Rapid Aging - Opinions on Outcomes?

[tiramisu]

I've read up on many threads and many techniques from vibration to nuclear aging.
It seems like everyone who goes down this path ends up saying that the result is inferior to barrel aging and time.

Solera and small barrels are the two options I have seen when going down this path.

Now to the question.
Are people saying the Rapid Aging is inferior because you cannot duplicate the results of barrel aging?
i.e. Is it different rather than better/worse?

Similarly, are we better off doing white whiskeys well rather than trying to make a colored whiskey in the microwave?
Again, Does rapid aging ruin good white whiskey OR is it just different.

I gave up a long time ago thinking that I could make wine at home that had any resemblance
to the wine I buy at the store. I like home made wine but I have learned to accept that it is table wine not fine wine.

Thoughts?

[zed255]

...
Similarly, are we better off doing white whiskeys well rather than trying to make a colored whiskey in the microwave?
Again, Does rapid aging ruin good white whiskey OR is it just different.

I gave up a long time ago thinking that I could make wine at home that had any resemblance
to the wine I buy at the store. I like home made wine but I have learned to accept that it is table wine not fine wine.

Thoughts?

I think everything we do is different from commercial examples, it is really hard to truly clone a product or even create something really similar.

IMHO, rapid aging ends up less complex than even time and oak in glass. If you have something that is well cut and clean a little rapid aging might make it just that bit more interesting. Real time spent aging just results in changes that you just can't really accelerate.

I think rapid aging is a stepping stone. First we toss back our makings white because, well, it's all we have. Then we aspire to do more and take some surplus makings and try the rapid aging thing, which seems better but not quite right. After the initial exuberance has passed we move to really aging product and likely never look back.

[NZChris]

If you have an empty cellar, it gives you a tool to play with to put something in it. I've only ever fast aged a portion of a run, the rest is aged normally. I haven't done that for a few years now.

It's great for testing how much of a new batch of oak to use.

I have good results from holding feints on oak at 152F for a few days before doing an All Feints run, then doing the same with the heart cut from that. It's usually good enough that I don't go drinking my good product before it's ready.

[Not sure]

I barrel age and use toasted oak sticks I've nuclear aged once and didn't really like the outcome

[jonnys_spirit]

I feel like the pro's commercial-producers deliver fairly consistent product which is arguably more or less unique'ish as far for their product range goes... eg; From one bottle to the next of the same mainstream product. Of course economy of scale and blending from different runs/barrels does provide a pallet from which to choose (pallets of cases lol!)... I'd like to learn this part of the craft better and through a combination of protocol and/or blending be able to approach a commercial rendering... At the same time I'm also very happy with each batch being somewhat unique from any other batch... Interesting to think about and play mental games with as long as I don't have to squeeze 50+gallons-of-barrel-proof worth of spent corn mash!

Cheers!
-jonny

[River Rat]

I really like some of my 3 month old whiskey that has been in and out of the freezer several times. Comparing it to the same whiskey oaked for about 1.5 years I think it is definitely different, but not inferior. Just depends on what you like. I would drink either one on any occasion.

[ROD01]

I read all the nuclear aging thread again this month as I finally had some extra white whiskey to try it on. I had read it before as it was developing in 2013.
This was 10 generations of all grain sour mash that took me over 3 months to produce.
The white is great and I saved 2 bottles to drink as is.
1 jar is toaated/charred oak, 1 is toasted/charred applewood and the last is toasted/charred cherry. The cherry darkened so fast after 1 nuke that I took out 1 stick for the next 2 nukes.
Colour is great and taste is (in my and wife's opinion) very good for a week old product.
The other gallons are in glass with different variations of oak,apple, and cherry sticks aging normally in the garage for the temperature swings.
Last pic shows normal aging jars

[Kindafrench]

… 1 jar is toaated…

You made my day. Thanks!

I know it‘s stupid, but having pictures and ideas about how to „toad a jar“ in my mind since I read this.
Please forgive me

And no, I don‘t rapid age. I read a lot about it on HD but I never tried.

OMG „I don‘t rapid age.“ English is not my native language, you know?

[ROD01]

Glad my typo hit your funny bone
Cheers, Rod01

[Chucker]

I keep finding that aging with sticks (oak) can be very deceiving if you look at color and early taste on their own. American whisky, I find, has a much deeper color than Irish or scotch and I think this is due to new barrels for most American types while the others are often in used barrels.
I don’t worry about color at all. It is what it is and after proofing looks fine. In tasting up to about the 4 month mark there will be quite a few under developed wood notes present; some rather unpleasant and pronounced such as smoke or tannin or a distinct “woody” flavor. At about the 4 month mark it just sort of “wakes” up and really comes together.
I don’t think this can be reliably duplicated in any rapid sense. Using sticks and jugs for 6-12 months IS rapid. Trying to speed this up to days or weeks just isn’t something I see as realistic.

[nerdybrewer]

I've gone through the stages of ignorance, hope, denial, bargaining, more denial and finally acceptance.
Moved on to buying once used Bourbon barrels and aging my spirits like a big boy.
Wish I'd have done it from the start, but had to go through the stages.
Now I have some fine spirits, so fine that I'd rather go and buy my daily drink than use from my own shelf.
Sure I'll open a bottle of my own aged drink if an old friend I haven't seen in years comes by, after all I'm not a monster.
My opinion is that you can't rush something that needs to be done a certain way in order to be it's best.

[LWTCS]

Nicely put Nerdy.

[diktater]

i like to nuke my sugarheads, that way i always have drinking stock and dont touch my all grains. similarly, i age my all grain on toasted/charred oak in glass till i have enough to barrel.

[NZChris]

I don’t think this can be reliably duplicated in any rapid sense.

Have you tried using any of the fast aging techniques that you have read about on this forum? How well did they work?

[Chucker]

No, I haven’t tried any of them so I certainly to want it to seem like I am categorically saying that none will work or give reasonable results. In the case of some due to logistical (freezer space? What’s that?), but mostly because of my perception in taste development from the short term samples I have pulled. I’m not saying that they don’t or can’t work but I do have a mindset that, to me at least, says you can’t really take the time element out of aging. Though we try I think this aspect is among the most difficult to duplicate at a hobby level.

[River Rat]

Just expanding on my comment from earlier in the thread. I think rapid aging has merit and everybody should give it a try. We just shouldn't expect it to give the same result as proper long term aging. Different does not have to mean lower quality or inferior, just different. It's all personal opinion. I haven't tried the nuclear option but have had great luck with the hot/cold cycle freezer method.

[NZChris]

In the case of some due to logistical (freezer space? What’s that?)

A freezer is probably the least useful tool for speeding up the aging of anything, including likker.

[Chucker]

I don’t know, every time I’m stuck outside in the winter freezing my nips off or digging through the snow I keep getting reminded of how old whatever it is I’m doing is quickly becoming.
Maybe that’s a different sort of speed aging.

[shadylane]

It's an interesting thought that cold liquor tastes smoother than warm.
Ya seldom hear folks talking about that while discussing ageing.

[LWTCS]

It's an interesting thought that cold liquor tastes smoother than warm.
Ya seldom hear folks talking about that while discussing ageing.

Though, there have been discussions (years ago) about how the whole vodka in the freezer thing only masks the flavor and / or mouth feel. The jist of the discussion implied that vodka in the freezer is a good way to mask imperfections or a good way for inexperienced drinkers to damper back the perceived harshness of drinking alcohol neat.

Anywho, the discussion resonated with me. When we were kids we only had well water. Keeping a pitcher of water cold in the fridge was the only way to make it drinkable. When cold, aroma and flavor was supressed.

Not sure if I'm drifting or not?

[Bushman]

I have tried most of the methods for rapid aging and as mentioned I don’t think any of them equal the suggested aging process. That does not mean that there is not a place for rapid aging, I like it to get a sense of what the product will taste like over time. I prefer my Ultra Sound to microwave. I refrigerate some of my fruit flavored drinks for taste but not as an aging process. If I am really producing a particular product the Solera method works great. Also the smaller the barrels the more surface area in contact also speeds up aging.

[pablosky]

Hello friends, in my humble opinion
I believe that the transformation that time and patience give to our spirits has no replacement so far.
With the contradictory "rapid aging" we can only make oak tea and if we want this, to age it with a long time not less than 8 to 12 months, I have done it like this and the results change drastically after 6 or 7 months of rest .
I have batches from October 2020 to March 2021 and in June 2021 those of October are turning 8 months, just now the smell of old wood begins to appear, all with evidence of different oaks, different toasted and different seasonings but the same spirit based on tri-distilled corn and cereals tested at 65% abv.
I hope to be able to explain each process well in the coming months according to the results.
I am not saying that the oak infusion is bad or good but that it does not taste or smell like aged speritu.

Greetings

[NZChris]

Hello friends, in my humble opinion
I believe that the transformation that time and patience give to our spirits has no replacement so far.
With the contradictory "rapid aging" we can only make oak tea and if we want this, to age it with a long time not less than 8 to 12 months, I have done it like this and the results change drastically after 6 or 7 months of rest .
I have batches from October 2020 to March 2021 and in June 2021 those of October are turning 8 months, just now the smell of old wood begins to appear, all with evidence of different oaks, different toasted and different seasonings but the same spirit based on tri-distilled corn and cereals tested at 65% abv.
I hope to be able to explain each process well in the coming months according to the results.
I am not saying that the oak infusion is bad or good but that it does not taste or smell like aged speritu.

Greetings

Don't confuse rapid aging with oak infusion, that's just a part of the process. Rapid aging should accelerate the reactions between the various components in the wood, the liquor and O2 that you would expect to occur in a barrel in years, not months. If what you've tried isn't doing that, you should probably write that method off and try another technique.

[Deplorable]

I wasn't impressed with my results from nuking spirits.
Oxidation being a key component of aging, I'd think you need a way to increase the rate at which the spirit oxidized.
Aging in glass with oak sticks, the easiest way to get that is giving the jug a good shake each time you pull the cork to exchange the air inside. Even this is only going to get you so far. There is no substitute for time other than mixer or accepting the spirit for what it is. Young.
Drinking young spirits doesn't have to be a bad thing, but know that you're depriving them of reaching their full potential by consuming them early.

[pablosky]

I wasn't impressed with my results from nuking spirits.
Oxidation being a key component of aging, I'd think you need a way to increase the rate at which the spirit oxidized.
Aging in glass with oak sticks, the easiest way to get that is giving the jug a good shake each time you pull the cork to exchange the air inside. Even this is only going to get you so far. There is no substitute for time other than mixer or accepting the spirit for what it is. Young.
Drinking young spirits doesn't have to be a bad thing, but know that you're depriving them of reaching their full potential by consuming them early.

absolutely agree

[LWTCS]

Oxidation being a key component of aging, I'd think you need a way to increase the rate at which the spirit oxidized.

Can change vessels. When doing so, pour from a distance to aerate the distillate.
It'll help round off the edges. But I do agree that there just isn't any substitute for proper sleepy time.

[Deplorable]

Oxidation being a key component of aging, I'd think you need a way to increase the rate at which the spirit oxidized.

Can change vessels. When doing so, pour from a distance to aerate the distillate.
It'll help round off the edges. But I do agree that there just isn't any substitute for proper sleepy time.

Agreed. Point being to aggressively aerate the spirit to try to fill it with micro bubbles.
This will do more than just opening the jar from time to time.
But agitating the spirits could just make them angry, so it's best to just let them rest undisturbed with just the right amount of air.

[jonnys_spirit]

Agitating the makers certainly makes them angry!! Grrrrr! And under no
Circumstances are you to ever give them new-make-blanco after midnight!!! Never!

Cheers,
Jonny

[NZChris]

Drinking young spirits doesn't have to be a bad thing, but know that you're depriving them of reaching their full potential by consuming them early.

Not necessarily. You can create spirits that are designed to be drunk white, rapid aged, or for long term aging, from the same initial ingredients. The product from a wash and cut designed for early drinking may not benefit nearly as much from traditional aging as product from a wash and cut designed for aging. Also, you can do more than one cut from a single spirit run and I have done that several times.

If you are drinking product that would be better left aging for a few years, that's poor planning. Because of my first large wine making mistake, I reckon you should start by making product for early consumption first, then move on to a product that needs to be aged. I made us our first large batch of wine, (red), that I knew wouldn't ready for at least a couple of years then, a year later, made white wine that was fantastic even before it was bottled

[Deplorable]

I agree with you Chris. If you want to drink now, pull a jar of hearts from the middle before mixing your oaking blend. While it will be good, it's not going to have the depth, and character of the blend you choose to age on oak in my opinion.(when it's done of course)
You're right, it's all about planning, and you should have a plan for that spirit before you blend the jars.
While I like a jar of clean hearts for sipping, I usually limit it to a single pint jar. My objective is aged whiskey. I'll wait for it to be ready. Taking a sip from time to time along the path to maturity is all part of the learning process, so plan for that.