Wrapping Barrels

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sampix
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Wrapping Barrels

Post by sampix »

I live in the desert where it is exceedingly hot - it will be 105-115 for the next few months - and very dry. RH right now is about 5% and that's pretty normal. Anyway, I'm about to fill my first five gallon barrel and I was worried about the angels getting a much larger share than they usually do given my climate. Would there be any drawback to wrapping the barrel in cling film/pallet wrap? I know there is supposed to be some interaction with the spirit and oxygen, but to my understanding this can be pretty subtle. I'm also not going to be aging it for years, so it wouldn't have that much of a chance to interact with oxygen anyway.

I've searched but I've never seen it discussed. Does wrapping it make sense? Thanks for any insight.
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by kiwi Bruce »

sampix wrote: Does wrapping it make sense? Thanks for any insight.
Yes it does...you could also set up a drip system (a swamp A/C) wrap the barrel in a old woolen blanket and place a 5 gallon bucket of water on top ( predrilled with a dozen 1/4 inch holes on the bottom side walls, about 1/2 up the wall from the bottom) the water soaked blanket lets the water evaporate in the heat and will keep your barrel 15 to 20 deg below the air temp, just re-fill the bucket every coupe of hours and you'll be right. Don't cover the the two heads as this will allow the spirit to breath.
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HDNB
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by HDNB »

desert angels are thirty bastards. i did a parrafin wax coat on a barrel and it has reduced evaporation considerably. no noticable off flavours at almost 2 years now.

i swell barrels with a plastic pallet wrap on them, works great. i have some aging with the wrap in place too. slows evap but wax is better. no word on weather it leaves a off flavour, only been 6-8 months. last time i stuck a finger n one it tasted fine but it was high 60's ABV...so really it tasted like booze.

we get the same problem here (but opposite), 0 humidity but cold as a witches teat...the water is literally frozen from the air.

and no, the ABV does not go up in dryness...it drops along with the water.
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cuginosgrizzo
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by cuginosgrizzo »

HDNB wrote: and no, the ABV does not go up in dryness...it drops along with the water.
I have no proof, but common understanding says the opposite:

http://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/wha ... els-share/
https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-scie ... els-share/
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still_stirrin
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by still_stirrin »

Thanks grizzo, those links are priceless and should become part of our knowledge base. Perhaps follow on readers won’t follow the links and read the thread, so I’m going to “copy & paste” an important part of the lesson.

Here: (to whomever reads this in a follow on)
“However, this alcohol percentage (63.5%ABV, as in “cask strength”) is equivalent to around 11 moles per liter (a mole is a convenient way of talking about numbers of molecules: one mole is 6.022 x 1023 molecules, to be exact). The concentration of water at 63.5% ABV is about 20 moles per liter. These differences are due to the different sizes (strictly speaking, masses) of the alcohol and water molecules. Alcohol molecules are bigger than water molecules, and so it takes fewer of them to occupy the same volume – they simply take up more space!

So, in the example of a 63.5% maturing Scotch whisky, water is close to twice the concentration of alcohol. But (the) alcohol is more volatile, so it evaporates more easily from the cask. In fact, the relative differences in the evaporation rate from the cask are dictated by the environmental conditions of the maturation warehouse.

If humidity is high in the warehouse, then the losses of water are slowed and alcohol is lost preferentially. This is the typical situation in Scotland, where relative humidity is often 80 – 90%. In drier climates, though, the losses of water can be faster than alcohol, resulting in an increase in alcohol concentration over time in the spirit maturing in the cask. So, humidity is the main driver of differences in the relative rates of alcohol and water losses from casks.

The overall losses due to the angels’ share are affected by three main factors:
1) The tightness of the cooperage
2) The amount of airflow within the warehouse
3) The ambient temperature profile.

These factors are, to some extent, self-explanatory. If the joins of the cask are not sufficiently tight, or indeed if there are any leaks, then, of course, volume losses will be greater.

If there is greater airflow within the warehouse, then the atmospheric concentrations of alcohol and water will be lower, which has the effect of speeding up evaporation from casks. (Also), the higher the ambient temperatures, the faster water and alcohol will evaporate. Think of drying laundry on a clothes-line. Breezy, warm days will dry the laundry more quickly than cooler, dank days.

Finally, it’s worth bearing in mind that there is more to maturing whiskey than alcohol and water.
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der wo
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by der wo »

I have read somewhere, an Indian Whisky distillery experiments with wrapping the barrels in plastic.
But honestly, if we don't allow to pour spirits through a plastic funnel here, probably wrapping a barrel in plastics breaks the same rule.
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HDNB
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by HDNB »

cuginosgrizzo wrote:
HDNB wrote: and no, the ABV does not go up in dryness...it drops along with the water.
I have no proof, but common understanding says the opposite:

http://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/wha ... els-share/
https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-scie ... els-share/
i read the same info and had the same understanding, but my alcometer does not agree. in fact one barrel lost over 2% abv over last winter. Imagine my surprise! I have not tested the others...apparently i'm gonna have to buy a bung extractor before that happens.
Relative humidity at winter temps is basically non-existent. but it's a cold dry, so maybe that makes the difference.

i left the plastic on out of lazyness. After writing that ^^^ and a bout of self flagellation, i cut it off earlier today to make good. (tasted the booze too, I think it's safe to keep :ebiggrin: )
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zed255
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by zed255 »

I would think something more acceptable than plastic wrap would be ideally beeswax, or secondarily paraffin wax. Brush on melted wax or rub in off a block of wax.
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by DAD300 »

I've used beeswax on the exterior to stop a leak in a barrel and have heard of others coating the entire INSIDE of the barrel.
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by zapata »

I dont think I'd do anything without knowing what will happen in your climate with a normal barrel. You have plenty of other things you can still have a lot of control. Barrels inside, or an outbuilding? A room with good airflow, or poor? Even a cardboard box to minimize airflow with no risk of contact at all?

Just seems like a full plastic wrap or beeswax coat is a solution to a problem that may not exist. If you are particularly worried you can minimize airflow, temperature, or even locally increase humidity pretty easily. Personally I'd start with just deciding where to age it to establish a baseline and go from there for the next fill.
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by 20literpotstill »

I put 5 liters each of a single malt Scots and corn whiskey ( in separate, well seasoned charred oak casks in March of this year. Because I dropped and broke a one gallon Mason jar while distilling the corn, my initial cask strength was just 63 ABV. The Scots was 74 ABV. After 7 months, I decided to sample them both. To my horror, the corn whiskey had just 2 liters remaining, with a 76 ABV. The Scots still feels full, so I will stick to my original plan of aging for 12 months. So Hume decreased massively, and ABV increased by 12%. I had seasoned both barrels identically, but after 2 months or so, the front plate on the corn whiskey barrel appeared to crack, though nothing has leaked from the crack. My question is: Can I re-soak the barrels while aging, or is this a no-no? I live in the desert and relative humidity is close to 10% much of the year. If this is Ill advised, what method of wrapping barrels has the best results?
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by kiwi Bruce »

20literpotstill wrote:My question is: Can I re-soak the barrels while aging, or is this a no-no? I live in the desert and relative humidity is close to 10% much of the year. If this is Ill advised, what method of wrapping barrels has the best results?
The ends of a barrel are the "Heads" A slip in the head staves would indicate that your cask level is low. Get the spirit out of it ASAP or you risk losing the lot. A keg of spirits "should" be kept as full as possible. One of the tasks of the warehouse managers is to check the casks and their levels and top them up when needed (they use both new or aged spirit, depending on the spirit and the distillery) Recondition your cask.
As to your question about soaking a barrel with the spirit still inside...I'm going to say "Yes" it could be done, maybe for up to a week max and then let the wood breath again. Remember the water will also soak some of the "goodness" out of the wood, so a little is a lot. In a whiskey unfriendly environment like yours, I don't know what to suggest long-term. A wet blanket wrap could attract mold and damage your keg... maybe one of the Oz crew who live in a desert environment can give you some insight and help.
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by The Baker »

Actually most of us leave the great empty desert centre of our country to the wild camels.

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NZChris
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Re: Wrapping Barrels

Post by NZChris »

20literpotstill wrote:I live in the desert and relative humidity is close to 10% much of the year.
It could be that aging in barrels, especially small ones, in that climate is a bad idea. Oak dominoes in 2/3rds full glassware may work better.
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