Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

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distiller_dresden
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Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Hi community!

I've been at this for 4 months now and I'm getting to where I would like to be able to save my yeast strains after I drain a wash out of the fermenter, get them reproducing, then tube or jar them up and stick them in the fridge to be duplicated and reused/doubled so I can have several strains of yeast on hand for later use.

I read a comment that you can collect yeast/wash from the second day of your ferment (assume this is just wash from the ferment?) and make a starter from that. From searching I've gathered I could basically dilute this like so:

-sterilize a pint jar, then add some slurry yeast from the bottom of my fermenter (a first gen preferably), then add 16 oz distilled water, stir in 2 tblsp of DME, and cover the jar with foil loosely
-with the sterilized cap, place it on the jar 3-4x a day and shake the jar to aerate (keeping the solution oxygenated so the yeast will reproduce), then replace the loose foil
-after a day or two the yeast should have reproduced mightily, refrigerate and allow to settle, draining off some of the excess clear liquid
-should now have one new yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch

Does this 'gel' with logic, and if it does, could I then 'split' the finished starter and make a couple more from it?
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

If I've got a yeast I particularly like, and would like to save, I bottle just like a beer...it'll keep for over a year.
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by distiller_dresden »

How do you do that kB, I've not beered before. You mean save the mash in a bottle with a CO2 tab and cap it?
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

CK this guy out...he has a string of v-good youtube vids on saving yeasts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zluMP ... XE&index=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by Bushman »

Probably wouldn't hurt to have a thread dedicated to yeast starters, storing, and using....anyone interested in doing a write up?
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Bushman, that is EXACTLY what I am hoping will get started and hopefully born, and maybe stickied!

I've seen some great stuff out there, but I don't want to do test tubes and alcohol in my freezer, I really would rather do stuff in jars (that we ALL have) in my fridge and utilizing yeast beds from after a first time wash, when that yeast is alive but 'sleeping' and hasn't really had a chance to mutate or anything. Perfect time to harvest and then make batches of starters. That's what I'm hoping my 'method' I kind of researched and hacked together and posted above might be... But I'm waiting for some 'expertise' because I KNOW there is expertise on yeast, and there are freaking Wile E. Coyote yeast lords around here with jars or whatever in their refrigerators with masking tape on them and dates and names. There should totally be a YEAST BANK thread on the home distiller board.
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cede
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by cede »

You have many ways to save yeast.
I used to have them dried or freezed depending what I wanted to do. I stopped brewing a bit but still have the bank in the freezer.
Dry to swap by mail, freeze to store them longer.
For doing this, I washed yeast and then put them in slant tubes, in a lunch box with freeze packs. Freeze packs and lunch box are here to limit temp variation and just in case we run out of electricity.
From my bookmarks:
https://eurekabrewing.wordpress.com/201 ... roduction/
https://bkyeast.wordpress.com/2012/12/1 ... ast-ranch/
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by distiller_dresden »

cede this is fantastic info I've been poring over, thanks!

quick question: will my nasty/dirty/lazy method using first gen sludge from bottom of my fermenter work to keep a maybe 6 months viable yeast and propagate starters? posting below again for reference:
-sterilize a pint jar, then add some slurry yeast from the bottom of my fermenter (a first gen preferably), then add 16 oz distilled water, stir in 2 tblsp of DME, and cover the jar with foil loosely
-with the sterilized cap, place it on the jar 3-4x a day and shake the jar to aerate (keeping the solution oxygenated so the yeast will reproduce), then replace the loose foil
-after a day or two the yeast should have reproduced mightily, refrigerate and allow to settle, draining off some of the excess clear liquid
-should now have one new yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by Twisted Brick »

distiller_dresden wrote:
quick question: will my nasty/dirty/lazy method using first gen sludge from bottom of my fermenter work to keep a maybe 6 months viable yeast and propagate starters?
You can probably get away with lazy technique for bit, but eventually this will invite infection and off-flavors. Remember, for a time, a large ferment is a giant trap for bacteria and difficult to control.

I’ve had good luck making a gallon starter from a stovetop mash that mirrors my main mash grain bill. After converting the mini-mash with enzymes overnight, I strain, boil to sterilize, then force cool. I add this to a quart of sterilized wort (from the previous stovetop mash) that has been innoculated (24-36 hrs) with reserved yeast. Once my main mash (12 gal) has converted and cooled, I pitch the entire gallon, reserving ~75ml of concentrated yeast from the bottom of the jug. This I wash and reserve in the fridge until the next batch. Over the entire process, strict sanitation and sterilization practices are observed.

So far so good, knock on wood. I have been using a starter from the same original packet of S-04 for 8 consecutive batches over 3 months getting clean, consistent performance out of each batch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the links, Cede.
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I love this idea and am going to start researching how to set up for cultivating yeast banks. I like to use as much variety as possible with my yeasts in a batch that ultimately blend together. For instance, I may do a batch of HBB which ends up being comprided of six+ different mash ferments. I’ll use different yeast on each ferment and this would go a long way towards some savings as those packets add up.

I see a microscope and some sterile protocols in my future :)

Cheers!
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by cede »

I harvest some yeast from slurry, and wash it, but I would not go further than 5th generation.
Well, I never tried either, but looks like yeast might change profile as I heard.
Twisted Brick at 8th generation if you do not taste changes, you're good :)
I had so many 1st and 2nd generations that I did not need to go further either.

Working with yeast you have to be clean, and work close to an open flame as it will eradicate most of the nasties in a certain range. It's lab basics. I use a butane portable stove, but an alcohol lamp is said to work well too.

For propagation, I think a stirring plate and a few flasks are mandatory + some DME and yeast nutrients to feed the yeast.
My stirring plate is made from a plastic box with a fan and 2 strong magnets and a tattoo gun power supply that I had on hands.... long story :)

Jonny a microscope if a wonderful thing to have too when you want to have a look closer to yeast cells :)
Pair your microscope with a Malassez cell and a tally counter and you'll be able to determine easily your yeast count.
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by Twisted Brick »

cede wrote: Working with yeast you have to be clean, and work close to an open flame as it will eradicate most of the nasties in a certain range. It's lab basics. I use a butane portable stove, but an alcohol lamp is said to work well too.

For propagation, I think a stirring plate and a few flasks are mandatory + some DME and yeast nutrients to feed the yeast.
My stirring plate is made from a plastic box with a fan and 2 strong magnets and a tattoo gun power supply that I had on hands.... long story :)

Jonny a microscope if a wonderful thing to have too when you want to have a look closer to yeast cells :)
Pair your microscope with a Malassez cell and a tally counter and you'll be able to determine easily your yeast count.
Never thought about an alcohol lamp. I've been using flat cotton 'disks' from Target with isopropyl alcohol to clean my flask, jug, ss funnel (won't use plastic cuz it scratches) and airlock.

Been looking for a PC fan to make a stir plate...
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by zapata »

I wouldn't harvest from a wash if you plan on saving it for a while, we all know washes are far from sterile, it's not the same as saving a yeast cake from a beer. Sure you can do it, but I only do it for immediate pitching, not saving.

My standard easy protocol with a new yeast is to make a 1 gallon yeast starter. 1.040 with malt extract, and usually some yeast nutes. I have a 1.5 gallon jug I do this in. Boil the starter wort, preheat the jug, dump in the wort and use a foam plug filter in the jug neck to keep it sterile. I have a stir plate so I dont need to aereate, just cool right in the jug. You can buy foam plugs for a few bucks from most HBS, or stuff the neck with a wad of poly quilting you can get at walmart. If you dont have a stir plate, after the wort is cool, remove the filter, place a sanitized cap and shake shake shake before pitching and replacing the plug.

If I'm super lazy, I don't even settle it out or anything, just divide it between sanitized jars and fridge it. Usually though it's easier on fridge space to let it settle, and divide the yeast amongst much smaller jars, I like half pints. Baby food jars take up even less space. You can divide the sludge between a dozen half pints, top off with boiled, cooled water, and into the fridge with them. Now you have a dozen jars from your single pack, each easily kicks off a new starter when you're ready to brew/mash. Good in the fridge for a long time, I dunno, at least a year. And since they are sterile, you can either use the next starter for a batch, or for another batch of jars, ad infinitum. Theoretically you could easily make a few hundred starters from one yeast pack, though to be honest I usually end losing the culture at some point. No worries, I save about 90% of yeast costs, I don't really care if I buy a strain a few times over the years.
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by cede »

Twisted Brick wrote: Never thought about an alcohol lamp. I've been using flat cotton 'disks' from Target with isopropyl alcohol to clean my flask, jug, ss funnel (won't use plastic cuz it scratches) and airlock.
Been looking for a PC fan to make a stir plate...
I wasn't talking about cleaning the instruments with a flame but you're close :) You can clean using alcohol and then sterilize with the flame passing them quickly in the flame.
Standard technique is to clean the bench using alcohol 70% and work around a flame because of the draft it will cause, nasties will have hard time trying to fall into your stuff.
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by Twisted Brick »

cede wrote:
I wasn't talking about cleaning the instruments with a flame but you're close :) You can clean using alcohol and then sterilize with the flame passing them quickly in the flame.
Standard technique is to clean the bench using alcohol 70% and work around a flame because of the draft it will cause, nasties will have hard time trying to fall into your stuff.

Nice! I see Amazon has an alcohol burner with metal cap.....
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by zapata »

Standard technique is to clean the bench using alcohol 70% and work around a flame because of the draft it will cause, nasties will have hard time trying to fall into your stuff.
A similar technique I've seen advocated for other kinds of sterile work in a home environment is to pull out the oven rack and use it as a work space while the oven is on low. The warm rising air from the oven supposedly keeps anything from falling into your work.

Honestly, I think if you are worried about that, it's easy enough and more effective to build a glove box. An old sterilite container, some plastic wrap, duct tape and rubber gloves will do for a rarely used piece.

But this might all be more than is needed. I have a an actual hepa filtered laminar flow hood at my disposal, suitable for truly sterile work. Yet I do almost all of my yeast culturing on my kitchen counter with only beer level sanitation practices. Seems sufficient to me.
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Re: Starting up a 'yeast' bank - how?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Since I started I just wanted to chime in and thank all who've commented so far and cross fingers for more more more because this is awesome; I hope we keep going and eventually it's stickied because it's kind of silly, and you think about it, unheard of that our home distiller website doesn't have a sticky information post about cultivating yeast and various suggest/tested methods. This is a huge part of the hobby for people who don't want to buy every single pitch of yeast they use for a ferment.

Keep going y'all, and I love all the information here so far. I've learned a lot already!

It would be amazing if down the road at some point we even had a post/sticky where we could utilize this information we're learning to have a yeast TRADING bank to exchange samples between users, just drop in the fed ex/USPS/UPS/DHL whatever and a couple days wait. This is the dream...
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