when to polish

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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allen42
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when to polish

Post by allen42 »

i was wondering , at what point does a spirit need to be polished with carbon ? is there a gen rule of thumb , like say anything that comes off below 90% ? or is it just by taste alone ?

thanks
Guest

Post by Guest »

If you are getting bad taste cut earlier and dump it in the next run. I love my white whiskey taken off between 150 and 120 no need to filter. I believe that your mash is the major factor in the taste. Garbage in garbage out.
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

i do not collect anything below 90% , i use the basic suga wash with turbo yeast ,, is that garbage ? what do you use ? i just was asking those that do polish with carbon , when do they polish
Guest

Post by Guest »

The turbo yeast I have tried did a fine job except that it seems to produce a lot of ethylacetate. I get good results by making something nea to the sour mash recipe except heavy on the sugar. 30 lbs grain to 70 lbs sugar - use the same grain up to 4 times (distillers yeast). I double distill. Some I am putting in a barrel the rest I use as a mixer as you would vodka or rum. Not bad straight but I rarely drink something white straight. Starting a run with 3 whiskey yeast tonight, well see if there are more flavors.
Uncle Remus
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Post by Uncle Remus »

I've found high %AV turbo washes can produce some off flavour even when run through the reflux still twice. I had one particular batch on the second distill 94-95% AV, and it still had a slight moonshiney taste when diluted to 40-45%. This batch I ran through carbon.
I've had other turbo batches with an AV around 14% and they were absolutely tastless after the second distill and needed no carbon treatment.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
Guest

Post by Guest »

well I guess it just depends on the batch , the batch that i ran over the weekend i checked tonight & it was 94% and no "moonshiney smell " and the few drops i tasted seemed ok, BUT what i wanna end up with is a spirit that when i give some to friends they go WOW , you made this ?, so i think i am gonna try and build me a filter of sorts & play with that some too, if i am gonna keep this hobby up might as well have a filter to use when needed

thanks for yalls inpuT !!!
knuklehead
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Re: when to polish

Post by knuklehead »

allen42 wrote:i was wondering , at what point does a spirit need to be polished with carbon ? is there a gen rule of thumb , like say anything that comes off below 90% ? or is it just by taste alone ?

thanks
There is not general rule of thumb that would apply to everyone. The choice is up to you, your smell and taste. If you think it tastes great then it is. Some peoples sense of smell is better then others and some peoples taste buds are bitcher then others. I for one do not have these senses to the degree my wife does. I have often run neutral and smelled, tasted it and went wow, nice. Let my wife have a sniff and I can tell by her facial expression whether I'm filtering or not. Sometimes I've run and hesitantly had her smell and taste and she says wow. So everyone is different allen42 but the best part of all of this is......your the most important one.
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

OPPS forgot to log in

So , what type of filter do yall use WHEN you use one , I have read Brita could be used , also several post i have read talk about making one from pipe , pvc & poly , i have also read that copper,carbon and spirits dont do well together ,, would one could out just as good with one of the brita pitchers?

thanks again
allen
jim81147
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Post by jim81147 »

BUT what i wanna end up with is a spirit that when i give some to friends they go WOW ,

Allen , if this is your objective then dont you really want to concentrate on making something with flavor like a whiskey or rum , rather than a vodka?
Watershed
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Post by Watershed »

allen42 wrote:OPPS forgot to log in

S i have also read that copper,carbon and spirits dont do well together ,, would one could out just as good with one of the brita pitchers?

thanks again
allen
I'd have thought they go perfectly together, anyhow I soak on carbon, decant and strain rather than filtering.

Throwing in bicarb on the second distillation helps too.
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

Thanks Watershed, i have done just as you stated before, soaked then starined/filtered the carbon out of the spirit , Which did a great job although it was a pain in the rear end filtering the carbon out , maybe what i should focus on is building a filter just to take the carbon out out of the spirit after it has soaked

last time i soaked on carbon, it took me a long time to get the spirit back clear , i am thinking it took 3-4 passes though coffee filter and wine filters , maybe build a "tower" of 5-6" PVC to hold the spirit , then reduce the pipe down to say 2-3 " pvc and place filter paper between a few couplings , so that after it ran though several filters it would come out clear , doing it this way , all you would have to do is pour the spirit up & forget about it

what do yall think ?
knuklehead
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Post by knuklehead »

Hey allen42, this is what I built to do the job you refer to. The stainless steel funnel has sieve plate in it which I wrap in filter paper. I push two cotton balls down the spout and then use a coffee filter set inside the body of the filter which is held in place by the stainless steel collar. I used a copper tube with a valve on it to siphon and adjust the rate of flow. I always put the product with the carbon in the freezer over night before filtering out the carbon. I just set it up, adjust the flow rate and then I let it do all the work. Here are some pics.



Image
Image
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
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allen42
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Post by allen42 »

Thanks SO much for the pic KH !!

I ran a double batch last weekend & collected 2 gallons of 94 % , i am gonna cut that back by 1/2 & place in a carboy , shake it up everyday for a week & hopefully by then i can collect me a ss funnel , your design is the easiest i have seen yet , i think i will copy it !! Thanks again !!


when you say filter paper , are you talking about wine filter paper ? ,, i know in the past when i tried carbon , it took several passes to get it clear again BUT i didnt freezer it nor did i have this type of set up ..
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Post by knuklehead »

I don't use wine filter paper, just coffee filters. I made the funnel to fit a certain size of coffee filter. When filtering out carbon it is important to get all the carbon dust out of the product or all the nasty stuff you filtered will still be present in the dust. I usually pass it through my set up more then once even though there are 4 levels of filtration. I pass it through until after all the product has been through the cotton ball in the neck is still bright white. It my not be necessary to do it more then once but I just set it up and leave it do it's thing so the only thing it costs me is two coffee filter and a couple of cotton balls and it's not like I have to stand there and watch it filter. Glad the pics helped allen42.
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

the batch i polished last year i ran it though SEVERAL times before i got it back to the point where there wasnt any black on the filters,, was quite a pain cuz i was just free hand pouring with a measuring cup lol

i WAS gonna ask how you found the perfect sized funnel !! hmm maybe one of my buddys wil make me one hmm ,, nuclear plant !!!yes lol they have loads of SS hehhee

thanks again KH !
Watershed
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Post by Watershed »

Is there any point it letting spirit sit on carbon for a week then? It looks like the filter's holding roughly the same amount as I'd add to a batch and the contact time is much shorter.
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

jim81147 wrote:BUT what i wanna end up with is a spirit that when i give some to friends they go WOW ,

Allen , if this is your objective then dont you really want to concentrate on making something with flavor like a whiskey or rum , rather than a vodka?
i guess what i was meaning when i said WOW , is that is doesnt have any taste that ALOT of moonshine has ,, something that isnt harsh ,, lol i am still learning & really getting the feel of a reflux, so once i get that down pat , i may make a pot still out of my boiler,,,, when i made the reflux, i connected the colum with a 2" male/female coupling , so if and when i decided to have a pot still, i could just unscrew the reflux & screw on the pot design ..
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

Watershed wrote:Is there any point it letting spirit sit on carbon for a week then? It looks like the filter's holding roughly the same amount as I'd add to a batch and the contact time is much shorter.
Watershed, i just through a *week* out there , last year when i soaked some in carbon i let it set at least a week, ,, So long long does it need to set on teh carbon? I am very new to this !! Any and ALL coments are welcome !!
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Post by knuklehead »

Watershed wrote:Is there any point it letting spirit sit on carbon for a week then? It looks like the filter's holding roughly the same amount as I'd add to a batch and the contact time is much shorter.
The filter in the picture isn't a carbon filter, the carbon is in the bottle where the spirit is coming from. I usually let it sit on carbon for a few weeks for sure with the cap off and a coffee filter held in place by a rubber band over the opening of the bottle. Then I'll put the cap on and the bottle in the freezer to thicken the spirit and run it through the filter the next day to remove the carbon form the spirit.
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
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Post by Guest »

hmm KH is the cap on in the frezzer just to keep it from spilling ?
knuklehead
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Post by knuklehead »

Yup.....and to keep the freezer fairies form drinking my booze. :D
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

you have been a real help KH!!! ,,, IF i can find some SS funnels at a good price locally , i think i will buy 3 of them and try to stack them with coffe filter in one & maybe 2 with wine filters in the others,,,
knuklehead
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Post by knuklehead »

allen42 wrote:you have been a real help KH!!! ,,, IF i can find some SS funnels at a good price locally , i think i will buy 3 of them and try to stack them with coffe filter in one & maybe 2 with wine filters in the others,,,
If I remember correctly you built your own still, you have a through tube reflux, so you know how to solder. Why don't you build your own filtering funnel. Just go out and buy yourself a cheap stainless steel mixing bowl or pot, the right size to fit the filter you want to use, drill a hole in the bottom and solder in a copper nipple. Make some sort of mounting clip on it so you can mount it on a stand of some sort and you have any size of funnel you like. If you get another bowl or two a little larger you can cut yourself some strainer plates out of them. Just cut them to fit inside the first bowl and drill large holes in it. Then you can wrap your wine filters around this plate and drop it into the funnel. Set another filter on top of that and with a cotton ball in the nipple you have 4 filters to pass your product through in one filter run. Just a suggestion. Sometimes the best way to get exactly what you want is to do it yourself. :D
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

YESSSSSSSSSS Great Idea,,,, but errrrr can you solder SS to Copper? I had no idea , but if ya can, that is what i will do without a question!!i have lead free solder & Silver solder at the house .. which should i use?or is there something else i sould use?
Uncle Remus
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Post by Uncle Remus »

Copper to stainless you need silver solder.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

i have some at home , is there a speical flux i need as well?

Thanks Remus !
Uncle Remus
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Post by Uncle Remus »

Yes silver solder is much easier to work with if you use silver solder flux.
Silver melts at a much higher temp than lead free solder so you will have to get your metals red hot, be carefull not to burn or melt through. Practice on some scrap first.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
allen42
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Post by allen42 »

thanks yall, a damn kidney stone attack last night /this morning has me side lined for the moment ,,, i'll update when i finish up

thanks again EVERYBODY !!
Uncle Jesse
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silver solder

Post by Uncle Jesse »

make sure it's the right stuff, silver solder!

never tried it, but i am learning vertical oxy-fuel welds at the moment.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
knuklehead
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Post by knuklehead »

You can solder copper to stainless steel with almost any solder. I do it at work all the time using 50/50. 50/50 is used only for drain pans and such but I use Silvabrite solder for anything meant to contain fluid for human or animal consumption. It is a low temperature soft solder as apposed to a high temperature hard solder like silfos which is sometimes referred to as silver solder, around here anyways. When I solder sheet metal like stainless steel I use a gas fired soldering iron like this.
Image
You can also get them in electric like this.
Image
Using an iron to solder thin sheet metal like a stainless steel mixing bowl you avoid all the excess heat of a flame and you can pin point it right where you need it. I use zinc chloride as a flux to solder stainless steel and to solder stainless steel and copper together. Zinc chloride is just muriatic acid with strips of zinc dropped in it until its "killed". Using an iron eliminates all the discoloration you'll get using a high temperature flame to get the metal red hot to solder with hard solder.
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
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