, can I just hold back maybe a quart of my last fermented mash and add it to the next batch?
It's excellent. Brewhaus in Canada quit selling it. I've been keeping a cuture goin in the fridge now at least 10 generations. When your mash is finished fermenting scoop up some of the spent grain and dregs from the bottom. Put em in a jar, add a little water and maybe a spoon or 2 of sugar ( not too much) and put it in the fridge. Next time you make a mash throw it like you would throw a pack of yeast.
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vinifera

Post by vinifera » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:36 pm

Interesting Uncle Remus, but are the amylase enzymes still active after the first use?

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by MikeyT » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:17 pm

Thanks Uncle Remus. That's what i figured. I will probably make up a starter batch and culture a few small jars of it to keep around since it may be months between my batches..

Also, it looks like Amyloglucosidase (a-amylase) is THE enzyme in Beano's according to my google searches. So, plopping a few more Beano's in each new batch shouldn't hurt. Should get slightly higher alcohol % because of it and less gas later. :)

What I couldn't find out is whether the amylase enzyme reproduce or not. It may, cause when I dose up my body with beano's for several days it seems that I don't need to take any more for a few weeks.

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Post by Uncle Remus » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:51 pm

No I don't think the amylase would even exist after the first generation, the yeast is the only thing your culturing. I bought some alfa and gluco amylase from Mile hi distilling I think. It's not very expensive, certainly much cheaper than Beano. Every time a make a grain mash now I add a couple spoonfulls of each at the striking temperature...I've been getting some really good conversions.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.

TownDrunk

Post by TownDrunk » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:00 am

Aye, the beano is expensive in both the tab and liquid form! I don't do this hobby to save money. I enjoy it and it saves me the headache from commercial spirits.

I really hope that Uncle Jesse's distillery really takes off. It would be great to be able to buy a commercial spirit where the distiller is more concerned with the quality than the almighty dollar!

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by MikeyT » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:08 pm

Got my Prestige yeast in the mail. I'm culturing 10 small jars of it now. Made up 1 cup of wort with DME and it's starting to bubble through the air lock. When it settles down I'll use it to culture the 10 jars. About 5 of them will go into the freezer after they grow for about a week. The others will set in the fridge till I get my mash ready. I only used about 1/16 tsp of the yeast to get this wort going. (1/16 Tsp = 1 smidgen)

I will make a 2 cup wort, using one of the cultures, to be the starter for my first mash ferment.

The culture medium was made with DME and clear Gelatin.

I swirled the 1st wort while ago and damned if it didn't look good enough to drink! Foam and all!

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Post by wineo » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:41 am

This yeast is great for whiskey.It gives all those whiskey flavors.My friend started a UJSM with 1118 yeast,and I did one with the w/d yeast.Mine has way more whiskey flavors than his.His is much cleaner tasting,but he is going to make his into a neutral spirit,not whiskey.The more you mix up the grain bill using the w/d yeast,the more the flavors get complex.I ran a mixed grain bill with malted 2 row ,malted wheat,vienna malt,unmalted barley,oats,and a little flaked rye,and corn sugar.I mashed it in the sweet range of mashing temps,{158f} and the w/d yeast.I fermented it dry,and cleared it before i ran it.It turned out great.It it very complex,spicy but mild,and has alot of malt sweetness to it.Its still a white dog,cause i have a 2nd round working with backset.I will combine the one i have done with the 2nd one,after making cuts,and put it on oak.This yeast does wonders!
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Post by Husker » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:24 am

Has anyone had experience with this yeast on a continious culture basis (such as UJSM). I know that the enzimes would only have a go for the first batch, but how about the yeast. If it gives much better flavor, then is a colony of it a good long lived, multi-generation yeast?

H.

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Post by wineo » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:19 am

I have one going now.It has had 10 runs off of it.The enzymes last for a couple of runs,then I add amelaze every other run,{2tsps}It just keeps on going.I plan on doing a UJSM in the future,with 1118 yeast,to use for reflux,after stripping,The 1118 Makes a good corn base for refluxing.Clean,but with a little spicy corn flavor.Beats the hell out of turbos,and is cheaper.I refluxed the leftovers from the UJSM Ive been running,and what i kept was real good.I had 5 gallons of heads/tails,and put some baking soda in it,and refluxed it to 95%.I only kept 2 gallons of the best of the run,but it was leftovers anyway.Its clean,but corny tasting.
wineo

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Re:

Post by wishbone77 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:57 am

wineo wrote:I have one going now.It has had 10 runs off of it.The enzymes last for a couple of runs,then I add amelaze every other run,{2tsps}It just keeps on going.I plan on doing a UJSM in the future,with 1118 yeast,to use for reflux,after stripping,The 1118 Makes a good corn base for refluxing.Clean,but with a little spicy corn flavor.Beats the hell out of turbos,and is cheaper.I refluxed the leftovers from the UJSM Ive been running,and what i kept was real good.I had 5 gallons of heads/tails,and put some baking soda in it,and refluxed it to 95%.I only kept 2 gallons of the best of the run,but it was leftovers anyway.Its clean,but corny tasting.
wineo
I hope you guys don't mind me posting on this old thread? I am wondering if anyone has any experience comparing Prestige WD to Still Spirits Distillers Yeast? I have used SS once with a wheat heavy mash bill and thought it did a fine job, but after going through the comments here I am curious to hear if anyone has a strong opinion on the two for a standard bourbon bill?
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Re: Re:

Post by still_stirrin » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:25 am

wishbone77 wrote:I hope you guys don't mind me posting on this old thread?

I am wondering if anyone has any experience comparing Prestige WD to Still Spirits Distillers Yeast?
Nope...I use bread yeast (3 packs for $1 USD). It works great for all cereal grains. But I don't run mashes higher than 10%ABV potential, so the bread yeast works great. I use fresh yeast every pitch (because it is so economical) and the flavor is rich and "bready".

I don't feel the need for exotic "distiller's" yeasts if I'm just going to distill the mash anyway.
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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by wishbone77 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:36 pm

Nope...I use bread yeast (3 packs for $1 USD). It works great for all cereal grains. But I don't run mashes higher than 10%ABV potential, so the bread yeast works great. I use fresh yeast every pitch (because it is so economical) and the flavor is rich and "bready".

I don't feel the need for exotic "distiller's" yeasts if I'm just going to distill the mash anyway.
ss[/quote]

Thanks for the response, I've read other posts from people happy with simple bread yeast as well, but I've not yet personally tried it. It seems to me as though the main advantage for the distillers yeast may be as much higher alcohol tolerance translating to slightly increased yields rather than a major influence on flavor, but I've been pleased with the flavors from the beer ale yeasts I've used routinely. Thanks for your take, I'll try the bread yeast and get back atcha
My daddy he made whiskey, my granddaddy he did too
We ain't paid no whiskey tax since 1792
You'll just lay there by the juniper while the moon is bright
Watch them just a-filling in the pale moonlight.
- Bob Dylan, "Copper Kettle"

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by rad14701 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:19 pm

wishbone77 wrote:It seems to me as though the main advantage for the distillers yeast may be as much higher alcohol tolerance translating to slightly increased yields rather than a major influence on flavor, but I've been pleased with the flavors from the beer ale yeasts I've used routinely.
That's a false assumption right there... Not sure why you think bread yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, would be any different than other yeasts, probably Saccharomyces cerevisiae, that you've used... There are only a couple different major strains used for fermentation... I have accidentally pushed Fleischmann's Dry Active Bakers Yeast to +19% ABV at least once and had complete attenuation to a SG below 1.000 so it's plenty hardy enough... I've also had it continue fermenting after climbing above 125F during fermentation... Heck, I've made starters and pitched at 115F many times... Give bakers yeast the credit it's due... :thumbup:

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by wishbone77 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 pm

I recognize that we all use S. cerevisiae, however there is great biodiversity in yeasts, including intra-species variability between strains. I understand that the two prominent strains used in Scotland are M type and Mauri Pinnacle, which are apparently popular in the larger distilleries due to fast and complete fermentation, alcohol tolerance, and rapid growth in oxygen-limited environments than the average strain. I was assuming that available distiller's yeast in the US, like Still Spirits, would be similar in that it would be selected out as a more tolerant sub-strain than the standard everyday baking yeast, but that is just an assumption and I haven't come across much to support that.
I like your personal examples, certainly demonstrates the hardy nature of the bread yeast without question.
My daddy he made whiskey, my granddaddy he did too
We ain't paid no whiskey tax since 1792
You'll just lay there by the juniper while the moon is bright
Watch them just a-filling in the pale moonlight.
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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by rad14701 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:21 am

wishbone77 wrote:I like your personal examples, certainly demonstrates the hardy nature of the bread yeast without question.
It's hardy... I just started a sugarhead yesterday using what I believe to be at least 3 year old yeast that's been stored in a jar in the freezer... It's chugging along just fine even though it produced a lot of heat a few hours in...

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by wishbone77 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:53 pm

It's hardy... I just started a sugarhead yesterday using what I believe to be at least 3 year old yeast that's been stored in a jar in the freezer... It's chugging along just fine even though it produced a lot of heat a few hours in..
It sounds like you use the bakers yeast in a variety of settings and situations, but in a perfect world what have you found to be the optimal conditions for using the yeast in terms of temperature at time of pitching and how much yeast to use (does it matter using 1 or 2 or 3 packets from the grocery store)? Any great benefit to using a starter wort with this yeast?

Probably no magic here, but just curious what you've found
My daddy he made whiskey, my granddaddy he did too
We ain't paid no whiskey tax since 1792
You'll just lay there by the juniper while the moon is bright
Watch them just a-filling in the pale moonlight.
- Bob Dylan, "Copper Kettle"

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by rad14701 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:46 pm

wishbone77 wrote:
It's hardy... I just started a sugarhead yesterday using what I believe to be at least 3 year old yeast that's been stored in a jar in the freezer... It's chugging along just fine even though it produced a lot of heat a few hours in..
It sounds like you use the bakers yeast in a variety of settings and situations, but in a perfect world what have you found to be the optimal conditions for using the yeast in terms of temperature at time of pitching and how much yeast to use (does it matter using 1 or 2 or 3 packets from the grocery store)? Any great benefit to using a starter wort with this yeast?

Probably no magic here, but just curious what you've found
I buy a pack of 2 x 1lb vacuum sealed bricks of Fleischmann's at Sam's Club for under $6.00... Far cheaper than buying 3-Packs... As cheap as it is, I pitch generously... And it's the only yeast I use for this hobby... I either follow the directions on rehydrating or proofing, and follow the method described for starters... Wash temperatures are kept in the 70's - 80's...

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by wishbone77 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:34 pm

rad14701 wrote:
wishbone77 wrote:
It's hardy... I just started a sugarhead yesterday using what I believe to be at least 3 year old yeast that's been stored in a jar in the freezer... It's chugging along just fine even though it produced a lot of heat a few hours in..
It sounds like you use the bakers yeast in a variety of settings and situations, but in a perfect world what have you found to be the optimal conditions for using the yeast in terms of temperature at time of pitching and how much yeast to use (does it matter using 1 or 2 or 3 packets from the grocery store)? Any great benefit to using a starter wort with this yeast?

Probably no magic here, but just curious what you've found
I buy a pack of 2 x 1lb vacuum sealed bricks of Fleischmann's at Sam's Club for under $6.00... Far cheaper than buying 3-Packs... As cheap as it is, I pitch generously... And it's the only yeast I use for this hobby... I either follow the directions on rehydrating or proofing, and follow the method described for starters... Wash temperatures are kept in the 70's - 80's...
Thanks Rad14701, this is interesting and helpful info. I'll be looking forward to trying some good old bread yeast out on my next batch. This is a great example of why this forum is so useful, you start with a question, learn a whole bunch about stuff you don't know, and then apply it.
Thanks again
My daddy he made whiskey, my granddaddy he did too
We ain't paid no whiskey tax since 1792
You'll just lay there by the juniper while the moon is bright
Watch them just a-filling in the pale moonlight.
- Bob Dylan, "Copper Kettle"

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Re: Prestige WD yeast - any good?

Post by Halfbaked » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:57 pm

One of the best home made whiskeys i ever drank was made with Presdige WD at 80 degrees. That being said it was an all grain with 1/2 oats and 1/4 rye and 1/4 red wheat in white. Was it yeast?? Don't know but it was damn fine drop. I would not have changed a thing about it. I think the yeast was 20 some or 30 some generations. Id spend the exrtra money and make a culture to drop a big does in but that is just me.

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