Amylase enzyme......please help!!

[Red]

I'm using a sweet Mash recipe that requires this enzyme to be put into it. the directions say it should take a couple of hours for this enzyme to convert the starches into sugars. I've been sitting here for about three and a half hours and it still hasn't converted. I kept it above 152 degrees Fahrenheit for quite some time. I'm just stumped at this point

[acfixer69]

You will need to provide a detailed recipe for anyone to know what you did or most likely didn't do.

[Red]

I took 3 lb of the combined grains. It had corn, barley, Rye and some oats. Brought it up to a hundred and seventy-three degrees as the instructions said. I actually happen to go over a hundred and seventy-three degrees for period of time like 180 185 for a while before I caught it. I let that sit until the grains got soft. I then let it cool to 162 degrees Fahrenheit. I added the amylase enzyme and kept the temperature not any lower than 152 degrees for 2 hours. It never converted the starches to sugars in that time. I used the iodine test in small amounts. I've decided to just let it sit overnight to see if the conversion takes longer than the time suggested on the instructions..
Any possible help would be awesome.

[fizzix]

Had you cooked for very long? Generally corn must cook for at least 60 minutes to release the starches.
90 minutes would be sweet. And actually the hotter the better.

[Red]

To be honest, I don't believe I cooked it that long before adding the enzyme. However, after the enzyme was added, it did cook for quite some time. With that being said, if the starches aren't converted by the morning, do I recook the corn? Heat back up then add the enzyme again or scrap it and start fresh?

[Skipper1953]

How finely ground/crushed were the grains that you cooked for well over two hours at over 162°? Telling us you cooked them until they were soft kinda sounds like you cooked them whole. You could have gone up to 190°+ and possibly had better conversion.
It is possible that the enzymes were denatured if they were added and/or kept over 160° for very long. When mashing for distillers beer, you could hold at a temperature lower than 152°. Somewhere around 145° would be fine.

[shadylane]

Here's the Alpha and Gluco enzymes I use. Follow the instructions and you can't fail
https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=pr ... ry&path=33" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Red]

All of the grains were cracked, ground and milled.

[Red]

Should I just do away with this one and start another. If I could salvage this it would be great. If I can't , then it's just another step in my education.

[fizzix]

Different enzymes work at different temperatures depending on dry, liquid, and brand.
But most definitely they are denatured and destroyed at cooking temperature.

I'd recommend a start over as if you'd done nothing yet. Don't toss it!
An easy way I learned here so as not to scorch, is to boil enough water (only) that will cover the grain and will mix well.
Pour that rolling boiling water into your grain pot and stir thoroughly.
Insulate the grain/hot water pot with blankets for 90 minutes to let it cook out that starch.

But seeing as you likely already have water in there. Cook HOT and stir often to keep from scorching.
After 90 minutes, allow to cool to your enzyme temperature. Check your enzyme brand, but most are around ~150°+/- 5° territory.

Let the enzymes work for 60 to 90 minutes. Test for starches ONLY with a liquid sample of mash. Any grain in your test sample will skew the test.
Top off with water and pitch yeast at designated temperature.
________
Also, do some reading of some all-grain recipes here. Barley such as 2-row and 6-row has enzyme properties of its own, and can be
pitched with your chemical enzymes for added enzymatic "punch."

[shadylane]

I'd recommend a 2 step process for mashing with enzymes
First use SEBstar HTL. High Temperature Liquid Alpha-amylase that converts starch into dextrin. Temp up to 190F
Then use SEBamyl GL. Liquid Gluco-amylase to convert the dextrin into glucose sugar. Temp 150F and lower.

[Red]

A big thank you for everybody that helped. When I put the enzyme in, do I need to maintain a certain temperature such as a hundred and fifty degrees for a certain period of time?
I will definitely keep you folks updated on the process.

[fizzix]

A big thank you for everybody that helped. When I put the enzyme in, do I need to maintain a certain temperature such as a hundred and fifty degrees for a certain period of time?
I will definitely keep you folks updated on the process.

I just wrap the bucket/pot with blankets to insulate and hold the temperature. It'll maintain well enough for a good conversion.

[Red]

So here is update 1. I put the concoction back on the burner 490 minutes at about 200 degrees. At the end of the 90 minutes I let it cool to 145 and added the enzyme. I did not wrap the pot as I should have and at the end of 90 minutes I did not get a conversion. The iodine test failed as I should have and at the end of 90 minutes I did not get a conversion. The iodine test failed. There are some observations here that will be needed for my next run such as I had to add water to the mash as I was cooking it. Don't know if that's good or bad but next time I'll start out with more water.
I also think I will definitely do the wrapping in a blanket deal so that there is no chance of scorching. And it will hold its temperature better than having constant heat on it.

[Manc]

Hi red

I use the two part enzymes and use the method as described in Booners all corn. Basically add boiling water to the corn and first enzyme which is for starch liquefaction I wrap for 2 hours then adjust temperature to 60°c and also which I think is even more important adjust the pH to 4 which is the optimum for conversion and then allow to sit overnight wrapped in blankets then the next day adjust temperature for pitching yeast. I now only use the starch to check for the first step as mine still shows the presence of starches after the second enzyme although all starcheshave gone by the time the ferment has finished ( which indicates to me that it's still working during the ferment)

Is there a data sheet with your enzymes that gives optimum temp and also pH which can make all the difference. I must admit my first attempt failed as I paid little attention to the ph and temps.

If you read through the Booners all corn recipe there are lots of references to enzymes failing and can stop you making the same mistakes.

Hope this is of use

Lee

[Skipper1953]

How can you be so sure you didn't get any conversion based on the iodine starch test? All that is telling you is that there is still starch present. You need to use a hydrometer to test the specific gravity of the wort.

Try pitching some yeast in a portion of the concoction that has been cooled to an appropriate temperature. If it ferments, you got conversion. Yeast will not ferment starch.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Nevermind anything else. How does it taste?

[willee]

I use that enzyme in brewing beer ... I add it to the mash when the temp is around 155 F and let is sit for one hour. Works just great.
At about 170 F you will destroy the enzymes.

[Red]

Here is a little more about me. I suffer from the well-known but not often admitted to affliction known as knuckleheaditis. I never know exactly when I may have flare up but it appears that this weekend I had a flare up. After reading some of the posts after my update, I realize that I had messed up. You see, I had tasted my mash and it tasted like it was definitely getting sweeter. However, I thought the iodine test was the end all that be all of tests. With the mash showing starches still, I decided that I had messed up again and I threw out the mash. Now, after reading the comments I realized that I had a full-blown onset of my affliction.
I want to believe that I won't let this happen again, but I'm sure it will.

[The Baker]

Never throw it out until a couple days later when you have had time to think about it??

Geoff

[Saltbush Bill]

Nevermind anything else. How does it taste?

People never seem to learn to keep things simple, simple can often tell you many things.

[Red]

You folks are awesome!! Thanks.

[Distillernz]

Red this video may help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnboJ3Kxeo

[bilgriss]

Your affliction is very contagious. I have caught it on several occasions as it gets passed around. The cure is patience (hardest thing to get in a bottle) and reading the HD forum, practicing the art of of questioning. This post shows you are on the right path.

Now read some more, and call us in the morning.

[Red]

I made a run with this stuff. My abv was 11% before the run. Stainless steel 3 gallon set up and I messed up and used turbo yeast to boot.I ran a vinegar water wash first then cleaned it up. I collected everything from 143 to 173/176 and tossed. It was a medium blue color and stunk. I kept 176 to 198/200. Still a slight blue tinge. Also kept 198/200 to 205/207. All of it smells bad but all burned nice and blue no yellow at all. My finish abv was lower than the start.I plan on dumping it all in the woods and let the mosquitoes fight it out. one of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I need some help in figuring out what I did wrong besides starting this Hobby. I did read the readers Lounge 4 times, then again this morning as well as many other threads here.

[Red]

Here's some additional info that may be helpful. I use a thumper and ran it really slow. I put it in the freezer last night hoping that if it had any impurities in it that they would freeze being other than alcohol. Nothing froze.

[still_stirrin]

...I messed up and used turbo yeast...It was a medium blue color and stunk...

I did read the readers Lounge 4 times, then again this morning as well as many other threads here.

Nutrients in the Turbo can make sheite out of a sugar wash.

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26600#p6957048
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42303
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9153
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=16667&start=30

Do a search for "blue distillate" and read the threads...all seem related to Turbo yeast and/or excessive nutrients.
ss

[Red]

Thanks for the information. My pH is way off too. Back to the drawing board.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Thanks for the information. My pH is way off too. Back to the drawing board.

What drawing board? Everything has all ready been drawn up for you.

viewforum.php?f=14

In particular to this attempt,

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51458