A Tale of Two Bourbons

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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Jimbo
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:11 pm

buflowing wrote:
Jimbo wrote: I have a bottle of Jim Beam Black thats 8 years old and still has a hell of a spank. Knob creek is 9 years old and has that same fresh wood varnish character, but somehow balances this wood resin varnish thing with smoothness and incredible drinkability.
looks like someone's done his homework.
http://bourbonr.com/blog/what-affects-a-bourbons-taste/
haha. Its funny they're both Beam products but taste so much different. The marketing story is Booker created Knob Creek to harken back pre-prohibiton big bold flavors, bla bla. I dont know whats really different between Jim Beam and Knob Creek, or whether they even come off the same spigot or not. But Id like to believe its a different recipe, maybe aged differently, certainly longer, and bottled hotter at 100p. Whatever they do or dont do different Knob 9yr is certainly different than Beam 8yr. As are the 3 other Beam small batch brands, Bookers, Bakers and Basil Haydens. They are either masters of disguise, marketing geniuses or master chef's in the kitchen. Probably all 3.
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der wo
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by der wo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:16 pm

I think it's only choosing the best barrels. Better barrels from better places in the warehouse.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:41 pm

der wo wrote:I think it's only choosing the best barrels. Better barrels from better places in the warehouse.
To make 4 distinct small batch brands from Jim Beam whiskey? Maybe, the big guys know its all about shelf space. But seems there's more going on than that. We need an insider to give us the straight poop.
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der wo
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by der wo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:58 pm

Jimbo wrote:
der wo wrote:I think it's only choosing the best barrels. Better barrels from better places in the warehouse.
To make 4 distinct small batch brands from Jim Beam whiskey? Maybe, the big guys know its all about shelf space. But seems there's more going on than that. We need an insider to give us the straight poop.
With million barrels, yes. At least Horst Lüning (the maior seller for whisky in Germany. He has made about almost every whisky a tasting video and videos of visits of all important distilleries and has tons of other information on his website) says that in his German video about Knob creek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFMkhEa--kY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

He has also an English website. But I don't know, if there is the same information:
https://www.whisky.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

But don't understand me wrong. I don't want to criticize it. Knob Creek is not my favorite Bourbon, but I think it's a good Bourbon and worth the extra money.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by buflowing » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:05 pm

What the link says is what I've understood, and that is they are the same juice. That was the point of the homework. Side by side comparison to examine the effects of time and aging location on the same distillate. Fun stuff. Just like your experiments/experiences.

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by buflowing » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:11 pm

Buffalo Trace is right up front on their tours identifying rickhouse and level for each brand. Blantons here, Eagle rare there. Etc, etc. I think you've seen the effect of storage conditions on your own juice. Can you imagine the differences you get when you have so many different locations to store your bazzilion barrels of goodness? Lots of opportunity to make many brands (and price points).

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by Jimbo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:21 pm

Yes, agreed, Hot at the top, cooler and damper at the bottom will result in huge difference. But 4 craft small batch brands squeezed out of barrel locations? (Knob, Basil Haydens, Booker and Bakers). Seems excessive.

Maybe they use one cooper for one brand and a different cooper for another (Minnesota Oak vs Arkansas oak?) Probably not, and Im probably just over romanticising this stuff.

At the end of the day its probably the business man maximizing shelf space. Given 30 bourbons on the shelf, youll sell more if 5 of them are yours than if 1 or 2 are. Thats pretty simple math. Not very romantic, but probably closer to the truth than any romantic notions of recipes and genus.

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by buflowing » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:39 pm

If you saw the size of their operation and their rickhouses spread all over the place constructed of different materials, you would better appreciate it. Add a couple different mash bills, entry proof, and age to the mix, you get lots of variation.

For a real treat, take the time to go down to Kentucky and soak it all in. I'm going back for my third visit this spring. Yes, it's that good.

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by WIski » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:52 pm

Buflowing, drove right through there once. Wanted to do the trail so bad. Lesson learned..... Go with your gut.....not the passanger side air bag. :shh:

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by buflowing » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:57 pm

Small craft distilleries are fun, but the big guys have been at it for a long time. Lots to learn there if you pay attention. Bonus: it's beautiful country, and damn, bourbon flights are fun.
Last edited by buflowing on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by buflowing » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:04 pm

Jim, I think this fits in with your thread theme. Yes, it's a repeat, but worth seeing again.
Bourbon+Tree.pdf
(255.31 KiB) Downloaded 94 times

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der wo
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by der wo » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:40 pm

To have for any wallet size a product, maximizes profit and rises the pressure on the other brands.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by Windy City » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:54 pm

I just picked up a new scale to weigh grains and barrels. I thought this was interesting. Two Gibbs 10 gal barrels filled to capacity with the exact same 65abv rum. Approximately 3 pound difference. Both barrels bought at the same time.
Possible moisture content difference even though both were soaked the same or possible wood density difference. The once used barrel was three pounds heavier.
Either way I thought it was interesting and figured I would share.
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by DFitz » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:34 pm

Ha! One of the angels passed out in the barrel

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Jimbo
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by Jimbo » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:05 pm

Ill post this here since we were discussing starting up a new craft 'stillery below, and its my thread.

Had dinner and drinks with an old friend last night and we talked about the risks of leaving a comfortable job that pays well to embark on a crazy new venture, like starting up a new distillery. We came up with the following graph sketched on the paper table cover to depict the situation, for your enjoyment.

Red is keep working for the man and pursue nothing.
Blue is go for it, and fail.
Green is go for it, and succeed.
TrajectoryofLife.jpg
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
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Re: A Tale of Two Bourbons

Post by Fart Vader » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Eh...
Your wife hasn't seen this yet?

But that pretty much sums it up.
The bank account will follow those graphs very closely too I suspect.
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