Harsh taste

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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STractor
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Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

So been reading through here for 3+ish years now, I've done several different types of runs from corn to brown sugar to molasses to apples.

I've made my own still, which has evevoled over time, it starts with a stainless steel pot that can hold roughly 7.5gal of wash(14"dia) using a propane camp burner to heat it, a soldered copper cone(6" tall) sealed on using wheat flour paste. Then into a 1in column(6" tall) 90° flat for 14", another 90° down 6" into a 45° which feeds a shotgun condenser 12 pieces of 1/4in copper for 17" long. All runs well and condenses no leaks or issues. Im going to try to set up for a picture tomorrow.

But here's my issue. When taste the distillate after thr run, it always seems " harsh" compared to say something store bought. I normally drink it between 80 and 100 proof, and I get that it won't ever be store bought smoothness, but I feel as though I'm doing something wrong or off. I've always have had this issue through out the many different variations of my still, I don't have anyone around me who has experience distilling so I'm just looking for advice tip tricks or maybe you see a problem I can fix.

Thanks in advace!
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Oldvine Zin »

SO what's your cuts and what's your aging?
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Metalking00
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Metalking00 »

What are you making and how did you make it? What yeast are you using and are you fermenting within their happy zone of temp, gravity and nutrients? Are you making cuts? Sounds like youre either not making cuts or are not making good cuts... How many times are you distilling before you call it done?

Lots of questions need answering...then, someone with more experience than me can come along and answer yours
Sporacle
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Sporacle »

Recipe, OG to determine approx abv or ratio of molasses, distillation method (strip, 1.5 or one and done) take off rate, collection method or vessel size, cut technique and age? As said the more info the more idea people will have about what you may or may not be doing :D
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STractor
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Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

So been reading through here for 3+ish years now, I've done several different types of runs from corn to brown sugar to molasses to apples.

I've made my own still, which has evolved over time, it starts with a stainless steel pot that can hold roughly 7.5gal of wash(14"dia) using a propane camp burner to heat it, a soldered copper cone(6" tall) sealed on using wheat flour paste. Then into a 1in column(6" tall) 90° flat for 14", another 90° down 6" into a 45° which feeds a shotgun condenser 12 pieces of 1/4in copper for 17" long. All runs well and condenses no leaks or issues. Im going to try and get a picture of it today if I get the opportunity.

But here's my issue. When tasting the distillate after the run, it always seems "harsh" compared to say something store bought. I normally drink it between 80 and 100 proof, and I get that it won't ever be store bought smoothness, but I feel as though I'm doing something wrong or off. To me it taste as if it has too much burn to it that its hiding all the other flavors.

I've always have had this issue through out the many different variations of my still and differentrecipes, I don't have anyone around me who has experience with distilling so I'm just looking for advice, tip, tricks, or maybe you see a problem I can fix.

Thanks in advace!

Ps I do use cuts. I typically strip the 7.5gal then dilute to around 20-30% and redistill. Separate out distillate into 200-600ml depending on if I can sense a change in the distillate.
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BlueSasquatch
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Any mash with sugar in it, seems to have higher odds of being harsh, from my experience. Have you tried any all-grain recipes?

Can you tell a difference, in your cuts between the head, heart and tails? It sounds a bit like it's getting smeared, which just means your cuts aren't distinguishable.

How fast do you run your spirit run at? What sort of volume of liquid is coming out of your condenser? It sounds like you like neutrals, look into increasing your column height, packing it, etc.

Are you comparing apples to apples? Of the store-bought stuff, what is the proof? What type of liquor, and has it been barrel aged, or any post-still processes done to it? How long do you wait before drinking, do you have any "aged" stock that has been sitting a while? How much does your spirit breath? I've found store-bought to smooth out considerably, once it's been opened and then left to sit for 3 months. (cork back in the bottle, but just opening it up for a night before re-corking it, adding some more head-space in the bottle for the spirit to discharge some of the harsher vapors, makes a world of difference IMO)
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BrewinBrian44
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Agree with the above questions.

Sugar always burns, especially right off the pipe. Time fixes it considerably, but even with that, it’ll still burn more than store bought all grain neutral spirits.

The only thing I’ve made that came across smooth right off the pipe was an all grain with a lot of oats in it. Oats really make a smooth drink.
STractor
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

Most of my recipes are based around sugars. I typically run at 1/8 -1/4 open of an 15000btu burner (4400watts roughly). It produces a 1milimeter stream. Heat up takes about 1.5 hours from 80F and full pot, then finish is 2-3hrs.

Out of the 7.5 gal pot on a good healthy wash, I can get around 1.5 gallons of distillate that started coming out at 115proof and finished at 40 proof.

Typically ill wait about a week or so, which sounds way to short now, but I do have some aged and unaged UJSSM thats a little over a year now. The burn/harshness isn't as rough but its still pretty dominant. I've aged it by using one of those spiral oak logs until I get a proper color.

After distilling for a spirits run I will leave the jars open over night for 12+hours then come back and taste and smell to see where heads hearts and tails are. I do know I have a hard time telling heads and hearts apart. Say first and middle jar are clearly different but I never seem to find a distinct area, unlike tails it hits and you know it.

I am comparing my liquor to a local brand of moonshine that I bought at a liquor store, even tim smiths or midnight moon brand.

If I've missed a question or you want more info please do ask, it'll lead to me learning more. And one of these days I plan on getting into a full grain mash, something like a bourbon recipe.
STractor
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

Here is my still set up.
20220118_150740.jpg
And here is the end of my condenser,
as you can see I just added this catch to funnel the distillate. Where as I used to just have a cover plate with a spout on it. You know constantly making changes to it hoping to make it better from learning.
20220118_165405.jpg
20220118_165415.jpg
Sporacle
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Sporacle »

So you are doing a one and done, try stripping to get enough low wines to do a spirit run, it will give you a wider range to cut given you will have more product
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STractor
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

I always do a stripping run, my washes are normally around 10% alcohol.
Then I do a spirit run with the low wines around 30%. Depending on how it smells/taste coming out or if i have more to add in later, I will do more then 1 spirit run.
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Sporacle »

STractor wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:38 pm Out of the 7.5 gal pot on a good healthy wash, I can get around 1.5 gallons of distillate that started coming out at 115proof and finished at 40 proof
Sorry I read this and thought that you were referring to this as your spirit run

Edit I'm trying to do the maths on your take off speed but can't figure it out exactly, measure your rate on your next spirit run, from a very broad perspective I think you may be running to fast for a 1 inch riser if you can finish 7.5 gallons of 30abv low wines in 2 to 3 hours
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howie
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by howie »

do you have any copper packing in the 6"/15cm column from the boiler lid?
i would try ramming as much copper mesh into that short section and see if there's a slight difference.
i would also consider either adding another 12" long piece(full of copper mesh) to that column or preferably, changing it to a 300mm of 2"(with copper packing).
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Oatmeal »

You might try running a wash <8%. Higher alcohol ferments may cause more undesirable alcohols.
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BrewinBrian44
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Sounds like he’s running too much power into the boiler. Slowing down will help separate the heads smearing into the hearts.
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IAmPistolPete
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by IAmPistolPete »

"Sounds like he’s running too much power into the boiler. Slowing down will help separate the heads smearing into the hearts."

+1

Spirit run should be much slower. No way a spirit run should be done in 2hrs on 7gal. If you're getting the same takeoff rate as your strip then your especially smearing the heads up front. After 1st drips cut the power til you get a steady trickle.
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NZChris
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by NZChris »

How, exactly, are you choosing your hearts?
STractor
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

So my apologies if some of my info is confusing, going through old notes. My spirit runs are normally smaller then thr full 7.5 gal. So say 3.5gal for a 2 hr run from first drop to last.

But my next run i do plan on slowing the heat up process and run portion. And get some copper packing

I distinguish heads from hearts by thr rubbing alcohol smell, it has a much more volatile smell, it feels more slippery between my fingers. When tasting it also has more of a tingle sensation my my lips and tongue.
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squigglefunk
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by squigglefunk »

sounds like heads to me - you might want to try a bit further down the jar line
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Ben
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by Ben »

Ferment issues, like said above reduce your wash gravity. What yeast are you using, what is your fermentation temperature?

Do three stripping runs, that will give you a full charge for your boiler. This will give you more "space" to make your cuts, you will have more volume.
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STractor
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Re: Harsh taste

Post by STractor »

I'm using most of the time DADY yeast, which is old but still working. Though I did run a molasses and sugar rum wash using regular old bakers yeast from the grocery store and thats probably my favorite tasting so far.

I try to keep my Temps between say 73 and 85ish, I keep my fermenting barrel in my basement which is constantly in the mid 60s.

Maybe I should try making a larger rum wash run again, but I dont want to get all fancy. I want to get a good baseline, something basic so I can see where things are going wrong possibly.

As for cuts im normally looking at say 800ml out of a 2L total so around a 3rd. I know it varies depending on the fermentation.
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