Panelapalooza 2018

[OtisT]

What do you do with 110 pounds of panela and a lot of oak barrels? You have a Panelapalooza.

I have been wanting to do a direct head to head comparison/contrast of Oregon Oak and American White Oak for some time. I just made 7 gallons of panela and four new badmotivator style barrels, so here I go.....

My first batch of panela rum was made with a 1.5 distillation process. Being my first batch, I did not use dunder or feints. My cuts were somewhat conservative and the white rum tastes nice. 7 liters of rum went into my once used badmo barrel #43, med toast, med char. It had honey bear bourbon in it for 11 months.

The second batch of rum was fermented with 10% dunder and distilled (1.5 run) with feints from the first batch. The yield on this batch was a bit larger, 12 liters. I made four (4) new 3 liter barrels of various wood and styles for this batch.

American White Oak, Med Toast
American White Oak, Med Toast/Med Char
Oregon Oak, Med Toast
Oregon Oak, Med Toast/Med Char

5 barrels of panela rum

The reading I have done find Oregon Oak comparable to French Oak. I've had some short term success with the Oregon Oak sticks and am looking forward to this head to head comparison of Oregon Oak and American White Oak barrels. I'm excited to see how these turn out.

Otis

[Big Stogie]

Sorry, I searched but can’t find the 1.5 process described anywhere, can you give a quick overview
Thanks!

[OtisT]

Sure. I got the term from Nerdybrewer, though I see it has been used for years on the HD site. “1.5” refers to 1.5 pot distillations. It is a spirit run that has both low wines and fresh ferment in the boiler.

In my case I ran two strips resulting in 6 gallons of low wines. I put 6 gallons of low wines and 6 gallons of ferment in the boiler (and some feints, not part of the definition) and did my spirit run.

It is said that a 1.5 run is good for retaining more of the flavor of a ferment, and in my case that was panela. It worked. I can smell and taste the panela in my rum.

Otis

[Big Stogie]

thanks that makes sense, except I now need a bigger boiler

[The Baker]

thanks that makes sense, except I now need a bigger boiler

Or the same boiler, with a drain tap.
And a pre-heater, a la Charentais, with a drain-with-a-tap feeding into the boiler (or even into a ferrule-on-a-tee just above the boiler in the column); or that you can feed into (if there is one) the lidded hole in the top of the boiler....

Should make your operation much faster, and more efficient, which is less costly, without materially altering the boiler itself.
When the run is done, turn off the power, drain the boiler, re-fill it from the pre-heater, re-start the power as soon as the element is well covered (similar with gas)
re-fill the pre-heater and you have product again with very little time lost.
Not continuous but bloody close, without the technical complications.

Geoff

[Big Stogie]

That’s interesting but I think I would just get a 30 gallon stainless barrel to replace my keg and put an element (or two) in that, I could still preheat in my keg boiler then I could have 2 functional rigs

[DetroitDIY]

I like it Baker, though multiple consecutive batches may get me in trouble when I get back into the house... to a spouse who's wondering what's become of me.

I haven't searched this, but maybe you know... is anyone on this site running truly continuous for their hobby work, or is that too commercial and detrimental to quality?

I like your testing. Hadn't heard about Oregon Oak (perhaps because I'm a Midwesterner). I have visions of some day trying my hand at proper coopering, and making smaller 2-4 gallon barrels out of non-standard woods. That may wait for retirement, if I still have a mind for it then.

Love to hear how the Panela's come out. How long do you plan to let them set?

[Oldvine Zin]

Looking forward to coming down for a tasting in about a year-)

OVZ

[OtisT]

Love to hear how the Panela's come out. How long do you plan to let them set?

I expect I will let the new one gallon barrels age a minimum of one year, though I will take a nip now and again to see how they are progressing. Because I am comparing/contrasting the same rum in four barrel types, I may stretch this out longer than one year just to see where these go. These barrels age a bit slower than a 55 gallon barrel would, with a SA/Vol ratio about 70% that of a traditional 55 gal barrel. The cut of this batch of rum was a bit wider than what I normally do.

I’m hoping that the rum in my 2 gallon once used bourbon barrel will be ready in 8 months, so I can bottle it up for my annual rafting trip with friends. This batch was a cut I like drinking white, so I think 8 months will be plenty of time. Worst case, I’ll bottle half and let the remainder sit longer.

Otis

[OtisT]

Looking forward to coming down for a tasting in about a year-)

OVZ

[Yummyrum]

Nice work Otis
Love the work that’s gone into those barrels and the Rum .

[OtisT]

Panelapalooza 2019 - A Major Update at 8 Months

It has been 8 months since barreling my first two batch of panela rum into 5 different barrels of different styles. I have been sampling monthly and feel it is time for some major shuffling and work on my rum collection. Part of the timing is because I have a move coming soon and I want to get a new batch of white rum on used wood before the move.

I understand that more time would develop a more complex product, but I feel there is plenty of oak in there already, they taste pretty good as is, and if I leave this batch on new oak another 6 months it will be more like whiskey than rum. My personal desire for the taste of what I want to make is on the lighter side, so it’s the second use of these barrels I am most excited about. (This is a long game, for sure)

FYI. As a post change updated, two months ago I diluted each barrel down to 51%. I had been reading about how different proofs will pull different characteristics from wood so I wanted to give it some time in the barrel at a lower proof.

Last night I drained my four first use badmo style barrels. American White Oak Medium Toast (AWO MT), AWO Medium Toast/Medium Char (AWO MT/MC), Oregon White Oak Medium Toast (OWO MT), and OWO Medium Toast/Medium Char (OWO MT/MC). I did not drain but I did take a sample for tasting from my once used bourbon barrel (AWO MT/MC).

The four new barrels all were filled with a wider barrel cut panela, while the once used barrel was filled with a narrower white cut of panela rum.

What I pulled is in glass for now, still at barrel strength, until I do some tasting and figure out how I want to finish each. I proofed down enough for a small bottle of each barrel type, and I made one bottle that is a mix of all 4.

8 month rum samples

The bottles shown are aged 8 months and are from left to right:
Blend of four wood styles
OWO MT
OWO MT/MC
AWO MT
AWO MT/MC
Once used bourbon barrel (AWO MT/MC)

In all my past experiments, the OWO is darker than the AWO, toasted and toasted/charred. I do think that for this particular set of charred barrels, I went a little bit over medium on the OWO barrel head.

I really need to visit or be visited by some of my regional distiller friends. Tasting through these would be a lot more fun and more productive with someone to talk with about it. As it is, I did a small tasting of the set last night. I do like each, but at this time my favorites are:

1. Once used Bourbon barrel
2. OWO MT
3. AWO MT

The un-charred samples are lighter and I can smell more sweet and fruity notes in them and the OWO is even lighter and more fruity than the AWO. I do also like the charred samples, but prefer the un-charred.

I’ll be doing more tastings in the future and will report on them here. This is going to be a lot of work comparing and contrasting (labor of love) as I also have 8 other variations to try, 4 on toasted cherry and 4 on toasted apple.

Otis

[OtisT]

Panelapalooza 2019 - Fruitwood Edition

Panela Rum, 4 months in new oak barrels, 4 months on toasted fruitwood.

I have been aging some panela rum on fruitwood in jars. I pulled a sample from each of my four new barrel types after four months on the new oak. I split the sample of each wood type into two jars, then placed a bit of toasted cherry in one and a bit of toasted apple in the other.

Last night I diluted my test jars down to drinking strength, 41%, and will leave the wood in another 2 weeks just so I can say they have been aging on the fruitwood for a full 4 months.

Panela Rum on Oak/Apple

Panela Rum on Oak/Cherry

As with past fruitwood experiments, the cherry smell was noticeable from day 1. The Apple took more than a month before any difference materialized. This difference in apparent strength of the fruitwood is why I used more apple (7 g) in each 400 ml sample than cherry (5 g).

As time passed, the apple samples kept getting better and better. I like the subtle but distinct changes brought by the toasted apple the most. While I do like both fruitwoods, I prefer the apple.

I want to compare and contrast what the fruitwood has done for the spirit vs my rum left on oak. As time allows, I will be comparing the various styles and will report back here.

Otis

[OtisT]

Panela lightly aged on used oak, finished with heads soaked fruitwood

I just tried a panela rum fruitwood finishing experiment and it turned out absolutely wonderful. I think this is my best panela treatment so far.

Panela Rum: I pulled two small jar samples of panela rum that had been soaking in a once used bourbon barrel for 8 months. The rum itself was quite nice straight from the barrel (proofed down) though I am keeping most of this rum in the barrel for at least another 4 months before I taste it again.

Fruitwood: I filled two jars with small chunks of toasted fruitwood. One is toasted Cherry and the other is toasted Apple. I filled each jar of wood with late heads from my last panela rum run to let them soak. The heads soak is intended to tame some of the fruitwood’s more harsh flavors by leaching it out into the heads. In theory, the heads should also be interacting with the wood to create other novel flavors/smells.

Putting heads soaked wood into my spirit is also intended to add a bit of fruity heads smell/taste to the final product.

I placed a very small chunk of the heads soaked Apple into one jar and a small chunk of heads soaked Cherry into the other jar. I pulled the fruitwood after 10 days. The results are absolutely wonderful. I can detect just a hint of each fruitwood as well as just a touch of fruity heads smell, while not loosing any of the great rum on oak smells/tastes that came from the barrel. I’m also not getting any of the light bitterness I normally see with the cherry.

I have been challenged in past experiments trying to get a more subtle fruitwood experience and think this treatment has done the trick. This is the light fruitiness I have been looking to add to some of my spirts.

Moving forward
I plan to expand my tests into using heads soaked fruitwood. I feel this specific spirit can tolerate more wood and heads, so before the month is out I plan to make another set of bottles that use more fruitwood that has been soaked in heads a bit longer. Samples will be ready just in time for the PNW meet up in July. Can’t wait to share with friends.

I am pleasantly surprised by the impact of heads soaked wood in this test, and I now have a new use for feints. I want to try this method with some oak as well so I filled two jars with toasted Oregon Oak and two jars with toasted American White Oak. One of each oak is soaking in rum heads, and one of each wood type is soaking in whiskey heads. I am hoping this will be a good way to add a bit of complexity and a small kick to any wood aged spirit. I’ll also have to try this next time I have some white rum to play with.

Tails. Possibly down the road I will try some aged whiskey with tails soaked oak. I need to read more about tails interaction with oak and need to determine which fraction of tails I would want to try. With heads, I know I wanted some of that smell to carry forward. Not so much with tails. I don’t want to add a tails smell as much as I would be looking for something new created by the interaction of wood and tails over time.

Otis

[OtisT]

Panelapalooza 2019 - Fruitwood Edition

Panela Rum, 4 months in new oak barrels, 4 months on toasted fruitwood.

I have been aging some panela rum on fruitwood in jars. I pulled a sample from each of my four new barrel types after four months on the new oak. I split the sample of each wood type into two jars, then placed a bit of toasted cherry in one and a bit of toasted apple in the other.

Last night I diluted my test jars down to drinking strength, 41%, and will leave the wood in another 2 weeks just so I can say they have been aging on the fruitwood for a full 4 months.

62F227D0-C842-4D12-A3B1-A4FC4C8B62BB.jpeg

EEB922A3-052E-4530-BDAA-B98D33D263A9.jpeg

As with past fruitwood experiments, the cherry smell was noticeable from day 1. The Apple took more than a month before any difference materialized. This difference in apparent strength of the fruitwood is why I used more apple (7 g) in each 400 ml sample than cherry (5 g).

As time passed, the apple samples kept getting better and better. I like the subtle but distinct changes brought by the toasted apple the most. While I do like both fruitwoods, I prefer the apple.

I want to compare and contrast what the fruitwood has done for the spirit vs my rum left on oak. As time allows, I will be comparing the various styles and will report back here.

Otis

And the winner is........ APPLE

I bottled each variation of the 4 oak wood treatments and 2 fruit wood treatments (8 styles) and shared these bottles with more than a dozen drinker, and well over half of those folks were distillers too. This was not a scientific experiment, so I’m simply paraphrasing the results.

The consensus is that Apple treatment was the favorite fruitwood treatment. A few folks did prefer Cherry but Apple by far was the consensus winner as far as fruitwood treatment goes. There were no claims to not liking either treatment.

The most common feedback I received on the difference between these two was that the Apple seemed to blend the flavors and smells together better, and that produced a more rounded and smooth spirit. The Cherry was said to be more pronounced and noticeable.

What about the Various Oak Treatments?

American White Oak vs Oregon Oak: There was no clear consensus on which oak barrel treatments within this set 4 styles was the favorite. I had some folks say they preferred the Oregon Oak, while some preferred the American White Oak. Other than preference between the oaks, there were a few specific comments from other distillers about preferring or at least noticing the nice nose/smell of the Oregon Oak spirits.

As far as Charring goes it was close, but more folks preferred drinking the rum from a charred and toasted barrel versus toasted only. This was a surprise for me and I also fell into the camp preferring charred spirits.

I was concerned with over oaking my rum in the new barrels, and I did not want this to turn out more Whiskeyish than rumish. I brought this subject up with many I shared these spirits with and the feedback was that I hit the mark. ( definitely more rum like than whiskey like.).

Conclusion of this test

I’m calling the whole test a success. I found them all pleasantly drinkable, and I received the same unsolicited comment from some others who tried most or all of them.

I definitely preferred the Apple in these tests as well, and much to my surprise I was leaning toward the charred styles. I personally could not pick a favorite between the two oaks. I liked them both for different reasons.

I have about a liter of rum left from each of the four barrels, spirits aged in them 8 months. Based on these results I decided to finish each of the four oak aged rums with the same toasted/charred Apple treatment and I’m calling this specific test done.

I can’t wait to taste my Flagship rum that went into these second use barrels. When it’s done aging in the barrel I’m sure some of it will get a treatment of Apple and Cherry. Yum!

Otis.

[zapata]

Amazingly well done and documented! Cheers!

[OtisT]

One Year Report - Panela Rum Heaven

I filled the first barrel in this thread one year ago. The rum was a clean Panela rum made without Dunder or feints, and the cut was conservative. The barrel was my first badmo made by Badmotivator himself, #43, 2 gallons, med toast/med char. It had previously held bourbon for one year before this use. The first 9 months the rum was at 62%, and I proofed it down to 51% for the last 3 months.

Damn this stuff is wonderful. Beautiful golden/amber color. The nose is amazing: butter, butterscotch, vanilla, sweet. Tastes great too. I plan to proof and bottle half of this while the other half will be polished with Apple wood. (See previous post). For Apple wood polishing I will split the rum into two jars. I will soak toasted apple in one, and toasted charred apple in the other. I can’t find my box of prepared apple chunks right now, so I’ll take pics and post once I locate it.

Otis

[Badmotivator]

I love that butterscotch flavor! I have found it in some barrels but not others with identical spirits, which is a puzzle.

I'm glad to hear of your success. Hope you're doing well.

[OtisT]

Thanks Badmo, I’m doing OK.

I’ll save a bottle of this rum for you and will try and see you next time I’m through town. Maybe around Thanksgiving.

Otis

[pope]

Definitely want to see your apple wood stash! I have some dundered molasses rum in an ex-bourbon barrel atm, I will eventually proof down as well and after that would love to put some on apple, maybe even make a fresh batch just for the heads.

[OtisT]

Hi Pope. I’m working with the same batch of Apple wood I acquired two years ago and have documented the processing of in my thread “Learning about Fruitwood for aging”. If you follow that link in my signature below you can see the extent of my stash of Applewood, Cherry, and Plum.

There are also some posts about the fruitwood in my “Learning to toast” thread, toward the end. The last post in that toasting thread shows Apple sticks in my oven.

Picking up that small load of wood two years ago has turned out to be a very good thing. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed experimenting with it, and after two years I’ve figured out some ways to use it that I like most. A little goes a long way and even having give much of that wood away to some Distiller friends over the last year, I think the small box I have left should easily last me a few more years.

[pope]

I’m sure a little does go a long way! It only takes a few cubes to make a jars worth of oak tea and I expect fruitwood can only be so different. I’ll do some reading!

[OtisT]

Panelapalooza Holiday Gifts

In July I declared Apple wood polishing the winner of my fruitwood test with my Panela rum, and that I preferred a bit of char over toasted only wood. I had one liter of barrel strength spirits remaining from each of my four barrel types, so I placed a chunk of toasted/charred Apple wood in each of the four jars of oak aged rum. (1/2 gallon jars, so plenty of head space)

Today I proofed these jars down to 41%, filtered them through a coffee filter, and filled pint jars that I will be giving out as holiday gifts. (6 of these contain different spirits)

Giving Panelapalooza for the holidays

I liked the idea of keeping a small bit of wood in the jars for continual aging and more importantly for the cool look factor of a hand crafted spirit. I split the larger chunks of toasted/charred Apple wood that I was using into smaller pieces and placed a small piece of toasted/charred wood in each jar.

Splitting toasted/charred apple

This concludes my test of panela rum in four different styles of new barrels. (The 5th barrel in the initial test continues) It’s all done but for the drinking. That said, I did refill those 4 barrels with more rum that was fermented differently, so don’t go thinking you’ve heard the last from me yet. .

Happy Holidays. Otis

[OtisT]

One Year Report - Panela Rum Heaven

I filled the first barrel in this thread one year ago. The rum was a clean Panela rum made without Dunder or feints, and the cut was conservative. The barrel was my first badmo made by Badmotivator himself, #43, 2 gallons, med toast/med char. It had previously held bourbon for one year before this use. The first 9 months the rum was at 62%, and I proofed it down to 51% for the last 3 months.

Damn this stuff is wonderful. Beautiful golden/amber color. The nose is amazing: butter, butterscotch, vanilla, sweet. Tastes great too. I plan to proof and bottle half of this while the other half will be polished with Apple wood. (See previous post). For Apple wood polishing I will split the rum into two jars. I will soak toasted apple in one, and toasted charred apple in the other. I can’t find my box of prepared apple chunks right now, so I’ll take pics and post once I locate it.

Otis

Apple Wood Finish on my bourbon barrel rum

I took my panela rum that was aged one year in a once use bourbon barrel and finished it on Apple Wood. I did three separate Apple wood finishes: Raw Apple, Toasted Apple, and Toasted/Charred Apple. Only three months on the Apple wood was enough.

Each has a unique and pleasant smell and taste. I’m not sure yet which is my favorite or how I can describe their difference. I’ll be sharing these with some friends and hopefully then I’ll have some tasting notes to share.

I found it interesting that each apple wood treatment resulted in identical colors. The fourth bottle was the original barrel aged rum without any applewood treatment.

Otis

[Twisted Brick]

Nice work, Otis. Your threads/posts are the first ones I reference when researching anything on aging and fruit/wood.

I tried putting my nose up to my monitor to get a whiff of the uncorked original barrel rum but alas, no Smell-O-Vision.

Thanks for sharing.

Twisted

[cayars]

I too always read your wood threads and look forward to it!
I've been using a bit of raw apple and raw cherry to finish a few things and I'm digging it. Based on one of your other threads.

Can't wait to hear the tasting notes on these.

[Oldvine Zin]

Hey Otis,
I finally had a chance to open the surprise package sitting in a puddle of water at my door step, the cardboard box didn't do so well but the bottles where fine. -Thanks!!

Going to talk about the rums, haven't tasted the Nocino yet. The 1 year out of the barrel was way to harsh for me, the raw apple turned it into pleasant floral almost tropical goodness, the toasted apple finish while a bit darker in color has a bit of the same harshness as the original but not as bad. I think that the raw apple is a nice rum

OVZ

[OtisT]

Thanks for the feedback OVZ. I also really like what that raw Apple does for rum. I’m thinking a little raw apple with brandy would be nice too.

Do you think the harshness is coming from the spirit or the barrel? I just had a sip and am guessing it’s the barrel. The barrel had bourbon in it only one year.

Otis

[pope]

When you talk about raw apple, you're just talking about heartwood right?

[OtisT]

When you talk about raw apple, you're just talking about heartwood right?

Yes. I split up just the heartwood. Raw is referring to the fact it has not been toasted or charred. I did season it outdoors a year before splitting it up.