Are we locked into the Barrel Only paradigm?

[Big River]

I know this is off the wall but I can't stop thinking its possible - except I lack the 3d vision and carpentry skills to pursue without some outside input.

I'm thinking its possible to make a 2 gallon (really any size) oak box (no glue, just dowels) with the ability to compression a fitted top (biggest problem I have) to age liquor. You could char the inside like a barrel and the aging should work the same except its an oak box.

Your thoughts?

Thanks

Big River

[Expat]

Optimal would be a sphere for surface volume to spirits, but impossible to build.

A cube would have a lot of undesirable end grain exposed, plus I expect that it would be basically impossible to get sealed.

[Yummyrum]

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 080#p13095

[acfixer69]

I would think cylindrical expansion would be the reason for a barrel design. The square design would be prone to leak.

[cob]

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=60032

[Big River]

wow great information - I really like the SS pot with oak lid.

thanks guys, yall delivered on giving me more insight

[MichiganCornhusker]

Barrels are great!
The swelling of staves is self sealing because of the steel hoops.

Also, the way the staves are cut makes them compress the middle of the barrel even before swelling.

Barrrl ends and croze are tricky parts, but on a hobby level it does seem like a box could be built!

[Saltbush Bill]

Would a box handle the internal pressure fluctuations that a well sealed barrel is subjected to.?

[MichiganCornhusker]

A box would need to be reinforced with steel (and maybe springs?), to act similar to a barrel.

Definitely not the best or most efficient option, but it does seem like there should be a way.

It might not be easy, but then have you ever tried to make a watertight barrel? Not easy at all!

[Deplorable]

Would a box handle the internal pressure fluctuations that a well sealed barrel is subjected to.?

I don't believe that a wooden cube would seal very well unless it was tight tongue and groove construction between the saves. Im not sure that the corners would seal even if with dovetail joints without a natural wax sealer.
I think the croze could seal against the sides if the cube was banded at the joint, and I don't know that there would be any more exposed end grain than there is in a traditional barrel.
But just how much pressure is a sealed barrel subjected to during the rise and fall of the temperatures and barometric pressure in a rick house?

[Saltbush Bill]

But just how much pressure is a sealed barrel subjected to during the rise and fall of the temperatures and barometric pressure

Mine build a hell of a lot of pressure at times and a strong vacuum at other times, Unless your bung is good and air tight you wont get that effect.

[Deplorable]

But just how much pressure is a sealed barrel subjected to during the rise and fall of the temperatures and barometric pressure

Mine build a hell of a lot of pressure at times and a strong vacuum at other times, Unless your bung is good and air tight you wont get that effect.

Yeah Ive been looking for a definitive number on line but it proves elusive. My bungs fit tight and seal well, sometimes proving very difficult to remove to draw a sample. Even the corks in my gallon jugs tend to be drawn in tight when they're removed on a warm day, then the temperature drops 10 to 20 degrees before the next time I open the jug to give it a shake and a sniff.

[jonnys_spirit]

Try marking the volume in glass. I see a definite change in 5/6 gallon carboys with wine at different temperatures. Not sure how much with gallon jugs of likker.

[NZChris]

I only fill my aging jars to 2/3rds full and don't bang the corks in tightly. A jar I sampled yesterday was 49.3%, down from 50.5%, so some exchange has happened in that one.

I'm not sure that the amount of spirit lost during barrel aging is actually a good thing, or if it's just an unavoidable consequence of aging in barrels.

I'm also not convinced that aging in small barrels, or with vessels with a larger surface area to volume, is better than aging in large barrels. Sure, it will extract woodiness in a shorter time, but 'age' isn't a measure of the amount of wood/lignins/tannins/etc. infused into the product, it's a result of the chemical reactions that occur in the aging vessel over time.

A Google search found me a website selling square 'barrels' made of Stainless Steel with oak panels and some kind of black rubber gasket between the oak and the SS. That's not anything that will ever happen in my shed.

[Corsaire]

Even the pros like to play around sometimes.
https://www.taransaud.com/en/tonneau-vi ... hievement/
https://www.vitisphere.com/news-88585-S ... arrels.htm

[bluefish_dist]

There is a company that made/makes cubes for aging. The corners are stainless with wood sides. Allows replacing the wood to reuse it. So yes, it’s possible and does work. Barrels are/were the known way to make liquid holding vessels from wood.