Dunder pit problems

These little beasts do all the hard work. Share how to keep 'em happy and working hard.

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dan_buddy
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Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:30 pm

How to I get the right bacteria in my Dunder pit ?
I keep getting something that stinks like paint thinner ( bad )
I have tried three times and all the same results
I am only tying it in five gallon buckets but would like to have a big drum next year
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Tokoroa_Shiner
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by Tokoroa_Shiner » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:47 pm

Unless you can introduce certain bacteria into it yourself. You will only get the ones around your pit. You could try starting it somewhere else to get a different bacteria and then moving it back to where you want it. Or find someone with a good one willing to send you a bottle of the top of theirs. Should contain enough bacteria to inoculate your pit. Keep a bottle if you start fresh to put in the new pit.
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dan_buddy
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:05 am

Could I put a peace of cheese in there to introduce my one bacteria or is there any where online to buy it :)
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LWTCS
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LWTCS » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:31 am

Are you in the States?

dan_buddy wrote:Could I put a peace of cheese in there to introduce my one bacteria or is there any where online to buy it :)
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by hellbilly007 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:39 am

I've read that the desired bacteria for a dunder pit is in soil. Perhaps a small handful of soil added could help. Although I've never heard anyone add the soil to the pit itself I've heard of people digging a hole to store their pit in with the top open.

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LWTCS
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LWTCS » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:08 am

Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:53 am

Thank you very much bys
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bearriver
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by bearriver » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:59 pm

LWTCS wrote:Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
:clap: Good read.

A "starter" from someone else's dunder pit is an interesting idea. If it is/was a viable and available option, it would be something I would pay for when starting my pit.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by Drunken Unicorn » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:15 am

It may prove difficult to remove the bad bacteria from a plastic bucket. I'd suggest getting a new bucket and introducing your own bacteria. Maybe use some yogurt or cheese.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:57 am

LWTCS wrote:Are you in the States?

dan_buddy wrote:Could I put a peace of cheese in there to introduce my one bacteria or is there any where online to buy it :)
No I'm not in the states up in Canada why ?
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LWTCS » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:04 pm

Been so long that I can't remember why I asked that. :crazy:

Only thing I can think of is that having the desirable microflora in your area would help. And if you are not in cane country you are really going to struggle to make your dunder pit behave.
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:15 pm

I'm in Newfoundland on a rock aha nothing but feed corn and blueberrys
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by iwine » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:25 pm

LWTCS wrote:Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That is a damn good read to understand Rum.


Thanks LWTCS

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LG11 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:28 am

Please dont use soil! Two organisms spring to mind One Botulinum makes a toxin that no amount of fermenting or messing will get rid of it, the chance of botulinum toxin in your soil? around 4%, low but not worth it,
Is it a acetone type smell? If so then you probably looking at a Kloeckera yeast species, how old is your pit? Paint stripper/acetone type smells are often from invasion and production that leads pyruvate to go the acetic acid route in metabolism, so its heading off in the direction of vinegar. If its a constant problem in your area then I am tempted to ask about your water supply, paint thinner type smells can also be from domestic supplies with a high iron content, this would good as the bacteria responsible for this is easily out competed, part of me would want to buffer the solution before leaving out for inoculation, I would carefully add sodium bicarb aim for ever so slightly high pH (7.2-7.8). slightest whiff add a little more. I suggest if you try this do two buckets, leave one as it is and treat one, Paint thinners is hard to pin down for me because your in the states and I am aware your paint thinners could be a different chemical from the one I associate with.
So over there is it a sweet type smell or more ascorbic/acid like? for want of a better description is it a acetate/acetone/nail polish type smell or more industrial?

YES YES I am interested in this, Just in case you have Gluconobacter (moderate interest) or a true wild Pichia anomala, yeast (I would fly over and collect in person!!!) Buy it a first class ticket on a plane and sit next to it all the way home. The other answers above will get you out the hole, but I tend to want to find out WTF isnt right.
So if you would be so kind as to humour me a little and try and give a fuller description of the smell please, also did you use domestic untreated water? Are you a gardener? (I am thinking iron test kit for soil). Hmmm I still think high iron in your water but will reserve until I know what paint thinners is over there.
LG

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by iwine » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:55 am

I just started a molasses wash tonight.
I had some aged dunder that I had saved in a 23 liter pail with an air lock (I have fruit fly problem so everything gets locked tight, ), it has been sitting about 3 months. It had an interesting smell almost sweet (it didn’t smell bad) I was going to put into my rum but changed my mind. I took out 4 liters of the aged dunder and I boiled it to make sure everything was dead in it. I let it cool down for about ½ hour. Then I tasted it (I didn’t have the balls to swallow it) just swished it around my mouth. I pick up on a couple of flavors that I kind of liked, BUT there was a slight vinegar taste that scared me,(I make lots of wine Vinegar tastes are BAD BAD BAD) so I didn’t use it. I was doing 40 liters and I thought it was too big of a batch to experiment on. Here is the Pic of my pit.
ps The dunder I used was between the top and bottom layers
Question
Can someone describe what the taste should be? Or have any Ideas if it is supposed to taste that way?
My aged dunder pit
My aged dunder pit

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LG11 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:01 am

Thats highly anaerobic, If it was me and I except others will view differently, I would set up a aquarium pump to go off twice a day for 3-4 mins. You can run the air line through some wash jars first to ensure the air entering the bucket is microbe free (I will do a separate post on this). Vinegar taste gives away alot, the sweet taste is highly likely to be acetone (if the taste was slightly chemical in nature) or more likely Isoamyl Alcohol. Boiling dosnt always kill bacteria by the way.
If you want to mess with it then add 4-5 pints of water (straight from the tap if you want), add a airline as above, wait 4-5 weeks see what it starts smelling like. I have no idea if anyone is interested or not but I am working on some simple to use chemical test kits, these work in a similar way to water test kits you would use in an aquarium. I am working on ones to detect some of the nastier chemicals you can get in a bucket, price wise members here would pay 5% above cost (just to cover time), and I would expect most the test kits to be around the same as aquarium test kits.
I would love a sample of the bottom of that lol.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by firewater69 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:51 pm

I have been keeping my pit in the shed, i topped it off after a run on saturday & brought it inside (keeping it warm / active). I came home from work today to check on it and it was bubbling away, smells yummy. i guess the moldy layer got churned. Has anyone else had this happen?
IMG_20150112_184513.jpg
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by pochine » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:55 am

LWTCS wrote:Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
So what I got from that great document is that we need Lactobacillus
and Propionibacterium species? So where can I get my hands on some.? The local bacteria store?

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by NZChris » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:32 pm

pochine wrote:So what I got from that great document is that we need Lactobacillus
and Propionibacterium species? So where can I get my hands on some.? The local bacteria store?
Cheese cultures, I have them in my freezer for cheese making. A slice of Swiss cheese might do for a starter.

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by DAD300 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:31 pm

pochine...why yes you can.

You can buy active lactobacillus at the health food store in capsules meant for humans.
lacto.jpg
lacto.jpg (3.84 KiB) Viewed 2579 times
I broke a few into the top of a ferment and puff...it was infected. The top was covered in a day.

They have Propionibacterium also, but it is priceyyyyyy.

You might even find a probiotic with both in the same capsule.
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by pochine » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:08 pm

DAD300 wrote:pochine...why yes you can.

You can buy active lactobacillus at the health food store in capsules meant for humans.
lacto.jpg
I broke a few into the top of a ferment and puff...it was infected. The top was covered in a day.

They have Propionibacterium also, but it is priceyyyyyy.

You might even find a probiotic with both in the same capsule.

Cheers DAD,

Looks like I'm going to infect my dunder soon. :crazy:

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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by firewater69 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:28 pm

Im totally hooked on dunder, i love the flavors it gives. I have fed mine chunks of raw pinapple as well as fresh dunder, gonna feed it a banana next. im guessing the action im seeing is because i just topped it off.
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Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LG11 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:12 pm

You can also order bacteria from educational supplier companies, be careful and read up first on anything you add. Natural cultures from organic material you add such as fruit are always best because they find a balance, or you need to go totally the other way and precisely control what you put in. Yes some get away with adhoc but I am talking about being sure its a winner time after time, also some think that the capsules they add are doing something.............. Many times you add a dried capsule and I am afraid it does zero, the main problem you run into normally is what is called critical competition level. You shouldnt ever really have a single bacteria but this can happen if you add enough of one to out compete everything else.
The reason why so many have success just throwing this and that in is because it finds its own level, leave most pits long enough and they should come right eventually. Obviously in industry you cant run things this way,in times past however they did this and to many that was the attraction in knowing each batch was different (Look at single cask single malt scotch whiskey for example).
Pits are a bit of a dark art, they can take a while to get the hang of and I dont suggest just tasting things without understanding possible risks involved, I have seen alot of test reports that have sent shivers down my spine. The advantage doing things on a hobby scale is your exposure is fairly limited (in most cases).
LG

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