Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

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contrahead
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Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by contrahead »

Some people who believe that there is only one proper way to age liquor may fail to critically analyze what is really happening as a spirit matures. In the real world there is a whole lot more floating around inside new white spirit than just water and ethanol. There may be hundreds or even thousands of specifically different, unique molecule arrangements suspended in the average new white dog. Collectively similar molecules within that spirit might comprise a group large enough to be independently identified and labeled as a “fusel oil”, “congener”, “ester”, “lipid” or “aldehyde”. Aging or maturation is a process that breaks up the over-sized molecules, averages things out and in the long run hopefully delivers a mellow, smooth taste.

Molecules which are built of bonded atoms are always in movement; they travel, they vibrate and they collide with surrounding molecules. The thermodynamic theoretical lowest limit of temperature is where molecules or atoms in fact cease to move or vibrate. Such a condition where molecules don't move, cannot or has not been created yet by any scientist attempting to create a state of zero heat energy. Absolute zero is the low end limit of temperature scale but there is no corresponding upper limit. Whether a substance is a gas, liquid or solid, its “heat”corresponds to the actual energy state of molecules within that substance.
snow4.jpg
It has been said that no two snowflakes are identical. During the construction of a snowflake, humidity in the atmosphere builds up around a unique dust particle and ice crystals begin to grow. If the air is cold and the time aloft is short then the snowflake may be small. If the temperature is optimum, moisture plentiful and the time aloft is appropriate then snowflakes may become humongous because they have a chance to collide and bond with other snowflakes before their descent is terminated. Once on the ground and surrounded and crushed in by other snow though, the ice crystals slowly begin to change. Depending on climate and location the crystals might morph for weeks, months or longer. It is the extended appendages and sharp, pointed edges of new snowflakes (or the congener molecules in new make spirits) that get melted, broken or rounded off first, just like sharp rock fragments rolling down a stream bed get rounded into gravel in geologic time.
lipp6.jpg
Take a lipid as an example of a naturally occurring molecule suspended in your moonshine after distillation. Fats, certain vitamins, glycerides, sterols and waxes are some examples of lipids. These lipids are generally soluble only in non-polar solvents (like chloroform, diethyl ether, pentane, hexane, benzene and toluene). In polar solvents like ethanol and water though, these sociable lipids join together and can present themselves as veritably huge clusters or globs in suspension that eventually become visible to the naked eye as cloudy liquor. Often cloudy liquor is caused by slime from previous runs - deposited upon the inside surfaces of the still. Like mucus in a nostril. If not cleaned periodically the unclean metal surfaces cease to entrap these undesirable built-up snowflakes (sorry: lipid compounds and other nasty s) from the rising vapor. Cloudy spirit can be clarified by breaking the clods up into smaller pieces somehow, by filtration, by re-distillation with cleaner equipment or by years of interaction inside a wooden barrel.

Ion exchange

What our eyes cannot see is the ion interaction occurring between compounds within our moonshine soup. After distillation: the ethanol, water, ketones, aldehydes, furanones, fufurals, polythiols, polypeonols, low molecular weight esters and various other unknown molecules both big or small within this soup will continue to vibrate, collide and interact by exchanging electrons. The potential for interaction and ion exchange is high immediately following distillation. At this point the modern distiller has options that weren't historically available. “Maturity” probably marks the decline of most ion exchanges within the smooth tasting final spirit. The time of confinement within a vessel though, is a poor indicator of maturity.

Placing new make spirit within a container stored at near absolute zero will practically discourage any changes from occurring. On the other hand applying almost any penetrating external energy will encourage that ion exchange – that “aging process” to speed up. External energy can be introduced in the form of heat, sunlight, ultrasonic sound waves, microwaves and probably atomic radiation and every other form of electromagnetic radiation not already mentioned. Spirit in a jar with its oaking stick will mature much faster when sitting in a sun exposed window sill, than it would if it were just kept in a cool dark room. If you strapped a loudspeaker from a radio or stereo to a keg of hooch and just played music to it, the process would not be efficient but the contents would almost have to mature faster than by not doing so. Charcoal or another absorbent can be pulverized into smaller particulate, increasing the surface area and rate of activity; then be filtered out afterwards.

Oak

There is no mystery or magic to aging wine, beer or spirit in a wooden barrel. There is nothing special about oak either; other than it is a structurally strong and workable material that is importantly less permeable or porous than most other types of wood originally available. Historically, liquid holding “dry tight” oak barrels were containers of necessity. Before the Industrial Revolution people did not have affordable, thin press rolled metals to to construct containers with. There were no plastics either. Glassware bulk containers were not feasible but clay amphora were. Some 2,000 years ago the Romans however ditched their wine transporting amphora to adopt wooden barrels from the beer drinking Gauls, who in turn got the idea from the Celtic inventors. Not having any better liquid holding bulk containers until recent times, it is only natural that the most valuable liquids like distilled spirits would be stored in wood also. The fact that a wooden hogshead might impart some valuable characteristics to booze was probably underappreciated in previous centuries. Cask aging can become a very romanticized notion today, one that at times has be carried a bit too far.

Unnecessarily slow process

Scotch must by current regulation, be aged a minimum of three years. Sometimes it takes more like 10 to 12 years to age the wrinkles and sharp taste out of the original spirit. The reason is because out of desperation the new spirit is put into used, second hand barrels. Great Britain completely denuded its island of oak wood a couple of centuries ago, in the process of building ships. Because of the untenable cost new barrels would impose, Scotch distilleries found it practical to purchase pre-exploited Sherry and Bourbon cask. Usually this works out to the Scotch maker's advantage because the new spirit can absorb desirable flavor characteristics from the previously stored spirit, but to a lesser degree from the wood. But when Scotch makers reuse an old barrel for a third or fourth time, much less ion exchange will occur with the barrel and proper maturation takes much longer. It is legal and common to add a bit of caramel coloring to Scotch to make up for the fact that so little interaction might be occurring between the new spirit and the already saturated walls of a pre-used cask. The inside walls, to a certain depth in such a used cask would already be clogged with congeners, lipids and whatever else. Activated charcoal entraps undesirable molecules in a similar way. To effectively and efficiently speed up the process of maturation some Scotch distilleries have resorted to resurfacing their older barrels.

During the traditional construction of a cask, coopers thoroughly soaked wooden boards in water before steaming and bending them over the flames of a fire. Naturally, most oak barrels thus formed would be charred on the inside. Bourbon is generally a “loud” and dark tinted liquor compared to Scotch mainly because it must be aged in a brand new, charred barrel. Not all Scotch whiskey barrels are leftover Bourbon barrels though because sometimes they like to use sherry butts made of European oak woods instead. These hold more than twice the volume of Bourbon barrels. Used, saturated sherry butts can trap and hold as much as 10 liters of fortified wine after being “emptied”. Back in the good old days Scotch distilleries could still afford to buy sherry butts. Nowadays though such cask are usually reused by the Spanish sherry makers until they rot or fall apart. The pores of European oak are less densely knit than American oak incidentally; allowing more spirit to escape or for more oxidization to occur. The production of flavors in fortified wines like sherry, port, Madeira and Marsala are more driven by oxidization than by any particular wood the cask might be made of.

“Sherry” of course is an Anglicization of Jerez, a city in Spain. “Port” is named after Porto, Portugal which famously shipped barges of sweet wine down river to the sea. Marsala is produced in a town on the tip end of Sicily, Italy. Speaking of Madeira, it is named after a Portuguese island in the Atlantic that was an important “port of call” for resupplying sailing ships in previous centuries. One of Madeira's most valuable commodities was its excellent fortified wine, which was made as quickly as possible because of its high demand. Both affluent Europeans and colonial Americans drank it like kids drink soda pop today. The vintners deliberately rolled their fortified wine filled barrels out into the direct, hot sun and left them there – to age more quickly than was possible by being stored inside.

Exposure to oxygen usually diminishes the amount of esters in wines. How much oxidization should be proper for the maturation of distilled spirits is a study that requires more investigation. Even gravity influences liquor maturation. In space experiments they have recently discovered that weightlessness removes convection, which may not necessarily be desirable for aging liquor.

The “aging” of liquor then is much more than a straight line vector expressed merely by the passage of time. “Maturation” more effectively describes the process we seek, a comfortably smooth tasting and sophisticated liquor. Excessive intellectual energy in the form of innumerable magazine articles, books and web blogs has been spent in attempts to explain time-honored cask aging. The venerable, handed-down methods of aging liquors do work and are commendable, but can be needlessly slow on occasion. Maturation simply involves plain physical, electrical and chemical processes; some of which can be accelerated and improved upon. The popular perception that excellent maturation of a liquor can only be achieved in a slow conventional way is flawed, fundamentally.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by seamusm53 »

To hell with science. This is poetry.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Antler24 »

By no means am I saying your wrong, but if it can be sped up, why hasn't anyone successfully done it, with the same results?
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get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Expat »

Sure, the concept of impossible is flawed, anything is possible, but its not practical.

In theory it would be possible to engineer a yeast strain which directly produced the same molecules found in an 25yo single malt whisky, they are after all, only organic compounds rearranged. It hasn't happened because its vastly less complicated to simply age the whiskey.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by contrahead »

Antler24 wrote:By no means am I saying your wrong, but if it can be sped up, why hasn't anyone successfully done it, with the same results?
They have to a degree. The only easily found partial proof I can get quickly though, was witten a year ago.
Quote:
“Eight trained judges, including some of the researchers, deemed the resulting spirits nearly as good as traditional brandies. “They tasted surprisingly well, with good fruity and sweet flavors and a high aromatic intensity,” García said.”
<source>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physi ... three-days" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

-----
Several whiskey distilleries rotate the kegs in a rackhouse with a fork lift because the hot ones at top mature much faster than those at bottom do. I'll <link to an example> for two reasons. First because the picture is owned by someone else and secondly the only pictures that can be stored on this forum must be less than a small 800 x 800 pixels. The sign on the rack near the top right corner reads: "Barrels at the top of a rackhouse age at an accelerated pace - Proof Raises"

Notice what an established distillery posted inside its own building (age can be accelerated).
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by HDNB »

nice food for thought.
however you lost me at the last para. "aging" is a straight line... the passage of time ages. Nothing else "ages"

now maturation, i'm with you there. there is a lot of ways to a palatable spirit. I'm about to start some O3 and CO2 experiments that i hope to share.

I put down 3 different sizes of barrels in early December to see what happens there too, but it's too early to waste the time testing yet. The whole temperature thing is against me though, i got them stored in an unheated shed and it's pretty close to absolute zero out there now.

hope to see more experimental maturation results on the forum.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Cu29er »

.

The wine industry has aged product fast with blocks and chips for years. Seems like the whiskey industry has only started recently. I was on a tour of Makers Mark last summer and they were carefully experimenting with staves (basically roasted house-shingle-sized wood pieces) inside used barrels and presenting it as if it were magic. Of course, JD uses charcoal filtering.

Check out this product that started as a kickstarter project. https://www.timeandoak.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by jon1163 »

Antler24 wrote:By no means am I saying your wrong, but if it can be sped up, why hasn't anyone successfully done it, with the same results?
I think they do. I have read recently about two different distilleries to make Bourbons. One change their barrels and leaves them hanging and the customers that come into the Distillery pull the chains shaking the barrels. The other Distillery I heard of send some of their barrels out on ships or they move with the boat and change the aging process
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Oldvine Zin »

jon1163 wrote: The other Distillery I heard of send some of their barrels out on ships or they move with the boat and change the aging process
Maybe these guys http://chambersbaydistillery.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ? Last year at proof Washington (our local booze tasting event held here in Seattle) I have to say that their product was the most undrinkable at the event, and that was after the owner insisted on pouring his product through one of these https://www.zazzol.com/products/zazzol-wine-aerator" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow :roll: - but the barrels got to roll around with the tides in a attempt to reduce aging times. :crazy:


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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Antler24 »

jon1163 wrote:
Antler24 wrote:By no means am I saying your wrong, but if it can be sped up, why hasn't anyone successfully done it, with the same results?
I think they do. I have read recently about two different distilleries to make Bourbons. One change their barrels and leaves them hanging and the customers that come into the Distillery pull the chains shaking the barrels. The other Distillery I heard of send some of their barrels out on ships or they move with the boat and change the aging process
Jeffersons, The one who ages on ships it might do something for the flavour profile but it doesn't do anything to dramatically reduce aging time, it's just "aged at sea". Im not sure it does much other than set them apart from the norm. The guy with the hanging barrels, he's a member here. Again I don't think that's doing anything for changing the timeframe of the aging process by any significant amount.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

Good post. Of all the accelerated aging (maturation :ebiggrin: ) the ones I have tasted have been one dimensional. There is a new one, Lost Spirits, I would like to try. Their THEA (http://cocktailwonk.com/2015/09/unveili ... irits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) reactor seems to have people saying it's good.

I think the key is that maturation isn't one dimensional. It's a mixture of many chemical reactions. If you focus on one it will show through in the product.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Fruit Squeezer »

I've heard it rumored that you can "age" quicker by freezing and warming repetatively.

The theory goes, that bourbon makers store their barrels outside in sheds, exposed to temperature swings.
In summer the liquor thins and expands, getting pushed into the charred oak.
In winter, the liquor condenses and retracts, pulling the filtered liquor from the oak.
Forcing the liquor to expand and retract multiple times (in thory) would then "age" the liquor artificially.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Except time isn’t artificial and it only goes in one direction. If you can accelerate a barrel of whisky towards the speed of light - then we might have something to really clink our collective glasses over. E=mc^2. As an object approaches the speed of light then time slows down relative to other objects. This is actually opposite from what we really want but I guess it’s proof of concept that we can theoretically manipulate time and thus a barrel of ageing whisky.

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Oldvine Zin »

accelerated aging ≠ age
put some barrels down and enjoy if you live long enough, or let your kids enjoy long after you are gone :)

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Oldvine Zin »

contrahead wrote:
Antler24 wrote:By no means am I saying your wrong, but if it can be sped up, why hasn't anyone successfully done it, with the same results?
They have to a degree. The only easily found partial proof I can get quickly though, was witten a year ago.
Quote:
“Eight trained judges, including some of the researchers, deemed the resulting spirits nearly as good as traditional brandies. “They tasted surprisingly well, with good fruity and sweet flavors and a high aromatic intensity,” García said.”
<source>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physi ... three-days" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

-----
Several whiskey distilleries rotate the kegs in a rackhouse with a fork lift because the hot ones at top mature much faster than those at bottom do. I'll <link to an example> for two reasons. First because the picture is owned by someone else and secondly the only pictures that can be stored on this forum must be less than a small 800 x 800 pixels. The sign on the rack near the top right corner reads: "Barrels at the top of a rackhouse age at an accelerated pace - Proof Raises"

Notice what an established distillery posted inside its own building (age can be accelerated).
The photo that you linked to is just a rendering of a concept and is not real :roll:

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Fruit Squeezer wrote:I've heard it rumored that you can "age" quicker by freezing and warming repetatively.

The theory goes, that bourbon makers store their barrels outside in sheds, exposed to temperature swings.
In summer the liquor thins and expands, getting pushed into the charred oak.
In winter, the liquor condenses and retracts, pulling the filtered liquor from the oak.
Forcing the liquor to expand and retract multiple times (in thory) would then "age" the liquor artificially.
Still have to age it for a couple of years age = age oak extraction ≠ age

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by contrahead »

Oldvine Zin wrote: The photo that you linked to is just a rendering of a concept and is not real :roll:

OVZ
Your right. I searched online for quite a while, for a good picture of the interior of a rackhouse and could not find one. I liked this picture but it does look like part of it was doctored with Photoshop. That's not the point. The point is that distillery tours will flat out tell you that the barrels at the top of the sheds will age quicker. Then they explain that they annually rotate all their barrels with a forklift to resolve the situation. Other distilleries however might open all the uneven kegs at once and blend them together as one batch, before bottling.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Antler24 »

contrahead wrote:
Antler24 wrote:By no means am I saying your wrong, but if it can be sped up, why hasn't anyone successfully done it, with the same results?
They have to a degree. The only easily found partial proof I can get quickly though, was witten a year ago.
Quote:
“Eight trained judges, including some of the researchers, deemed the resulting spirits nearly as good as traditional brandies. “They tasted surprisingly well, with good fruity and sweet flavors and a high aromatic intensity,” García said.”
<source>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physi ... three-days" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

-----
Several whiskey distilleries rotate the kegs in a rackhouse with a fork lift because the hot ones at top mature much faster than those at bottom do. I'll <link to an example> for two reasons. First because the picture is owned by someone else and secondly the only pictures that can be stored on this forum must be less than a small 800 x 800 pixels. The sign on the rack near the top right corner reads: "Barrels at the top of a rackhouse age at an accelerated pace - Proof Raises"

Notice what an established distillery posted inside its own building (age can be accelerated).
The judges said it was NEARLY as good. That's not proof of anything. Moving barrels around in the rickhouses doesn't do anything to age faster, it's done for consistency.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Red Barn Distiller »

Fruit Squeezer wrote:I've heard it rumored that you can "age" quicker by freezing and warming repetatively.

The theory goes, that bourbon makers store their barrels outside in sheds, exposed to temperature swings.
In summer the liquor thins and expands, getting pushed into the charred oak.
In winter, the liquor condenses and retracts, pulling the filtered liquor from the oak.
Forcing the liquor to expand and retract multiple times (in thory) would then "age" the liquor artificially.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69249
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by badflash »

I know of 2 local distilleries that age in 1 gallon barrels. They make very good whiskey and it is only aged 6 months. They say that surface area is the key. I've tried tasted oak chips with diluted vodka and it came out pretty nice in just a month.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Stargazer14 »

"Jeffersons, The one who ages on ships it might do something for the flavour profile but it doesn't do anything to dramatically reduce aging time, it's just "aged at sea"


My barrels that I have rolling around in the trunk of my car age much faster than the ones left at home. I am sure aging on a constantly moving boats adds to the process
tho shaking them at home all day would have the same effect. And just saying 'aged on a ship' also adds much to the experience.

Nuking combined with oak trunk aging has produced wonderful results for me.
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by contrahead »

* I've been getting some impressive results just by putting clear jars or bottles (filled with spirits and oaking sticks) in a window sill and letting them set for a few months. Just like 'sun tea' is made (but it only takes one day to make sun tea)...(below)...
sun_tea.jpg

https://distilling.com/distillermagazin ... ted-aging/
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Daniel-J »

I have the means and the place, so I'm thinking of making a family tradition. I'll put a few barrels of wine in for 5 years and then if I live to enjoy the wine and repeat the process. Of course, there's a chance I'm going to get some terrible shit, but why not try it?

I saw that you touched on the topic of the wine aerator. Does it make sense in them at all? I don't feel any difference in taste. I'm talking about such wine aerators. If I don't feel the changes, it doesn't mean they don't exist, does it really make sense or doesn't it?
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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by The Baker »

Wine aerator works for me.

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by The Baker »

Maybe within your lifetime.

I will turn 79 in March...

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Re: Aging liquor sooner - within our lifetime

Post by Swedish Pride »

Plenty of miles in you yet Geoff, you're practically preserved in alcohol (If you done this hobby right)
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