EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

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fizzix
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EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

I've been harvesting my beer yeasts (Nottingham and US-05), and EC-1118, and baker's yeast just for the harvesting experience and began using them in my latest rounds of Birdwatcher's for the neutral exposure.
(Plus, the gin MUST go on!)

These yeasts have been harvested in separate trials in a sanitized 1000ml flask with 1/2 cup dried malt extract on a stir plate.
After a week to 10 days the sample is cold crashed for 24 hours minimum. The beer is drawn off, leaving about 200ml of trub/yeast to be warmed to room temperature
and pitched (3 equal parts) into 3 six-gallon Birdwatcher's buckets.

The baker's yeast is as expected: FAST ferment (4~5 days) and minimal flavor impact.

The EC-1118, Nottingham, and US-05 are s-l-o-w and steady ferments throughout ~10 days. Their flavor profiles are all floral, with Nottingham having a taste as a good perfume smells.
Notice I didn't say TASTES like perfume, just an added floral overtone beyond the others.

The end of the yeast trials being reached, the Birdwatcher's is then refluxed and carbon filtered as usual to attain a good neutrality.

This confirms baker's yeast being the most efficient and flavor-free. Perfect for 90% of what we do.
But if you're after a more champagne or floral note to what you're making and have the extra week to let it ferment, go with the Nottingham.

I hope these results from fizzix home labs help with your next floral adventure.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by StillerBoy »

Thanks fizzix for the write up..

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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by Wild Bill »

I am a big fan of us-05 for beer making but have not tried it yet for spirits as bakers yeast has done me fine so far. I have read many on here say that us-05 throws esters flavors when the product is distilled. This certainly contradicts my experience with it for beer as it is one of the cleaner yeasts out there. I am not sure if it is a higher ferment temp related thing or distilling strips other things and highlights the esters? I always ferment us-05 at 63 degrees F. in for beer. It is slow and steady compared to bakers yeast and I would let it go at least two weeks and three would be better yet as I think the yeast does some housecleaning even after reaching terminal gravity.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Excellent notes and thank you Fizzix!

I'll enjoy adding some Nottingham to my yeasties buffet on my next projects.

Cheers,
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

Wild Bill wrote:I am a big fan of us-05 for beer making but have not tried it yet for spirits as bakers yeast has done me fine so far. I have read many on here say that us-05 throws esters flavors when the product is distilled. This certainly contradicts my experience with it for beer as it is one of the cleaner yeasts out there. I am not sure if it is a higher ferment temp related thing or distilling strips other things and highlights the esters? I always ferment us-05 at 63 degrees F. in for beer. It is slow and steady compared to bakers yeast and I would let it go at least two weeks and three would be better yet as I think the yeast does some housecleaning even after reaching terminal gravity.
The 3-week beer ferment is also what I do at around 65° for US-05 and Nottingham, as I believe in that 3rd week "clean up" as well.
I didn't detect anything funky in the 2-week Birdwatcher's ferments. Perhaps refluxing was responsible for this.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by durty_dunderpants »

fizzix wrote: This confirms baker's yeast being the most efficient and flavor-free. Perfect for 90% of what we do.
speak for yourself mate!! :twisted:

but seriously.. as a yeastfreak i always love to read posts with experiences and comparisms so thanks for sharing! so far i actually have found us05 to be a lot smoother/cleaner than bakers yeast (both at their supposed optimum temperatures) but still plenty of experimenting to do and possibly(/probably?) wash dependent.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

durty_dunderpants wrote:
fizzix wrote: This confirms baker's yeast being the most efficient and flavor-free. Perfect for 90% of what we do.
speak for yourself mate!! :twisted:

but seriously.. as a yeastfreak i always love to read posts with experiences and comparisms so thanks for sharing! so far i actually have found us05 to be a lot smoother/cleaner than bakers yeast (both at their supposed optimum temperatures) but still plenty of experimenting to do and possibly(/probably?) wash dependent.
Hey durty, how's this?: Perfect for 90% of what 90% of us do.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by butterpants »

I think corn whiskey needs a US-05/USW-6 type yeast. I've messed around a bit in the last year with a bunch of things from English to Scottish to Bread to DADY and the best end product and easiest cuts have been with US-05 or USW-06 @68F (which I think are genetically very similar).

No single malt experiments yet (next year) and my rum project is only 40 gallons of wash underway but think I'm sticking with Red Star Bakers Yeast @82F.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by bitter »

I find Nottingham pretty fast sometimes done in 3 days at about 60f.

US05 is slower.. fermentation may be done but it will take time for Flocculation

Give Kveik a try.. it like upto about 95 to 100F depending on the strain and ferments in less that 2-3 days. It also has good Flocculation. Voss for example might give some orange esters.. could be nice in certain beers.

One think about yeast is most beer yeast are designed to eat up grain sugars... not sugar. This might be why you are finding them slower for plain old sugar washes. Also what gravity are you using compare a 1.050 to a 1.080 with same yeast will result in high gravity taking longer.

B
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

bitter wrote:I find Nottingham pretty fast sometimes done in 3 days at about 60f.

US05 is slower.. fermentation may be done but it will take time for Flocculation

Give Kveik a try.. it like upto about 95 to 100F depending on the strain and ferments in less that 2-3 days. It also has good Flocculation. Voss for example might give some orange esters.. could be nice in certain beers.

One think about yeast is most beer yeast are designed to eat up grain sugars... not sugar. This might be why you are finding them slower for plain old sugar washes. Also what gravity are you using compare a 1.050 to a 1.080 with same yeast will result in high gravity taking longer.

B
That's a good point about grain sugar, but I've been finding my all-grain beer extremely slow as well with Notty and US-05. (around 65°F)
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by bitter »

are you pitching enough? With Notty, I blow the tops at 59f and have to use blow off tubes. I do pitch 2 packs per 6 gallons though.

Liquid yeast I do the same or make a big starter. Also as you most likely know good air-ation to allow the yeast to grow.

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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

bitter wrote:are you pitching enough? With Notty, I blow the tops at 59f and have to use blow off tubes. I do pitch 2 packs per 6 gallons though.

Liquid yeast I do the same or make a big starter. Also as you most likely know good air-ation to allow the yeast to grow.

B
Two packs for ~6 gallons. Re-hydrated. Thorough aeration.
I'm certainly not unhappy with what I'm getting.
It's never a tornado of activity for me though. More like the tortoise that wins the race.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by bitter »

yeah Notty and Us04 is pretty clean
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by Wild Bill »

Again I have not used S-04 in a spirit ferment yet but quit using it for beer as it is an estery mess. It seems that from the reading I have done here it is clean and us-05 throws some interesting flavors in spirit ferments. This is just the opposite for beer. This is a very interesting phenomena. I will have to try both and see for myself.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by Scottish auld balrog »

Balrog sends some smoke signals, semaphore and morse code calling the Fizzix home labs research centre.

Great work on the data on these yeasts :thumbup: , the US-05 research has peaked the balrog's interest.
About to pitch some onto a very basic cereal brew, for going into the magical fire water making device at the bottom of the whisky well, not for beer though. Any advice you could share please about it, any pitfalls to avoid with it, any advice gratefully received.
Three weeks should cover the time required to brew it for magical device processing, or would longer be any better, just an air still so some flavours might pass through with it.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

Scottish auld balrog wrote:Balrog sends some smoke signals, semaphore and morse code calling the Fizzix home labs research centre.

Great work on the data on these yeasts :thumbup: , the US-05 research has peaked the balrog's interest.
About to pitch some onto a very basic cereal brew, for going into the magical fire water making device at the bottom of the whisky well, not for beer though. Any advice you could share please about it, any pitfalls to avoid with it, any advice gratefully received.
Three weeks should cover the time required to brew it for magical device processing, or would longer be any better, just an air still so some flavours might pass through with it.
SAB
All I can do is repeat "be patient with it." No need to let it sit any longer than when the hydrometer says it's finished. That time extension is good for beer, but not necessary for the balrog's adventure.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by Scottish auld balrog »

fizzix wrote:
Scottish auld balrog wrote:Balrog sends some smoke signals, semaphore and morse code calling the Fizzix home labs research centre.

Great work on the data on these yeasts :thumbup: , the US-05 research has peaked the balrog's interest.
About to pitch some onto a very basic cereal brew, for going into the magical fire water making device at the bottom of the whisky well, not for beer though. Any advice you could share please about it, any pitfalls to avoid with it, any advice gratefully received.
Three weeks should cover the time required to brew it for magical device processing, or would longer be any better, just an air still so some flavours might pass through with it.
SAB
All I can do is repeat "be patient with it." No need to let it sit any longer than when the hydrometer says it's finished. That time extension is good for beer, but not necessary for the balrog's adventure.
Cheers Fizzix :thumbup: , one shall be patient and listen to what the hydrometer says.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by fizzix »

To add to this thread, I've been harvesting various Wyeast styles from the beers I've been making,
Boil and cool 1/2 cup of light DMS, a flake of B-complex vitamin, and a tiny dash of DAP, and put that
with about 100ml of Wyeast on a stir plate.
Spin it for a day past kreusening, and use it in a grain ferment.

I was skeptical there'd be a difference, but the Wyeasts (independent of styles) make the grain
from the spout a little bit fuller and some degree less "dull" than the bakers yeast controls.
I wouldn't say a sweeter grain, just a degree, well, fuller.
They are as fast as bakers, so no extra waiting around, too.

Anyone else doing this?
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by still_stirrin »

fizzix wrote:To add to this thread...I was skeptical there'd be a difference, but the Wyeasts (independent of styles) make the grain from the spout a little bit fuller...They are as fast as bakers...too.

Anyone else doing this?
Well, there’s a saying, “smoke ‘em if you’ve got ‘em”.

If you have Wyeast slurries available, of course...use them. Just know that the liquid cultures are a little more expensive to buy and their shelf life is somewhat more limited than dry yeasts. And baker’s (bread) yeast is usually as convenient as the nearest grocery store.

As a beer brewer, we aim for distinct styles of products from the yeast, so culture is paramount. When distilling, on the other hand, many of the subtle nuances of the yeast byproducts are left behind in the boiler. Still, if you can manage liquid cultures then the opportunities abound.

I believe in keeping liquid cultures running beyond the simple “one and done” beer as well, but my rigors of management are less stringent than yours.

Good job. Keep up the good work.
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Re: EC-1118, Nottingham and Safale US-05 = SLOW; Floral

Post by shadylane »

I wouldn't call Nottingham slow
Based on my limited experience, and bad habits :lol:
Around 80f - 27c bakers and Nottingham ferments at the same speed.
When the temp drops, bakers slows down more and wants to stall
The Nottingham slows down also, yet keeps going
At higher temps the Notty is a little slower and more neutrul than bakers
Edited:
This was based on a mash, not a sugar wash
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