Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

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WIski
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Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by WIski »

Short, not real detailed or informative, but entertaining.

http://whiskyadvocate.com/yeast-impacts-flavor-bourbon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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fizzix
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by fizzix »

Never gave much credence to different yeasts until I started brewing beer. It's a religion in that realm.
That led me to recently start fermenting Booner's (nice & cheap & easily repeatable) with different yeast I have on hand.
I've just started, so have no firm impressions*. But the idea is to compare and decide whether to blend, or to pick an outstanding best for barreling.
EC-1118 is currently bubbling in the bull pen. It's a cooler ferment, so that is an impending factor too.

Thanks for the video. It's outright encouraging for my current endeavor.

*Not much difference -if any- so far between baker's yeast and DADY. More exotic yeasts to come.
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by durty_dunderpants »

i been brewing ale long enough to worship at the church of the yeast.. :D

i've made rum with both bread yeast and selected ale yeast slurries. difference in distillate is night or day in favour of the ale yeasts. that's not to say that a more experienced distiller than me can't make a better drink than me with bread yeast at all, just that paying attention to and managing the yeast does make a noticeable and worthwhile difference to the end product. but then i imagine 20% turbo yeast washes have already taught many that lesson on the other end of the spectrum!!
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Good video...of course their not going to tell us what yeast strains they use...this just confirms what we've been saying here on HD for over a year now...the yeast is a very very important contributor to the flavor profile, in Single malts, Bourbons, Rum and brandy...what strains produce what esters? That's what we're working on.
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der wo
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by der wo »

In a good discussion someone has to play the one with a contrary opinion.

Here the interview on esters...
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68005&p=7511906
...in the parts "Yeast and Esters" and "Yeast and more"
Dr. Patrick Heist (is the co-owner and Chief Scientific Officer for Ferm Solutions, Inc. and Wilderness Trail Distillery. Ferm Solutions provides yeast and fermentation expertise to distilleries all over the world and is housed at the state-of-the-art, Wilderness Trail Distillery) says, yeast selection is a very minor part in spirits production (different from wine or beer production) and the yeast strains used in spirits are all very similar. Bacterial contamination beginning from the grain plantation ending in the still plays all in all a much more important role.

I mention this, because it matches with my own experience. I was always dissapointed when spending money on a special yeast and realizing that in the end it's not really tasteable, at least compared to all the other parameters variations, which can change the taste a lot.

When a Whisky company tells you they use a unique yeast strain, I think it's 99% marketing. BTW, if you ask them then, if their water, grain, mill, mashtun, fermenter, still, cuts, barrel etc are also unique, they will say oh yeah, our water, grain, mill... are all very unique too.
So if that's true and everything is unique, how important can a unique yeast strain be? Or is it unique unique? Or triple unique? Or the grain, mill etc only half unique?
And also all the other distilleries claim, their yeast, water, grain etc are very unique. What a value does this uniqueness have, if everything from everyone is unique? Only perhaps it's an argument, that every Bourbon tastes different. But this is carrying owls to Athens in a distillers forum.
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by ShineRunner »

Full disclosure: didn’t watch the video yet. But, I’m inclined to agree with der wo here. He said basically everything I was thinking about marketing hype.

That said, I’m really interested in your experiment fizzix. I was planning something like this before, but just ran out of time and had to get drinking stock built up. I think you may notice some subtle differences in white, but I would guess most differences will be slight nuance by the time it ages on oak. Hope you include that in your test! Looking forward to hearing results.

SR
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by kiwi Bruce »

For those who haven't seen it...the head Honcho at 4 Roses..presents four bottles of their "Top shelf" product that he claims have EXACTLY the same grain bill, and gives the proportions. The milling, mashing and fermenting are all done EXACTLY the same...the difference is the yeast used for each style, and the taster confirms they are indeed very different from each other. We can call BS on this, from our own experience, it is good marketing...but I tend to agree with him. Example...before I started using Bakers I was using a British Pale Ale yeast ( don't have my book in front of me for the type number) but it was noticeable immediately that bakers had more "character" than the pale ale yeast. (immediately...as in white and speed aged on bourbon oak) I'm going to try some of the other "exotic" yeasts, but my "Brew cave" has to warm up a bit first. I can tell you after they're "done and run" what they are like as "dogs" and around December what there like on the oak. If my "speed aging" works, I am ever hopeful, maybe by the 4th of July. I'm working on an "Aging raft" to float 1/2 gal Ball jars...with a T-Pee oak stave... in a 5 gal bucket of very warm water, (runaway aquarium heater) that is being rocked by an aquarium air pump 24/7, under a UV lamp. I'll post the result in a new tread. But I think the idea is very promising.
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jon1163
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by jon1163 »

fizzix wrote:

*Not much difference -if any- so far between baker's yeast and DADY. More exotic yeasts to come.
Are you running a pot or a pot and Thumper? And are you including the yeast and sludge in with your batches when you distill?
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Mike6090
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by Mike6090 »

When running a potstill I could see there is significant flavor profile differences between yeast strains. There can’t help but be because their smells carry over. Would I use a Belgian or farmhouse? Probably not but makers mark and others ferment in large open air wooden vats that take advantage of the local yeasts, Poland and other “contaminants” to flavor the spirit.
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iwine
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by iwine »

using multiple yeasts it's something that I've been considering for quite a while. I'm a dark rum drinker I'm trying to get the Molasses to pop. going to have to do some research on yeast. I guess I'm going to have to do some multiple batches side-by-side to test yeast. thanks for the video
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Re: Four Roses Video on Yeast Affect on Flavor

Post by Big Stogie »

I spoke to Dr. heist on the phone and he told me his 048 yeast will give a more floral element to whiskey than his 927 that I had been using so I got some to try. He has multiple strains available and one for neutral so this seems very conterdictory to me. The very fact that Turbo tastes bad seems to imply that yeast does indeed make a difference
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