Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

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Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby DrMalt » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:56 am

Hello friends,

I recently purchased a new yeast. I have not seen any info or feedback on it yet so I feel like I should give it a fair trial to see if it is worth the extra cost.

The yeast is Whitestar D-802 NGS Sugar from http://www.liquorquik.com/whitestar-d802-ngs-sugar/

This is supposed to be a neutral yeast specific for sugar washes that has a high fermentation gravity range.

I typically do sugarhead washes and use bakers yeast with nutrients. My gravities are always in the potential alc range of 7.5 to 8.5 % alc/vol. I typically strip the wash then reflux to 94% abv. collecting ~70% of the alcohol as neutral spirit.

This new yeast proposes to give me a 12% wash at the low end of it's range so I am hoping that means it does so with the same nutrient level I use now. If so that would mean a greater yield for each run with the same or greater recovery percentage as neutral spirit.

Trying to make bakers yeast ferment sugar above 8% increases stress on the yeast causing more off flavors and less hearts percentage. Adding more nutrient has the same effect so it becomes a tail chasing exercise.

I am going to do a trial with D-802 to see if it is a viable alternative. If anyone has feedback on it already I would love to hear it. I am also looking for suggestions on how to test it. For now I am thinking of a 12 - 14% potential alc/vol wash with 5 or 6 different nutrient levels to see if it ferments any better than my regular wash.

Improvements to measure would be fermentation time, attenuation, clearing, and finally percentage of hearts recovered. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

I hope to start this trial in the new year so some discussion time is available.

Regards,
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby Shine0n » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:44 pm

I'll go! Lol
To me it seems like another gimmicky sales pitch but I see where you're coming from in trying to increase the yield, now here comes the best part... DON'T BUY IT!!!

DADY- DRY ACTIVE DISTILLERS YEAST, It has a high og tolerance, it ferments dry with the additional nutes needed for plain sugar washes, it's very neutral so there's no off flavors, it does the job!!!
Not meaning to derail your intended purpose and I think it may be a good yeast and I'll patiently wait for your results after your experiment, but I'll add this in closing... I pay 7$ for DADY, it comes in a 1lb sachet and will last a very long time, 1 leveled teaspoon per 5 gallons so 1 lb will last quite some while and will get you that 12% you seek without off flavors.
I'm saying all this with a smile so please take no offense during the reading, I think that product like many of theirs is not the best option, it might be good it may not be good and if your willing to try it I'll definitely look forward to your results but if it doesn't live up to your expectations... give the DADY a try.

Good luck and report back with your findings,
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby Kegg_jam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:54 pm

+1

DADY
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby shadylane » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:03 pm

@ DrMalt
I like experiments :thumbup:
Keep us posted
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby StillerBoy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:17 pm

So if your are just getting 7.5 to 8.5% abv from your sugar wash, then you are using about 6-7 lbs of sugar.. up the sugar to 10 - 11 lbs, and the abv will move to about 10 - 11% abv.. and that with baker's yeast.. and bakers will work up to 15 - 16% abv on 15 lbs of sugar..

So the question become why the extra money on yeast.. yeah you could try something new, if it was favour you were after.. but higher abv, keep your money, and invest it in new equipment..

Mars
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby Reverend Newer » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:29 pm

I'd recommend Superstart™ yeast from Lallemand Biofuels & Distilled Spirits. Mine came in a 1 lb. 2 oz. block and says "product of Denmark". (beware of many people advertising "Superstart yeast" that ends up arriving as Red Star DADY)

Says pitch at 90F to 105F (30C to 40C), I recommend 105F. Ends up really clean and productive on sugar plus eats grain mashes well enough to impress me.

Says use 1 to 2 lbs. per 1000 US gallons (10 to 25 grams per hectoliter)


Test it out if you get the chance, think yule like it. Weuu!
Last edited by Reverend Newer on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby HDNB » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:38 pm

i have been using baker's and DADY

i got my hands on some of this (the 917) http://ferm-solutions.net/product-categ ... hol-yeast/
it's strong and fast as hell. big difference. tastes good too.

i never got enough to really experiment with but it's great you are considering doing some. i hope you'll post up what you learn.
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Re: Suggestions for a yeast trial with new yeast.

Postby DrMalt » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:59 pm

StillerBoy wrote:So if your are just getting 7.5 to 8.5% abv from your sugar wash, then you are using about 6-7 lbs of sugar.. up the sugar to 10 - 11 lbs, and the abv will move to about 10 - 11% abv.. and that with baker's yeast.. and bakers will work up to 15 - 16% abv on 15 lbs of sugar..

So the question become why the extra money on yeast.. yeah you could try something new, if it was favour you were after.. but higher abv, keep your money, and invest it in new equipment..

Mars


Thanks for the reply StillerBoy and others. I totally get how to make more alcohol but it's quality we strive for isn't it? And I think new equipment is going to cost a lot more than bumping the yeast cost by a couple bucks per batch... and it really isn't going to get me anything I'm not getting now other than volume which has nothing to do with what I am trying to accomplish here.

Washes that are higher than 8% ABV stress bakers yeast and DADY as well. That being said, from what I've read so far DADY does what it should in a grain based ferment where cogeners may be desired. The stress has a lot of side effects that I have found to be bad for my taste in neutral from sugar however.
#1. High specific gravity really slows down the ferment. (fine for most, but my window of opportunity is 13 days, start to finish)
#2. Higher alcohol levels also cause the yeast to produce a lot of higher alcohols and fusel oils that come off as a greater percentage of heads and tails.
#3. High temps just increase everything wrong with #1 and #2 above, however I would like to try this new yeast at elevated temps too but that would be another variable I don't intend to introduce in the first run.

The extra non-hearts alcohols and time in fermentation isn't worth producing and then throwing out, so I currently keep the ABV at 8% where I get the most neutral heart percentage in a relatively fast ferment with plain old bakers yeast. It's been working great for me. Friends who are privileged enough to get to share it with me say its the best.

I hope this yeast can push that 12% with the same ratio of clean hearts to heads and tails and a fast ferment as well. We will see once I get it going. It would be nice to be able to show some kind of improvement in my distillation. It's been a while.

Thanks for everyones thoughts and comments so far. Makes me think and helps to narrow the field on what and how to test this yeast. Much appreciated.
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