Long term aging in smaller barrels

[Windy City]

I am bringing this up due to the question of how we make a long term aged product using less than the standard 53 gal barrel.
We keep being told that a smaller barrel will oak faster and I can understand that in a small barrel but when does age overcome small barrel size and actually allow aging.
My thought is that ten gal is the minimum.
I have been aging a rum and a wheat bourbon (two different barrels) for three years in new 10 gal Barrel Mill barrels.
In the first 7 months I would say they where getting to the point of over oaked but given time that flavor mellowed and age started kicking in. At this point they are ready for bottling and are kickass.
My thought is even though the surface area to liquid is much higher on a small barrel how do we compare that to spirits that have been aged in the barrel for 18/23 years
I think there is a point where oaking gets overtaken by age.
When I was researching this I came across this cool thesis.
http://bourbonr.com/blog/wp-content/upl ... VOLUME.pdf
Again my thought is how do we make a old aged spirit in less than industry standard barrels.
My opinion is we can do it but ten gal is about the minimum size barrel and time and patience is all that is needed.

[OtisT]

Check out the badmo barrels linked to in my signature. Small volume long term aging. The ones I have made range in size from 1 to 3 gallons. Otis

[Windy City]

Check out the badmo barrels linked to in my signature. Small volume long term aging. The ones I have made range in size from 1 to 3 gallons. Otis

The badmo barrel idea is phenomenal.
This is coming from somebody that loves the build phase as much as the production phase.
But the question is how do we make/age our product to the 18/23 year old in lesser than the traditional 53 gal barrel.
I have quite a few 18/23 year old bottles on my bar. Some are phenomenal and some are turpentine.
I think that is the risk of long term aging, you truly don’t know what you will end up with.
With that said I am still wanting to try, but will have to experiment with quite a few hoping that some will turn out to be what we hope for,that holy grail. http://bourbonr.com/blog/wp-content/upl ... VOLUME.pdf

[NZChris]

I've always doubted that you can do long term aging in small barrels without some additional trickery.

Badmo is one of those solutions.

If I did try using new small barrels to start the aging process, I would put it into 2/3rds full glass or SS containers, (with oak dominoes), once I was happy with the color in the barrel.

I age with the wood in 2/3rds full demijohns, taking the bung out for an occasional sample and some air exchange. If it is astringent from the tannin, all I have to do is wait and it will fix itself in a couple of years.

[zapata]

That's pretty much my take. Remove from barrel when you feel like you're pushing you luck. Move to SS or glass with at least a chunk of wood, and allow air / ventilation. Sometimes I'll move something back to a barrel after a while because age does it's thing and you realize what you thought was over-oaked was only over-oaked while underaged.

I currently think 5 gallons is great. Barrel, then move to a corny keg with a stave. Draw bottles as desired, maybe even bottle half of it and move the rest to a 3 gallon carboy, maybe just motivated by when I need the keg to empty a barrel. Would bigger barrels be better? Probably. But for me, 5 gallon barrels, even after a generous angel's share makes a whole lot of one spirit. There's not really anything I want more of in one batch more than I want to make another barrel anyway because the making is fun too. My wake is already gonna be open bar, how much booze do the grandkids really need to inherit? Of course larger barrels are cheaper on a $/gallon basis, but I think those of us using barrels probably aren't chasing the cheapest booze possible.

One thing I've never seen mentioned is the effect of barrel orientation. I know at least some distilleries stack vertical barrels on palettes while most rack horizontally. As the angel's take their share there must be a difference in the SA/V ratio, as well as the internal surface area exposed to the air space. I haven't yet been curious enough to calculate it or think it through, but like all things with small barrels the difference may be even more apparent at our scale and may be something to exploit?

[Windy City]

I appreciate the input but if you actually read this thesis and what I have experienced. Long term aging is very possible In small barrels. Again I think the minimum size is ten gal and if you read the research it makes sense.We worry about over oaking in small barrels but how is that different than a bourbon that has spent 23 years in a barrel? I am not advocating putting a bourbon in a ten gal barrel for 23 years but I do believe that something happens when you age for over three years. At some point the over oaking gets to a point of mellowing and age starts setting in.
I have had bourbon and rum that seemed over oaked at one and a half years but became quite phenomenal at three years
There is no substitute for age and I personally believe once we put it in glass the true aging/oxidation ends
The vanillans, caramelization and other beneficial aging compounds stop
I don’t see why we can’t long term age in a ten gal barrel just the same as a 53 gallon barrel.
Maybe not as long as 23 years but why not ten or 15

[Windy City]

I have been working on my basement brewery/distillery for the last two and a half years and am almost complete. My goal for this spring is to build a Rick house in my back yard. I want to be able to long term age barrels that are aged by the season’s (Chicagoland is very hot humid summers and very cold dry winters) My standard barrel is ten gal but I would like to experiment up to a thirty gal
Neither of my children are married yet but I think it would be cool to make a barrel once they have children that is aged 21 years once they become legal or just make some really cool aged spirits for myself

[NZChris]

If I was to have a rack of smallish barrels, I'd morph it into a solera system over time rather than trying to keep products in the same barrels until drawn off for bottling/drinking in a couple of decades.

To keep product in a small barrel for decades, you'd probably have to break it in first to get rid of some of the overt woodiness. Another thought, transfer to glass/SS when nearly over-oaked for several fills, then let them have another turn in the barrel every so often. A Badmo sounds like a much easier way to accomplish the same thing.

[6 Row Joe]

I have bought a few small barrels from Sophias Findings and have been quite pleased. But they only have sizes up to 5 gallons. Just in case you may want a small one or two. I had some UJSSM in a small one for almost a year and it was quite tasty.

[NZChris]

A year, ok, but would there be enough left for the party if it was barrelled for a 21st celebration, 6 Row Joe? I doubt it.