The humble vanilla bean. I love it dammit.

[FL Brewer]

I'm really interested in the possibility of smoothing out a whiskey using a little bit of vanilla beans. I've got both bourbon and single malt batches that have a nice oak (vanilla and caramel) flavor, but also have that astringent/tannic kind of raw oak flavor. I toasted my 8x1x1/2 inch sticks of oak at 400F for an hour then charred them (to what looks to me to be an alligator char), used four per gallon for the bourbon, aged for six months. For the single malt I used four of the same sticks that had been used once for the bourbon, aged one year. Any experience with the beans taking away that tannic raw oak flavor? I've got quite a bit of hooch I would like to treat this way if it works. Have some beans on order and will try it once they get here, but would like some opinions on whether I'm barking up the wrong tree.

The single malt has been diluted to about 42% and bottled, the bourbon is still on oak at 60% for six months so far. I diluted about 15 ml of the bourbon to 43% to sample, and it had that tannic flavor as well as a bit of a bite. I think a year on the wood is enough to really smooth out the taste (the single malt is really smooth), but I need to do something about that raw oak flavor. I'm going to toast the next batch of oak for two hours at 400F, but really want to save the stock I have.

[FL Brewer]

Got my Tahitian vanilla beans, and added half a bean to a bottle of single malt and half to a bottle of bourbon, let them sit for a week. Tasted both last night, room temp neat, and either the vanilla rounds off some of those tannic edges, or it covers them up. I can still taste a little bit of raw oak, but it is much improved from before adding the beans. To my untrained palate, it doesn't seem to add a whole lot of vanilla flavor, but does seem to moderate the oak.

I'll do a more controlled side by side of the bean/no bean bottles for both SM and bourbon tonight... will do it on ice, which is how I drink my whiskey and post an update.

[OtisT]

Got my Tahitian vanilla beans, and added half a bean to a bottle of single malt and half to a bottle of bourbon, let them sit for a week. Tasted both last night, room temp neat, and either the vanilla rounds off some of those tannic edges, or it covers them up. I can still taste a little bit of raw oak, but it is much improved from before adding the beans. To my untrained palate, it doesn't seem to add a whole lot of vanilla flavor, but does seem to moderate the oak.

I'll do a more controlled side by side of the bean/no bean bottles for both SM and bourbon tonight... will do it on ice, which is how I drink my whiskey and post an update.

Hi FL. I’m suprised the vanilla helped tame the tannins. I’m happy for you.

Just wanted to comment on the oak sticks. 1/2” thick sticks are a bit thin for all that toasting and charring. I’m guessing you use an oven, but correct me if I am wrong. One hour should be more than enough to toast all the way through, considering the heat only needs to toast to a depth of 1/4” to reach the middle. Easy way to tell is to cut one in half and look to see how far it has penetrated. I personally like to see a bit of toast gradient in my wood, toast to somewhat raw for a more complex flavor. To each their own.

An alagitor char could go fairly deep, depends on how you do it. You may want to consider only charring one side of those 1/2 thick sticks to save some toasted wood. That is, unless you want a heavy char profile then I say go for it. Just my opinion.

Otis

[FL Brewer]

Hi FL. I’m suprised the vanilla helped tame the tannins. I’m happy for you.

Otis - Maybe the vanilla took the edge off the tannic flavor, maybe it just added enough vanilla flavor to soften or cover up the tannis.... I do know it tastes better after a week on the beans. It certainly isn't an overwhelming vanilla flavor, but then again, I do really like vanilla.

I did cut a stick in half to see how far the toast and char penetrated. The toast was definitely only halfway to the middle, there was raw/untoasted oak in the middle. The char layer was very narrow, less than half a millimeter. I char the sticks with a propane torch with the flame directly on the surface of the wood, only takes a few seconds to get the alligator texture I've seen in several picture on this site and elswhere. I did toast the wood in the oven before charring, but I put a pretty big bundle of sticks wrapped in aluminum foil all at once. I think the sticks in the middle didn't get toasted enough. Next time I'll only do enough for the one batch only in a single layer wrapped in foil. I used the newly toasted and charred sticks for the bourbon, then reused the same sticks for the single malt.

Another thing I should note is that I did the stress aging process, rotating the aging jugs through the freezer. All the jugs got at least 30 cycles through the freezer, maybe that's too much.

Appreciate you thoughts, I'm still trying to get whiskey aging figured out.

[raptor402]

this is awesome.... I had a bottle of ujssm that was nuclear aged with jd chips, added one bean split, 1 spoon full of real maple syrup, it already had 1 spoon of glycerin and 1 spoon of imitation vanilla. it sat for two weeks before I tasted... very smooth I consumed it with ice, and a little spring water.....im gonna make some more this way I have it on stand by....the vanilla is moderate but not over powering, I couldn't taste the maple...but so smooth, dam it's good......

[OtisT]

..... I'm still trying to get whiskey aging figured out.

You and me both brother. Otis

[Honest_Liberty]

Well. I was gonna bottle my 3.5 gallons of sweetfeed into bottles but I suppose I'll drop 5 sticks in there and let it rest another month. I was greedy with the tails for flavor in the long run on this spirit run. We've already consumed 1.5 gallons at 100 proof in just a month. Too much bite for my liking.

Added: 4 beans to the white sweetfeed
4 beans to 5 gallons at 60% on oak, loose cut for long aging
1 bean to one of my two gallon jugs of all grain bourbon on oak at 60%
1 in my decanter of sweetfeed on the bar

I'll report back. Ongoing, about each month.
I'm very interested in the difference in development between the bourbons, and I went very low on the beans, no more than one per gallon, almost

[Bushman]

I remember when this thread first got posted. I think a lot of our members went out a bought vanilla beans.

[Honest_Liberty]

I've forgot why I bought them, something for making alcohol, and then I started wondering about whether it'll smooth out the drop earlier.
I'm almost positive I put extract in the jar of sweetfeed I gave my buddy, and it was such a delight after a year I couldn't believe it.
I can't imagine that was just the SF recipe.

[Honest_Liberty]

Maybe it's me but this vanilla bean, uncut, is already very potent on the nose after 48 hours. I'd like to see if anyone has repeated this and discovered a general window that is ideal for subtle, but desirable flavor. I don't want the vanilla to take over.

I'm thinking maybe a week max as of right now.
Can anyone weigh in? I've read all sorts of timelines but I can't decipher anything

[Bushman]

I haven’t used them lately except for liqueur drinks that call for them but it does alter the flavor along with smoothing out the whiskey I made years ago. Like I said I haven’t used them on any of my AG recipes.

[Honest_Liberty]

Bushman, do you think there is a timeline where the vanilla takes over? Say, 7 days? A month?
I've read stuff that states even 4 days can be too much.

I think I'm gonna to play it safe and remove them at 7 days after a taste test, and monitor it for 6 months. See how it's interacting with the wood, and with the clear SF. I don't want to bottle all my drinking SF stock too early if the vanilla needs a bit more time than anticipated.

Damn this hobby is so fun but so difficult for impatient people like myself. It's basically an exercise in delayed gratification. Probably a great character builder now that I think of it

[still_stirrin]

I salvaged a couple of kegs of old (2+ y.o.) Bud Light with double distillation and put the product on toasted and lightly charred oak. To aid in the “asset recovery”, I split a bean and put one in each 2 liter jar with the wood. After 6 months, it has colored nicely and the flavor is quite acceptable. In 6 more months I’ll bottle it and hopefully it’ll taste good enough to celebrate the 4th of July with friends and family.
ss

[Honest_Liberty]

So you kept the bean in there for six months?
If not split, I've read mixed results on the influence of the bean

[still_stirrin]

So you kept the bean in there for six months?

Yep. And the wood too. Time helps a “brown spirit”.

[Bushman]

Split beans are obviously more potent. The best way is to test them on an on going basis. Also vanilla beans can be reused although they do loose some of their powers so used ones will take longer to take effect on your product.

[Honest_Liberty]

cool. thanks! I'll periodically report back on this for any interested parties as the flavors develop with a whole, uncut bean per gallon

[Honest_Liberty]

5 days on my white dog 100 proof SF.
One bean about 7", unsplit, to 400ml.

I'm taking it out already. Way too much vanilla. Completely changed the spirit, and deficiently knocked out the sugar bite by 50% minimum.

I'll monitor the bulk aging with one of those brands per gallon. Didn't notice much in the bourbon yet

[wpkluck]

A friend brought me some Tahaa vanilla bean from a recent (Caribean) vacation. I decided to take some white dog, 12oz, and put a 1" cut in, and I'll test it every 24 hrs for the next 7 days. It's 138p, untempered hearts from a sugar + 50% corn/25%barley/25%flaked rye recipe. (The actual recipe for my 5 gallon mash was 5#, 2.5#, 2.5#, 8# sugar.)

I also took at 148p jar of the same recipe, and put a full, uncut LEMON into 12oz jar. Also will test every 48 hrs.

As you might imagine, these taste pretty hot untempered. I'm hoping to develop some strong flavor, then temper to around 85-90p. I'll post how it goes.

[BamaHawk]

I may have missed it reading through the thread but what grade of vanilla bean are you guys using? I've found "grade A" for around $2/bean while "grade B" seems to run about half that price. Has anyone done a comparison between the two or is everyone just purchasing the cheapest option they can find (likely grade B)?

[Saltbush Bill]

Seriously? do some of you fellas take it that far ?......a vanilla bean is a vanilla bean in my part of the world, glad I don't live in a country or place that needs to be so precise.

[Irishgnome]

Seriously? do some of you fellas take it that far ?......a vanilla bean is a vanilla bean in my part of the world, glad I don't live in a country or place that needs to be so precise.

LMFAO!!!!
I have tried both, could not notice a difference in the spirit.
The beans do look different to a degree. With grade “B” having slight color variation throughout the bean.
Cheers

[8Ball]

As long as the vanilla beans are relatively fresh, then they should work. I bought some lower grade beans last year that were pretty much dried up and useless. You want that rich & moist paste to be present inside the bean

[Bushman]

Never realized they have different grades? I used to use them a lot when most of my runs were sugar washes but haven’t used a vanilla bean in probably 4-5 years.

[BamaHawk]

Seriously? do some of you fellas take it that far ?......a vanilla bean is a vanilla bean in my part of the world, glad I don't live in a country or place that needs to be so precise.

It was just a simple question. From this comment I assume your answer was what I stated (the cheapest you can find). I really wasn't studying it that closely but when I pulled up vanilla beans on Amazon the first two options showed a grade A and a grade B and "A" was 2x the price of "B" so I felt it was a legitimate question.

After all, I've seen you guys debating many other things that I would have considered overkill but yet the debate and discussion exists.

Thanks for the reply.

[still_stirrin]

...I've found "grade A" for around $2/bean while "grade B" seems to run about half that price. Has anyone done a comparison between the two or is everyone just purchasing the cheapest option they can find (likely grade B)?

Seriously? do some of you fellas take it that far ?......a vanilla bean is a vanilla bean in my part of the world, glad I don't live in a country or place that needs to be so precise.

It was just a simple question...I really wasn't studying it that closely...so I felt it was a legitimate question...

Champagne taste but a beer budget? Obviously, use what you can afford.

But just DO IT!

More often than not, some things are “over thought”, when it would be better to find out “in practice”. You can read, and read, and ask questions when you will be time ahead to simply proceed and learn by “experience”. Tripping over this question is not going to make a big difference in the end...at least not worth the “hot air” expended.
ss

[Saltbush Bill]

Its ages since I bought a vanilla bean, so today out of curiosity I went looking at a few.
Of the three "brands" I found locally, price didn't seem to be a great indicator of quality, non where marked A or B.
One shriveled and crispy dry bean in a plastic pack of one brand was $6.50.
The next choice was two plump moist looking beans in a small test tube type container for $10 Grown in New Guinea.
The best value and freshest going by look and feel were Australian grown organic, 3 beans 7grams total for $15 for the pack.

The only place I found beans marked A or B grade was on ebay.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

My wife picked up a Vanilla bean hobby this year. Joined a Facebook co-op, and buys beans every month. Like, they place the order, and the company goes out and picks your beans and it gets to us 3 weeks off the flower. Amazing fresh beans from Madagascar, Tahiti, and other perfect regions. It's all ethically sourced and we get them shipped for $10-20 an ounce depending on the rarity and source.

I've started using them in meads and such, and I make the vodka to soak them for extract. Just getting in to it, but the old vanillian guard talk about the taste difference not much different than we discuss notes in our whiskies.

If nothing else, it's an amazing price for the best vanilla beans in the world. We get a few ounces a month, like a vanilla bean of the month club, lol. Our next order coming is 3 ounces of Sri Lanka beans, that were $20 an ounce, but that's the most we ever paid (more rare bean). But the Madagascar bourbon grade A 3 weeks from picking is $10 an ounce, and awesome.

[rubberduck71]

Cut & pasted this from amazon:

FYI: Vanilla beans come in two grades: A and B. Grade A beans are best for cooking, given their high moisture content. Grade B beans are more concentrated and better for making extract.

Since we're talking about long-term aging/flavoring, my thought would be that Grade B would be sufficient? Plus more cost effective...

Duck

[Expat]

Cut & pasted this from amazon:

FYI: Vanilla beans come in two grades: A and B. Grade A beans are best for cooking, given their high moisture content. Grade B beans are more concentrated and better for making extract.

Since we're talking about long-term aging/flavoring, my thought would be that Grade B would be sufficient? Plus more cost effective...

Duck

A vs B grading is primarily cosmetic, B is most appropriate unless you're planning to show off the bean in the bottle or something.