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Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:29 am
by Reaverman
Anyone having issues sourcing Alpha-amylase in the UK?

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:23 am
by NormandieStill
I bought some from a Polish site. https://destylacja.com/enzym-gorzelnicz ... -50ml.html Got a bottle of alfa amalyse and a bottle of gluco amalyse (and some other little accessories to take me over their minimum order amount). Was delivered to France in about a week I think. Not tried it yet. I'll probably have a go in a few days and I can let you know then how it went.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:26 am
by SomethingObscure

Reaverman wrote:Anyone having issues sourcing Alpha-amylase in the UK?
Have you tried the yellow label angel yeast. Not Alpha amylase but easy enough to get delivered to the UK.
NormandieStill wrote:I bought some from a Polish site. https://destylacja.com/enzym-gorzelnicz ... -50ml.html Got a bottle of alfa amalyse and a bottle of gluco amalyse (and some other little accessories to take me over their minimum order amount). Was delivered to France in about a week I think. Not tried it yet. I'll probably have a go in a few days and I can let you know then how it went.
Thought this was just what I was looking for. But unfortunately they don't deliver to the UK.Image

Everywhere I've seen its out of stock.

Cheers thou. SomethingObscure

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:39 am
by NormandieStill
SomethingObscure wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:26 am
Thought this was just what I was looking for. But unfortunately they don't deliver to the UK.Image
Ah crap. Brexit... the gift that just keeps on giving! ;-)

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:12 am
by SomethingObscure
NormandieStill wrote:
SomethingObscure wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:26 am
Thought this was just what I was looking for. But unfortunately they don't deliver to the UK.Image
Ah crap. Brexit... the gift that just keeps on giving! ;-)
Indeed. Yesterday I found something on AliExpress and it was in stock in a Spanish warehouse, but they wouldn't deliver to the UK Image.

But least we have our sovereignty ImageImageImageImageImage


SomethingObscure

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:40 am
by NormandieStill
And blue passports! Very important those.

Although last I heard they were being printed in Poland (via a French company?) and so it may not actually be possible to receive them in the UK. But still, they exist which is the important thing. :-)

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:36 pm
by SomethingObscure
Hehe. Not really sure how we can ignore Europe. But I'm sure my passport the burgundy in colour. Maybe it's changed and the British passport control won't let me back in if I travel to the continent. It Wouldn't surprise me I have a continental look about me.

I guess we do what the press tell us and the press are told in turn by their Australian owners . Still don't help me get parts and ingredients from the EU.

But back on topic. I still haven't found a single supplier of enzyme in the UK who have stock. I guess my first adventure into AG will be using the yellow labeled angel yeast.

Cheers SomethingObscure

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:39 am
by Reaverman
NormandieStill wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:23 am
I bought some from a Polish site. https://destylacja.com/enzym-gorzelnicz ... -50ml.html Got a bottle of alfa amalyse and a bottle of gluco amalyse (and some other little accessories to take me over their minimum order amount). Was delivered to France in about a week I think. Not tried it yet. I'll probably have a go in a few days and I can let you know then how it went.
Yes please mate :thumbup:

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:26 am
by Birrofilo
You might have better fortune looking for yeast Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast, maybe that is available in the UK.
That contains glucoamylase which, for distillers' purposes, is better than alpha-amylase.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:39 am
by Reaverman
Birrofilo wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:26 am
You might have better fortune looking for yeast Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast, maybe that is available in the UK.
That contains glucoamylase which, for distillers' purposes, is better than alpha-amylase.
Spoke to Lovebrewing, and they said there is a shortage but should be seeing stock in the summer. I want to make a grain whisky, I just wanted to make sure my malts had a clear chance of turning all the starches into sugars!

Is the Alcotec Whisky strain like the Still Spirits Whisky Yeast?

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:09 pm
by Birrofilo
Reaverman wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:39 am
Is the Alcotec Whisky strain like the Still Spirits Whisky Yeast?
I have no idea, but Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast contains glucoamylase which is very good in obtaining 100% conversion of the starches in the mash.

Still Spirit doesn't make any mention of their strain containing glucoamylase, and they sell glucoamylase as a separate product (Distiller’s Enzyme Glucoamylase) which leads me to believe that the yeast doesn't contain the enzyme. If you can find the glucoamylase sold by Still Spirit (or by anybody else) that will solve your need better than alpha-amylase.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:33 am
by Reaverman
Birrofilo wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:09 pm
Reaverman wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:39 am
Is the Alcotec Whisky strain like the Still Spirits Whisky Yeast?
I have no idea, but Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast contains glucoamylase which is very good in obtaining 100% conversion of the starches in the mash.

Still Spirit doesn't make any mention of their strain containing glucoamylase, and they sell glucoamylase as a separate product (Distiller’s Enzyme Glucoamylase) which leads me to believe that the yeast doesn't contain the enzyme. If you can find the glucoamylase sold by Still Spirit (or by anybody else) that will solve your need better than alpha-amylase.
Oh right, so Gluco is better than Alpha? I thought you had to use the Alpha at higher temps, and finish with gluco at lower temps? Alpha would break bigger chunks of starch, but the gluco was for the small chunks?

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:46 am
by Reaverman
Daft question, but surely something like this would suffice?


Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:37 am
by Birrofilo
@Reaverman

For some reason, I cannot see the Amazon link, I only see an Amazon logo. Try putting the ASIN number.

Yes glucoamylase is way better than alpha amylase for distillers. Alpha-amylase dissolves the 1-4 link but it is not able to dissolve the 1-6 link of Amylopectin which is one of the constituents of starch. This link is theoretically dissolved during mashing by the enzyme limit dextrinase which is in the malt but is deactivated at lower temperature than the typical mashing temperatures. Also, in homebrewing a 100% conversion is normally not desired. Glucoamylase can do both 1-4 and 1-6 bonds and nothing remains "unreduced". If you add glucoamylase to your mash you arrive to 100% conversion, which you cannot do with adding alpha-amylase.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:57 am
by Reaverman
Birrofilo wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:37 am
@Reaverman

For some reason, I cannot see the Amazon link, I only see an Amazon logo. Try putting the ASIN number.

Yes glucoamylase is way better than alpha amylase for distillers. Alpha-amylase dissolves the 1-4 link but it is not able to dissolve the 1-6 link of Amylopectin which is one of the constituents of starch. This link is theoretically dissolved during mashing by the enzyme limit dextrinase which is in the malt but is deactivated at lower temperature than the typical mashing temperatures. Also, in homebrewing a 100% conversion is normally not desired. Glucoamylase can do both 1-4 and 1-6 bonds and nothing remains "unreduced". If you add glucoamylase to your mash you arrive to 100% conversion, which you cannot do with adding alpha-amylase.
It's B000Y8AT0O

Think I have found some with higher levels of Amylase

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:46 am
by Birrofilo
Birrofilo wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:37 am
This link is theoretically dissolved during mashing by the enzyme limit dextrinase which is in the malt but is deactivated at lower temperature than the typical mashing temperatures.
I correct myself, limit dextrinase is still showing 60% activity at 65 °C kept for an hour. Which means that unless you mash entirely above that temperature, or mash for a too short time, it's limit dextrinase which takes the starch away from your wort. Actually, considering that glucoamylase is, thinking about it, not present in the malt, what makes the iodine test perform OK in a malt mash is actually limit dextrinase.

A long enough malt mash at proper temperatures should never need glucoamylase. You might need it if you use other cereals of more difficult conversion.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:31 pm
by Reaverman
Birrofilo wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:46 am
Birrofilo wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:37 am
This link is theoretically dissolved during mashing by the enzyme limit dextrinase which is in the malt but is deactivated at lower temperature than the typical mashing temperatures.
I correct myself, limit dextrinase is still showing 60% activity at 65 °C kept for an hour. Which means that unless you mash entirely above that temperature, or mash for a too short time, it's limit dextrinase which takes the starch away from your wort. Actually, considering that glucoamylase is, thinking about it, not present in the malt, what makes the iodine test perform OK in a malt mash is actually limit dextrinase.

A long enough malt mash at proper temperatures should never need glucoamylase. You might need it if you use other cereals of more difficult conversion.
Cool, cheers for that.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:20 am
by McDonalds CCC
Correct me if I’m being dumb here how does the alcoteck yeast work when combined with the enzyme if you need a higher temp for it to be effective? Surly it would kill the yeast.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:26 am
by Birrofilo
McDonalds CCC wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:20 am
Correct me if I’m being dumb here how does the alcoteck yeast work when combined with the enzyme if you need a higher temp for it to be effective? Surly it would kill the yeast.
The enzyme is with the yeast. You "pitch" the yeast and the enzymes. They will work during fermentation and at the fermentation temperature which is indicated by the manufacturer. I went and see the picture, there is no specific temperature indicated by the producer. I would just ferment somewhere between 20 and 30 °C.

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:59 am
by NormandieStill
McDonalds CCC wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:20 am
Correct me if I’m being dumb here how does the alcoteck yeast work when combined with the enzyme if you need a higher temp for it to be effective? Surly it would kill the yeast.
There's more than one alpha-amalyse enzyme and depending on it's source its optimum temperature range will vary. Barley for example is around 72C from memory. The high-temperature ones available as liquid enzymes are from a bacteria. Fructamyl FCT from Erbslöh works at 20C. As we get better at understanding protein folding I don't doubt that we'll start tailoring them to the range needed per application!

Re: Alpha-amylase UK

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:28 pm
by Birrofilo
The enzyme in the Alcotec Single Strain Whisky Yeast is glucoamylase, an enzyme which works in the 20-70 °C range and which is also produced by the human body.