A little confused about oaking

[Hdflhx]

I've been doing a lot of reading on oaking and the more I read the more confused I get. (which is easily done lol). I'm starting to put some UJSSM on oak for my first oaking attempt.

Seems that the amount of oak to use is all over the map. There is quite a varying difference on the amount members use. I understand that everyone has different tastes. What I am worried about the most is over oaking. So, after reading every post that I could find about oaking, I have decided to try to use four 1/2" x 1/2" x 6" sticks per half gallon.

I am just trying to get opinions from members with oaking experience on using these amounts. Too much? Not enough? Thanks for any help.

[blanikdog]

Too much. Use one stick for a long time and air it regularly. Let your taste buds be your guide

[MuleKicker]

A little bit of oak for a long time is alot better than alot of oak for a little bit of time. What you are using is wayyyyy to much. I would do one of those sticks per 1/2 gallon.

[Hdflhx]

Thanks guys. I pulled 3 sticks out and left 1 stick per half gallon. I had 4 sticks per half gallon for 4 days. Hopefully that wasn't long enough to ruin it. It has great color and is a little oaky tasting but doen't seem to be overpowering.

[MuleKicker]

Naw, 4 days shouldnt do much dammage. Give ya alittle color, alittle faster. Good luck.

[Barney Fife]

I use more than that, and leave it in place forever. Keeps getting better and better!

I've argued this before, and will continue to do so. Folks who claim to have "over -oak'd" simply used too much and didn't leave it in place long enough. The more you use, the longer you need to leave it in there. Problem is, many think they can use more and drink it sooner. Doesn't work that way...

The higher volatiles from the oak will transfer to the spirits sooner, and these are often the more bitter components. For the nicer flavors to come around, you need to leave the wood and spirit together longer. If you have little wood in there, it will be drinkable sooner, because you haven't gotten too many bitter components in place yet, but you also haven't got much of the goodies either. Basically, you have lightly colored and slightly flavored white dog.

The other confusing matter is all these people who use oak(or other woods) to color and flavor their spirits. As soon as they reach the color they wanted, they pull out the wood. Wrong! Color's nothing. If you deeply char the wood and plop it in the jug or jar while it's still warm from the charring, it'll be colored a deep gold in a week, but it isn't aged. Aging is just that; aged. Time. It takes time, and various seasons, for the complete exchange between spirits and wood to take place. We can't use more wood and take less time. Nothing takes the place of time. Expect, perhaps, placing the spirits and wood in an autoclave for a few days at incredible pressures

Case in point: last December, my wife asks if I have any "brandy". So I bring up a gallon jug of Welch's grape juice brandy, made in July '08. We both take a sniff, and decide it still smells like grape juice, so I head out to the package store to buy a small bottle of brandy for to make fruit cake with. Just yesterday, she ask, again, if I have any brandy. Sweet girl, but she's got no memory... So I head back down and come back with the same jug of Welch's brandy. I takes the cap off, and takes a sniff. Nice! She does the same(before I declare it is nice) and she also declares it to be nice! I kid you not, this is now good brandy! There's a lot of oak in there, cut into short sections and charred to hell, but it's still working its magic. When new, the white dog would have made me puke. A year later, it was still fortified grape juice. 2 years later, it's now the genuine deal, and will only get better. If there was a contest I could enter it in, I would. It's that nice.

Time, boys. Let it take its sweet ass time. With lotsa oak!

[blanikdog]

There you go HD. Maybe you can split your spirit and try both ways. I always leave oak in until the jar has been drunk dry, but never that amount.

[Fastill]

I have to agree with barney on this one, I had some allgrain corn likker that I made and used 16 toasted oak cubes and a couple to tablespoons of charred white oak chips per 1.75L bottle and after 2-3 months I thought I had ruined my first allgrain I made. The stuff tasted horrible like wood and had a terrible aftertaste. 7-8 Months later and it reminds me of Makers Mark... Not my favorite but the stuff is really getting good, and is picking up a sweetness that is incredible. I would like to give a report back on how it will be in a full year but I am afraid that it just won't survive that long. I did 2 bottles that way and am down to 1/4 a bottle and nursing it as best as I can.

[blanikdog]

I had some rum in a 5litre barrel - small I know but a lot of oak surface area = for two years and it was disgusting and such a waste of good rum

Maybe I should have left it for another year or two, Perhaps I will when I next make rum, but I'll do it both ways.

[Bushman]

OK I'm convinced back to the liquor cabinet the oak is going back into the jars!

[Fastill]

OK I'm convinced back to the liquor cabinet the oak is going back into the jars!

I would still go easy on the oak if you want to drink it soon. My opinion (that is all it is) is heavy oak is for the long haul, to let the natural changes take place to simulate barrel aging. Lots of oak still tastes like shit for the short term...
Tough call on Blaniks rum, was the barrel toasted or charred???

[Hdflhx]

There you go HD. Maybe you can split your spirit and try both ways. I always leave oak in until the jar has been drunk dry, but never that amount.

When I get a little more backstock built up I will try more oak for longer periods. What Barney says makes sense to me but only one way to find out.

[Dnderhead]

how many/how long to leave is going to depend on how big and how thick the sticks are.if too small they will be chard all the way threw.bigger sticks leave room for both chard and unchard much like a barrel.

[MuleKicker]

7-8 Months later and it reminds me of Makers Mark...

you gotta cut the heads out.

On a serius note, I think Im gonna add some more oak to a bottle of my stuff in the basement. Got enough sittin there to give this theory a shot. I was fairly conservative on adding the oak to all bottles, they all got good color. But I would say none of them are ready to drink.

[blind drunk]

Well, here's my 2 bits. I have some over oaked modified UJSSM and some not quite oaked enough. So I back blend and try and get it just right. Both are over a year old and the under oaked hooch is really good but seems to lack a bit of spine. So I just add it on an as needed basis. Then I let it rest a bit longer and it comes together really fast as a new blend. Convoluted, but it works.

[MuleKicker]

Ok. Ive been thinkin bout this oakin thing. So more oak is better for the long haul? But it produces a woody flavor early on? Where does this flavor go? And like blanik said, He left it for 2 years (which in aging terms aint that long). If he would have left it for say... 5+ years would it have gotten better? Do the good flavors come out later in aging and over power the shitty wood flavor?

[Bull Rider]

MuleKicker, thanks for asking these questions, I've been wondering the same. Seems like Kiwistiller and Barney Fife have good notes on oaking. I have some UJSM that's coming up on a year aging. It would be great to know how to improve my product without having to do seven year long experiments.

Bull.

[MuleKicker]

Hell ya bull. I dont want to wait seven + years to find out i got shit. No bull.

The stuff i got agin now I know it was good white. It had a smooth corny flavor. Never tasted another mans whitedog (other than Georgia moon PUKE!) Mine tasted good. So if i screw it up, i know its on the oaking end of things. It dont taste the greatest right now. Im wondering if i messed up bad. I dont have that much oak in the bottles, wondering if I should add more? Its got decent color at 55%. when I cut a glass down to 45% to drink the color gets kinda weak.

I had the pleasure of tasting another memeber's UJSSM aged 5 yrs. That was an eye opener. It was some very good shit. Lets just say, it set the bar high for me.

Keep it real

[blanikdog]

Good question, mule. I wondered the same thing after reading barney's post.

[MuleKicker]

im gonna toast a couple more oak sticks at 450F (cuz thats the temp that the most vanilla flavor comes through, according to that toasting chart) and throw it in one of my bottles. I dont mind waiting longer, if it makes better booze. And there is only one way to find out, that is to do it. I will need to taste the product about once a month to taste the changes, maybe longer. I will report back in 5+ years with the results.

[Hdflhx]

I put a couple more gallons up today. I went back to the four sticks 1/2" x 1/2" x 6" heavily charred per half gallon for these and plan on leaving them long term. What Barney says about the hooch picking up the more volatile flavors first makes sense to me as these flavors should be the easiest to get at. We'll see.

Barney, when you say you use "lots of oak", how much and what size sticks are you talking about?

[castleclr]

Having some gallons going on 3 years in a toasted barrell, (That has been used and emptied and rinsed several times before my testers said the tree taste went away), I will side with a little goes a long way, yes it does have to stay there for the long haul, and time changes everything for the better.

I also blend some of the longer oaked with fresh white dog and it comes off acceptable to the judges.

We also prefer a char to a lite or dark toast

Saying all that, it really is what appeals to your taste buds, what you blend or age up might be the newest and bestest thing to come along.

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