Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

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Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:02 pm

Wheated Bourbon
55% Corn
30% Malted Wheat(20% White/10% Red)
15% Malted 2 Row Barley

Distilled in April/May/June 2013
1-12, 17-20, Jarred July 06, 2013
13-16, Jarred September 29th 2013
22-25, Jarred October 4th 2013
Target distillation strength was 75%
Overall Strength before dilution is 76.5-77%ABV
Diluted to 55% ABV with FIJI water
Lincoln County Process = Run through Sugar Maple charcoal at 62.5%ABV
Everything is in 750mL unless otherwise noted

Rating Jar Recipe Aging Date Jarred
1 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) American Oak(MT/5g/55%) 2013/07/06
2 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) American Oak(MT/10g/55%) 2013/07/06
3 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) American Oak(HC/5g/55%) 2013/07/06
4 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) American Oak(LC/5g/55%/LCP) 2013/07/06
5 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) French Oak(MT/5g/55%) 2013/07/06
6 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) French Oak(MT/10g/55%) 2013/07/06
7 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) French Oak(HC/5g/55%) 2013/07/06
8 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) French Oak(LC/5g/55%/LCP) 2013/07/06
85+ 9 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Hungarian Oak(MT/5g/55%) 2013/07/06
85+ 10 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Hungarian Oak(MT/10g/55%) 2013/07/06
85+ 11 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Hungarian Oak(MT w LC/5g/55%) 2013/07/06
85+ 12 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Hungarian Oak(MT/5g/55%/LCP) 2013/07/06
85+ 13 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Japanese Oak(MT/4g/55%) 2013/09/29
85+ 14 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Japanese Oak(MT/10g/55%) 2013/09/29
85+ 15 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Japanese Oak(HC/6g/55%) 2013/09/29
85+ 16 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Japanese Oak(LC/6g/55%/LCP) 2013/09/29
17 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Sugar Maple(MT/5g/55%) 2013/07/29
18 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Sugar Maple(MT/10g/55%) 2013/07/29
19 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Sugar Maple(MT/5g/55%/LCP) 2013/07/29
90 20 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Cherry(MT/5g/55%) 2013/07/29
85 21 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) None n/a
22 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) American Oak(MT/35g/62.5%) 2013/07/06
23 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) American Oak(MT w LC/35g/62.5%) 2013/07/06
90+ 24 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Pear(MT w LC/11g in 375mL/58%) 2013/10/04
95 25 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Crabapple(MT w LC/12g in 375mL/58%) 2013/10/04
90+ 26 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Pear(MT w HC/11g in 375mL/58%) 2013/10/04
95 27 Wheated Bourbon(55/30/15) Crabapple(MT w HC/10g in 375mL/58%) 2013/10/04 DEAD(Very GOOD)

Abbreviations: MT=Medium Toast; LC=Light Char; HC=Heavy Char; LCP=Lincoln County Process

55% Corn
30% Malted Wheat(20% White/10% Red)
15% Malted 2 Row Barley

100lbs Grain
55lbs. Corn($79.75)
20lbs. Malted Red Wheat($27.60)
10lbs. Malted White Wheat($14.00)
15lbs. Malted 2 Row Barley($12.00)
-----------------
$133.35


Ferment Corn/Barley on the grain
*Rack into keg
*Corn/Water to 160 degrees
*Add Barley(150-158 degrees)


Follow mashing steps on Wheat
*ferment wheat liquid in conical
*Rack into Keg
*10 minutes at 168 to stop enzymatic activity

-----------------------------------------------------------
1st Batch 20 lb Red wheat(10 Gallons water)
*hot tap water, let it sit out semi-covered overnite
*ground grain

1.Heated water to 117degrees, tossed in 20lbs Malted Red Wheat
2.beta glucanase rest at 113F(25 minutes)
3.Turned on burner raise temperature to 131 degree for Protease rest(25 minutes)
*stirred constantly so as not to scorch grain on bottom
4.Turned on burner raise temperature to 147(45 minutes)
*stirred constantly so as not to scorch grain on bottom
*had to turn burner on(and keep stirring to keep it in temp range)

1.056 at 98 degrees
EC-1118

2nd Batch 10 lb Malted White Wheat(5 Gallons water)
*hot tap water, let it sit out semi-covered overnite
*ground grain

1.Heated water to 117degrees, tossed in 20lbs Malted Red Wheat
2.beta glucanase rest at 113F(25 minutes)
3.Turned on burner raise temperature to 131 degree for Protease rest(25 minutes)
*stirred constantly so as not to scorch grain on bottom
4.Turned on burner raise temperature to 147(45 minutes)
*stirred constantly so as not to scorch grain on bottom

1.056 at 98 degrees
Correction 1.060(if FG is 1.000=7.88%ABV)
EC-1118
-----------------------------------------------------------
***USE LOWER GRAIN/WATER RATIO NEXT TIME ON CORN***
***TRY RICE HULLS***

Batch 3
22 lb Corn/Barley(11 Gallons water) Flaked Corn 17.281lb/Malted 2 Row barley 4.719lb
*hot tap water, let it sit out semi-covered overnite
*ground grain(malted Barley)

1.heated water to 170 added corn, dropped temp to 150
*set timer for 30 minutes
*stirred every 10 minutes(3 times)
2.Add Barley, stir, set timer for 45 minutes
*Stir every 10 minutes
*keep it between 140-150

Batch 4
12 lb Corn/Barley(6 Gallons water) Flaked Corn 9.426lb/Malted 2 Row barley 2.574lb
*hot tap water, let it sit out semi-covered overnite
*ground grain(malted Barley)

1.heated water to 170 added corn, dropped temp to 150
*set timer for 30 minutes
*stirred every 10 minutes(3 times)
2.Add Barley, stir, set timer for 45 minutes
*Stir every 10 minutes
*keep it between 140-150
*added 1qt 154degree water to help make it more viscous and raise the temp a little

1.066 at 72 degrees
correction 1.066(if FG is 1.000=8.58%ABV)
1.016(should get .45 Gal 100%ABV)
3 packets EC-1118
-----------------------------------------------------------
5th Batch
50lbs grain
*35.993(Flaked Corn)
*9.807(Malted Barley)
*2.800(Malted White Wheat)
*2.100(Malted Red Wheat)

1. 25 gallons hot water left overnight(chlorine removal)
2. Heated water to 180degrees(for a target of 160 on the flaked maize)
*saved about 2 gallons from under the valve in the keg
3. mixed corn in real good knocked out clumps
*let sit for 60minutes or so(temp dropped to 145 with all the stirring
4.added in barley/wheat
*heated the 2 gallons saved for a target temp of 145(I hit 144)
*used calculator to figure out temp
*let it sit for 60 minutes, stirred every 20 minutes

1.064 at 72 degrees(should get 8.32%ABV)
1.000 should get 2.08 Gal 100%ABV)
-----------------------------------------------------------
6th batch
50lbs grain
*27.50(Flaked Corn)
* 7.500(Malted Barley)
*10.000(Malted White Wheat)
* 5.000(Malted Red Wheat)

1.Left 28 gallons of hot tap water overnight
2.Heated water to 190-200, put 27.5lbs corn in 6 bags, tied them shut then tied a longer string to outside
3.pulled up bags mashed them to break up starch balls at 30 minutes






***********************************************************
Batch 1 and 2 combined 11.5 Gallons of wash
ended with 11.25 Gallons Final Gravity 1.016 at 68 degrees 5.78%ABV

Increase element ~20% for 10 minutes
~40% for 10 minutes(AFTER heatup this seemed to hold it around 172degrees)
~60% for 10 minutes
~80% for 10 minutes(column still at 60degrees, pot feels warm, but not hot)
~100% for 20 minutes(puked ran it too hard)

Estimated yield: 2.16 Gallons @30%ABV
Actual Yield: 2.15 Gallons @37%ABV
***********************************************************
Batch 3 and 4 combined 14 Gallons of wash(ended with 13 gallons, left out last gallon of yeast)
ended with ____ Gallons Final Gravity 1.0__ at __ degrees ___%ABV

***FEEL COLUMN FOR HEAT***
Increase Element ~80% for ~45 minutes
~40% for ~30 minutes
~adjusted to keep a small flow going


Estimated Yield: 3.00 Gallons @30%ABV
Actual Yield: 3.00 Gallons @36%ABV
***********************************************************
Last edited by magnetic_tarantula on Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:26 pm

Feel free to ask any questions. I will do my best to answer.

So related things/stories......

Japanese Oak is a bitch to track down. I have 2 large blocks. It leaves a spicy flavor. I like it and one of my friends it is her favorite.

My favorite is the Pear./Crabapple. They are both very distinct and different.

I have had a group of about 10 people try these and they all rave about them. It is for me one of the highest compliments to have people who drop $800 on a bottle of Bourbon tell me this is something special. They believe a lot of it is in the base product itself and then adding the different woods into it is a bonus. My take on it is that this is something that money cannot buy. You cannot get 20 of the 27 of these on the shelf anywhere no matter how many benjamins you have.

The Cherry was a wood that everyone commented on, not their favorite but very interesting and good. It was suggested I try different cherry woods. I have found Black Cherry, Wild Cherry and am looking for one more common cherry.

My goal of all this was to find the interaction between different woods and a same base product. Ultimately as someone the goal would be to oak/barrel product and finish with the different woods. I don't believe you can really do that unless you know the influence of each wood on the same product.

I dislike drinking the same thing every night. I have tried around 400 Whiskies and find love in the variety of different flavors. I past the point of caring what is available on the shelf as it is basically similar tasting(though a Heaven Hill 15 year old is heads above almost anything, Aberlour A'bunadh can't be beat for sherried blending......).

French Oak was bought from a wine wood supplier.

Hungarian oak was bought in cubes from a brewing supply.

If you are seeking out various woods for aging look at wood turning suppliers(ask if it is acceptable for food applications). Often times looking on ebay is the easiest and cheapest route. As you can see the amount of wood used is minimal something along the lines of 1 cubic inch. A 6 inch 3/4" stick has enough wood for like 3 or 4 jars.

Everyone felt like the Lincoln County Process came out smoother but also lost some flavor in the process.

In the future I will age in 375mL jars so that I have enough extra to figure which are the best that I want to replicate and have an extra bottle or 6.
Last edited by magnetic_tarantula on Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:27 pm

Sorry for the lack of formatting by the way.......I tried.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by LBHD » Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:20 am

Cool info -

Crabapple tree is in the same family as apple - I can't get crabapple wood anywhere, but I could try with regular apple bbq chipped wood? Maybe toast + char that?

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:05 am

My next experiment is going to involve Rye and I will be including Apple and Crabapple to see if there is a discernible difference. I'm really not sure.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by LBHD » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:12 pm

The flip side to my observation is that there are many many quercus varieties, but quercus alba is the preferable variety for oaks.. so there can be a lot of variation as far as suitability would go within the same genus.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:39 pm

My next experiment I have laid out 25+ woods with 5 levels of toast/char.

Of the fruitwoods within each type of fruit I have sought out as many different species as I could. At most that is only 3 I think. I.e. Red/white pear (probably Bosch and Asian??), multiple plum/apple/cherry species. I know as far as fruit goes I love Honeycrisp apples above all else. I would like to see if the taste difference is discernible.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by Steep-n-Rocky » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:15 pm

Great job with these experiments. Thank you for both trying something new and reporting on the results. I am tempted to try crabapple myself. Have you ever considered mulberry?

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:23 pm

I thought in my suitable woods thread someone mentioned mulberry has possible toxin issues if sap isn't cleared??

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by Steep-n-Rocky » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:57 am

Mulberry is used for barrels in Europe and I have tried it with palinka. I have not tried it with whiskey however. I may try a millet batch and replicate your experiment with some local woods. I figure we can all buy bourbon and scotch at prices that are hard to beat. We, however get the chance to experiment and try things that no one can buy. Thanks again for your findings!

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:36 am

That's ultimately what this was.....I want to experimention with single malt barley, single malt wheat (red and white), by the time I am done I will likely have 1000+ bottles to choose from.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by LBHD » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:42 pm

MT - was your crabapple wood local or did you get it from a woodturning site? I can find Pear but no dice on crabapple heartwood

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by Fidget » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:36 am

magnetic_tarantula wrote:My next experiment I have laid out 25+ woods with 5 levels of toast/char.

Of the fruitwoods within each type of fruit I have sought out as many different species as I could. At most that is only 3 I think. I.e. Red/white pear (probably Bosch and Asian??), multiple plum/apple/cherry species. I know as far as fruit goes I love Honeycrisp apples above all else. I would like to see if the taste difference is discernible.

Have you heard of Swiss Pear? I ask as It seems easy to find, but has been steamed for colour enhancement, maybe that's not a bad thing tho...

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:55 pm

I have........keep in mind my next experiementry is in the range of 120 to 130 375ml jars......I can only get so extensive.....that is about 3 months of every weekend.weekend distilling/mashing to me

I will keep an eye out for the next experimentioned though. Someone also suggested a variety of different species of oaks.....I'm interested in trying that one

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:47 am

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The #2 and #3 jars tasted pretty good. #4 was a little flat....smoother but bland er as well. 2 was just an amplified version of 1 because of double the oak influence. In future experiments I will go with 10 grams instead of 5. I prefer 2 over 3 and the lack of char (though I liked both). I got a lot of maple syrup and vanillins on the nose.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by LBHD » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:40 pm

Another couple of woods - orange tree wood and persimmon wood!

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by jloftin60 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:03 pm

What about peach wood? Has anyone tried peach wood for aging and if so, what were the results?

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:18 pm

I have it lined up for my next experiment.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:39 pm

2015-01-17 20.32.32.jpg
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I think this is very similar to the American Oak. The French oak appears to have a warmer spicier flavor. This had a bit of a bite to it. I wasn't too fond of it, I thought I would like these the most as one of my favorite whiskies is Glenlivet 15 yr French Oak Reserve. The flipside is Makers 46 is finished with French oak staves, and I am not super fond of it. Once again I found the flavor of the sugar maple charcoal filtered to be noticably muted and more bland, but smoother.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by Fills Jars Slowly » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:15 pm

Wonderful stuff! Thanks for documenting experiments like this. We can all benefit from this kind of data. Opinions are great, we all have one, but what happened is what happened :thumbup:

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:26 pm

I guess i could've mentione I prefer 7 over 6/5 and definitely over 8

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:08 pm

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These are all aged with Hungarian Oak cubes. I can tell right off the bat this is much more fragrant. From 2 ffeet away I can smell these whiskies. Very pleasant on the nose.

On the nose I think 12 to 9 is my favorite. 12 being a little sweeter.

On the tongue it's sweet with a spicy kick. Surprisingly I fond 10 to have less kick and be a little smoother, but more flavor. On the other Oaks I have preferred the Heavy Char profile. While it isn't unpleasant in this I would say I prefer 10, 9 then 11. I have to wonder if it is because these are smaller cubes ra th her than chunks of wood. I charred cubes individually woth a torch, but I think that means overall there is more square inches of char overall. 12 is pleasant.....but same kind of muted.

Good aftertaste on 11 though....keeps on giving.....SOB won't go away (thank god its pleasant). Very sweet not sickly sweet, but sweet nonetheless. 12 has a good aftertaste too, as good as 11. I think I prefer the Hungarian Oaks over the American/French.

I'm psyched to try the Japanese Oaks next.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by MitchyBourbon » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:03 am

Awesome info, really. Must have taken a long time to accomplish all this.

I do have a couple questions. Did you really pay $79 for 55 lbs of corn? If comparing aging woods, why complicate the experiment with the Lincoln County process? If fermenting on the grain, why would you denature the enzymes with high temp water? I realize that any extra conversion is miniscule, it just that distillers don't usually do a mash out to stop enzyme activitie.

Again, great write up.
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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:29 am

I was fairly new to distilling. I had rather all barley washes, rum, and a few other mixed. I did some stuff simply.out of ignorance. Nowadays I don't boil (the main reason for boiling is not to denature but to kill bacteria....I don't worry about that now.

I did pay 79bux for flaked corn in July of 2013.....is that expensive? I like the flavor over cracked.corn from the feed store.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by MitchyBourbon » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:51 pm

I guess $79 for 55 lbs "flaked corn" isn't bad compared to the $2.29 they charge per lb at my local brew shop. I was thinking you paid that for plain yellow dent cracked corn. I can get 50 lbs of cracked corn for $8 to $12 just about any where.
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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:18 pm

Also with the lincoln county process i had simply wanted to try the whole process out. I won't be doing it again(though i probably have enough charcoal left to make a few more bottles). With the Hungarian Oak I think it paired better than the 1st two.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:30 am

2015-01-24 14.05.47.jpg
13 is very spicy, lots of flavor. A bit harsh but pleasantly so. I like this one.....definitely good. As you can see little is left as it was one of my friends favorites, luckily she moved away or we probably would have drained it.
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14 has a lot more flavor and harsher still. Not ands much a favorite but still good. These are both so very different than anything I have tried that would be called Bourbon
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spicier and livelier than the other two. My least favorite of the 4.
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this was by far my favorite. I was very surprised.I had believed that the muted flavor would be an issue with this, I think it actually works in its favor as the flavors were on the harsh side. I think this one is great and is actually one of the best of the 27. Sweet and spicy just how I like it. Good like finding any Japanese Oak. I found my block in the UK a couple years ago. I see a couple on ebay but he has treated them with linseed oil I believe.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by shadylane » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:15 pm

I really appreciate the work your doing for us.
But why the aluminum foil under the jar lids ?

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:33 pm

High proof alcohol.....the lids on mason jars have some sort of plastic underneath the lids.....uncertain of whether it'll leech into the alcohol.....aluminum should be fine and impart no flavor.

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Re: Wood Experiment:Wheated Bourbon recipe on 8 woods

Post by Fidget » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:21 pm

I'd be interested to see photos of some of,your pieces,of wood, charred, toasted, to see their size shape and textures...

I have now 12x2x2 inch of each Cherry and Pear, both untreated...trying to decide how to break down and alter them for use with 400 to 800 ml sized batches.

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