Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:13 pm

Thanks, First batch of rum really hasn't improved much. My 2nd ferment is still going. Went like crazy for 48 hours and is still bubbling slowly another 48 hours later. I gave my column a really thorough cleaning and I'm hoping that's what contaminated my first batch.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:46 am

Give it time, that's the hard part. lol

Very few of my rums have been good in short order other than the nuked stuff at least neat but mixed in coke is fine within a week.

I building a hot box for my new 30 gal fermenter today and insulate it and start a new rum ferment, should be able to hold 90+ temps without a light OD electricity and that's all I need for rum!!!
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:19 pm

My Brother and I actually got into some of the product on oak last night and it has changed a lot even in the one week. The smell is still kind of off but it tastes very
much of molasses now.

I ran my 2nd wash, ran it much slower and once it stabilized didn't mess with it. I ended up with 1.5 liters of tails vs the 500 ml from the previous run. I had been playing around with heat and plate relux during my first run so am wondering if I inadvertently allowed the tails to bleed into the hearts.

Do any of you use clearing agent or just give your wash time to settle. I have noticed that my wash isn't as clear as it could be when I have been charging my set up.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:12 pm

Shine0n wrote:I building a hot box for my new 30 gal fermenter today and insulate it and start a new rum ferment, should be able to hold 90+ temps without a light OD electricity and that's all I need for rum!!!


I built a box that holds 20G/80L of ferment out of scrap lumber and that metallic insulation wrap. It holds the temp really well. I have found my ferment starts out really strong for about 36 hours then just keeps going and going slowly. I still think I may need to adjust my yeast bomb and actual wash content. I would love it to ferment dry in the 36-48 hour window others are achieving.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:18 pm

When I can keep the ferments at 80-86 they take 5 days
At 87-90+ it takes 3 days, I run very soon after its dry when possible, I think it's a good part of the flavor profile.

I see no reason to clear a rum ferment other than if it's not possible to get to it right away but I run on propane not electrical so I don't worry too much.

Also I'm not a yeast bomb person but I might start with this cold ass weather we have going on just to get a better start on things. Molasses has everything it needs nutes wise but the addition of Epsom salt isn't a bad thing.

It was bitterly cold today not going over 22°f with winds blowing 20mph all day so needless to say I didn't do much outside. lol
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby zapata » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:03 am

Hey shine, I was doing some yeast research, and this section made me think of you:
http://whiskyscience.blogspot.com/2011/ ... s.html?m=1
Diacetyl is an important flavour compound producing slick, buttery mouthfeel from concentrations of about 1ppm and at higher concentrations butterscotch or even cheesy flavours, and is usually considered as an off-note. It arises from the nitrogen metabolism during the exponential phase as the cells convert aminonoacids into ketones (such as diacetyl) and back to different aminoacids, but in the late stationary and the cell-death phases the cells use ketones in their metabolism as the sugars are running low. Brewers and distillers usually allow a diacetyl-rest period after the active fermentation to clear the wort of excess ketones. Too short fermentation time usually results in excess diacetyl. Heating, for example during distilling, increases the formation of diacetyl from other ketones. Diacetyl is quite volatile with a boiling point of 88⁰C and very hard to remove from the spirit even with column distillation.

Basically it seems to support your discovery of heating the wash to produce the butteryness. Also, not waiting for the wash to clear prevents yeast from cleaning it up at the stationary phase. It's obviously from a whisky site, so you'll have to forgive him for calling it an off note :)
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:16 am

Thanks, I love that buttery flavor in my white rum, none of that particular batch made it to wood because it was sooo good white... oppps, 1 quart I did a couple nuke cycles on and it was right damn good but still prefer it white.
Interesting thread now in the yeast, fungi, nutrients section yall have going or continued with and lots of good info although most people won't understand alot unless highly educated. lol

With momma bout to pop a baby out, work and freezing temps I haven't had time still to build my heat box or make a ferment, it's killing me because I just need to get some things going to keep up for the year and timing is everything with my process.

Is what it is u suppose, just depressing not being able to do anything outdoors. ugh
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby nerdybrewer » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:40 am

Shine0n wrote:Thanks, I love that buttery flavor in my white rum, none of that particular batch made it to wood because it was sooo good white... oppps, 1 quart I did a couple nuke cycles on and it was right damn good but still prefer it white.
Interesting thread now in the yeast, fungi, nutrients section yall have going or continued with and lots of good info although most people won't understand alot unless highly educated. lol

With momma bout to pop a baby out, work and freezing temps I haven't had time still to build my heat box or make a ferment, it's killing me because I just need to get some things going to keep up for the year and timing is everything with my process.

Is what it is u suppose, just depressing not being able to do anything outdoors. ugh


It's been cold in the East, do what you can and can what you do.
Don't worry about the rest!
Plenty time to ferment and still when it warms back up!
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby raketemensch » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:55 pm

So frigid that our furnace can’t keep up... I have everything (including a new barrel) to start up the feed grade molly + jaggery wash, as well as a new UJ, but the aquarium heater I ordered doesn’t work and it’s probably 45 degrees in the basement...

Can’t wait for this cold to end.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:20 am

I feel ya, my window switch went out with the window all the way down this am, 9°f So there's cardboard taped to the damn thing to go to work

Good thing is the switch should be here by 4 this afternoon and its supposed to warm up this week. Oh yeah

I should be able to get the box built this week and get a ferment going by the weekend.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:22 pm

East Coast of Canada has been super cold too. I primarily heat with a wood stove so when that's going the basement gets nothing. My insulated fermenting box held the temp above 80f for the past 48 hours. Its just now starting to drop but I have a flap I can open up around the output of a really small space heater. I'm going to let that run for the next few days to keep things going. I essentially used the recipe from the start of this thread with yeast bomb and will be running this weekend.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:17 pm

Post back and let us know how it went :thumbup:

I absolutely love this rum, it's good white, oaked expecially for apple pie!!!

The cold let up a bit today and for the rest of the week but next week is down in single digits and highs in the low 20's... Not fun when you work outdoors.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby raketemensch » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:53 am

Bodhidan wrote:East Coast of Canada has been super cold too. I primarily heat with a wood stove so when that's going the basement gets nothing. My insulated fermenting box held the temp above 80f for the past 48 hours. Its just now starting to drop but I have a flap I can open up around the output of a really small space heater. I'm going to let that run for the next few days to keep things going. I essentially used the recipe from the start of this thread with yeast bomb and will be running this weekend.


Nice thing about a good, healthy ferment is it’ll generate its own heat while it’s bubbling.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:16 pm

As long as I can keep it warm for 72 hours I'd be good, but with lows in the single digits it may pose more of a problem but I'm sure I'll be ok once insulated well inside of the 2"foam box filled with old blankets.

Been kinda busy with the birth of our little girl but tomorrow looks promising for a rum ferment.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby raketemensch » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:04 pm

I got the rum bucket fired up again today, with a gallon of Evolved Habitats molly, 22 lbs of raw jaggery and 4 gallons of dunder.

I'm doing it a little differently, in that there's also a corn bed like a UJ. It wasn't some grand decision, I was just too lazy to clean out the barrel, so in everything went for the last round. I took the top 3 inches off the bed this morning, didn't add anymore, and melted the jaggery and boiled the molly for a bit before adding them. It's all got a nice new aquarium heater keeping everything at 75-80, and I didn't have to pitch new yeast, as the old stuff started bubbling away almost instantly. Within an hour it was cruising right along.

Can't wait to taste this one, it smells awesome. I saved a little of the dunder to throw in the boiler, and I also plan to dump in a few bunches of bananas when I run it.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:41 am

Sounds pretty good to me :thumbup:

Once I get this box built hopefully today I'll be in business, I'll just make one box for a 30 gal fermenter because I just don't have much time right now and don't see any free time coming due to work and the new addition but I can strip 25 gal at the time and start a new during the strip and have it ready for the following weekend I should be able to swing that.

Plus it's cold as shit here again so the worm barrel should stay cold the whole run, I can strip all 25 gal in about 4 hours including heatup if I press it.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:14 pm

Ran my latest wash this weekend. It had fermented out in around 48 hours so had a few days to settle. I had been pushing my ABV higher then intended by subbing in fancy molly in place of Feed/black strap. This time I accounted for everything properly and probably hit the 8-10% mark. My total product was down but I can smell the difference in the product. I'm going to make cuts tomorrow and put everything on oak.

My first batch actually ended up not too shabby. Airing it out seemed to make a huge difference taking the weird sour odor and replacing it with a butterscotch smell. I had it on medium char Hungarian oak that happened to be available to me. It defiantly imparted a unique flavor that was a bit spicy. I wouldn't want it judged off a single sip but everyone that's tried it has gotten really into it by the end of their first glass. I removed it from the oak and am letting it age further.

I have some american and french oak staves now so will toss the latest batch onto them. I still have 10 gallons of Blackstrap and 5 of fancy in the basement so will probably start another ferment this weekend.

Regarding your insulated box, 2" foam will be more then adequate. I only used the thin reflective stuff and it kept the heat generated by the carboys in just fine.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 am

I like OVER KILL :thumbup:

I also got some Hungarian oak to try but been scared to use it yet, lol
It looks like it would be a bit dark on the flavors but I'm too chicken shit to try it yet. I'll get there!

Your rum sounds good, enjoy it and send me a bottle!!!! :D
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:07 pm

If you like overkill you should try the Hungarian Oak. It's strong but the flavour really grows on you. I have a tun of 2 liter jars aging with different combos, the Hungarian and high vanilla french is smelling really good.

I read the Nukeing thread but unfortunately my 2L jars wont fit in the microwave. I could split them up but after going through the trouble of preparing, labeling the batch #, combo of cuts, ABV and oak they are on I bailed. I do heat with a wood stove so have everything aging in close enough proximity they they are experiencing a pretty solid heat/cool cycle so hopefully that helps.

I also bought a fishtank air pump and some aeration stones and food grade tubing. It has two outputs so I can do two jars at a time and it seems to be speeding up it takes to change over the aromas.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:11 pm

I do have enough Hungarian oak for 5 gallons of rum and may try it on a quart or 2.

I also have quite a few quarts of different types of likker with oak, cherry, walnut, sugar maple, pecan, apple.

A few clear as well
peach, plum, apple, sweetfeed, rum, HBB, corn

I have a little bit of this and that and the only notes I have are rum and HBB... Shame on me if some turn out fantastic eh!
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:35 pm

Haha, it is amazing how much different toasts and wood create completely different products out of the same batch. My girlfriend has been doing all sorts of infusions with the neutral spirits I had been practicing on. We bottled it all and took it with us to Christmas party's all season. One was rosemary citrus that my sister and sister in law have been bugging me for more ever since.

I ran another batch last weekend and pulled 10 gallons of the dunder off. I will be mixing up a new ferment this weekend and use the dunder for the first time so am pretty excited for that.

What is your experience with rum oils? I have wanted to add them in but they smell like the notes I have wanted to work out of my rum, only concentrated.I haven't used them yet. I have a pile saved but I just haven't pulled the trigger on it.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:07 am

I've not (I don't think) used them or at least in a concentrated state.
I keep alot of tails if oaking and aging, I also once I get past the cloudy stuff start collecting in pints again, I use the the "Sweet water" To proof my final spirit down.

Sweet water is when I get so far down in the tails the hydrometer is reading 10-20% give or take, I use what I have of this inorder to not use so much distilled water. It still has plenty of flavors left :thumbup:

When I'm keeping my rum white I do a little bit better on the cuts and blending just because I'll be drinking alot sooner the aged and oaked.

Dunder is something I use when I strip then spirit run things, I add the dunder to my low wines for the spirit run at 15-25% total volume. I do this because my dunder is infected so I don't want to infect a whole wash just in case crap happens. I don't want to loose that much money.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby zapata » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:33 pm

Shine, pretty sure 20-10% IS rum oils. I think for Aroyo they were from 35% down, from a reflux still of at least 4-5 plates.

Bodhidan wrote:I also bought a fishtank air pump and some aeration stones and food grade tubing.

Those are stainless steel stones, Yeah? Normal aquarium stones will dissolve in ethanol, seen it happen. Also "food grade" tubing is not sufficient for any part attached to the stones that will be in the spirits. Food grade could mean any number of things, 99% of which on the market are not compatible with spirits. Good news, brew suppliers sell stainless aeration stones permanently attached to stainless tubing. Perfectly safe.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:50 pm

Well, I must be using them then :thumbup:

I remember reading a few year ago about rum oils but haven't chased it, I guess I was doing it once I read about using sweet water to dilute the spirit instead of water.

It does make a difference in all my spirits as there are lots of flavor in the low abv stuff.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:52 pm

zapata wrote:Shine, pretty sure 20-10% IS rum oils. I think for Aroyo they were from 35% down, from a reflux still of at least 4-5 plates.

Bodhidan wrote:I also bought a fishtank air pump and some aeration stones and food grade tubing.

Those are stainless steel stones, Yeah? Normal aquarium stones will dissolve in ethanol, seen it happen. Also "food grade" tubing is not sufficient for any part attached to the stones that will be in the spirits. Food grade could mean any number of things, 99% of which on the market are not compatible with spirits. Good news, brew suppliers sell stainless aeration stones permanently attached to stainless tubing. Perfectly safe.


I learned about the stones the hard way. Got the best tasting rum followed by the sharpest taste of plastic. I now have food grade silicone attached to a stainless steel "straw" so no tubing is in contact with distillate. I'm not sure if I even need the actual bubble stone but was eyeing some stainless steel ones and may grab a few.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:23 am

I had pulled up to the hotel Sunday evening and when I opened the back door of the truck... Smash went the last quart of my best rum.

I have 180 lbs of blackstrap and plan to make some more but man that's a bummer, I also have 15 gallons of infected dunder so when I have the chance I plan to do a 50 gal wash stripped and spirit ran with 25% dunder to low wines.

The guy standing 30 ft away said that was the best smelling likker he'd ever smelled. A good thing for a bad situation.

I'll be back on it soon!
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:54 am

Oh man, that's horrible. I have been recycling the hot dunder into new washes right on top of the previous yeast bed and its been going great. I also have about 10G of dunder I saved in only Mollases buckets which are starting to get the first flecks of mold on top so am excited to see how that turns out.

I have a lot aging but nothing that's quite there yet.

After moving to about a 50/50 mix of Molasses to raw sugar I have been running my latest runs with a more molasses heavy recipe.

2-liter or 1/2G fancy
2-liter or 1/2 blackstrap
1 kg or 4lbs raw sugar
25% dunder

I'm excited to give the dunder pit time to see what that does. Already I can smell the difference reusing the dunder makes straight off the still.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:27 pm

Try adding it to a spirit run, you'll be happy you did!

I just don't want to chance a 50 gal ferment not knowing how the outcome will be and with adding to low wines and know (I think!) what I've infected it with I have a better chance but that's just me.

I love my rum and can't wait for the weather to warm back up so I can get rolling with it, I have an insulated box but Va weather is sooo unpredictable. I have a corn and barley going and it was doing good and BAM the ice cold weather came back, down in the low teens at night and low 30's in the day and my ferment took a shock hit. I need to warm up the clear and dump it back in to finish.


Damn cold weather! I'm moving to St. Lucia. lol
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Shine0n » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:46 am

After reading Otis's Rum thread I've decided to hop back on the horse and get a couple ferments going 30 gal each.
I'll keep my original recipe as on the 1st page but I'll change up a couple thing of my process, for on the stripping runs I'll add 10% infected dunder to the charge after fermentationhas completed then 25% For the spirit runs.

I'll also heat the ferment to 130°f for 3 hours to churn up the buttery esters of the bread yeast, cool back down to room temp, let sit 24 hours and strip.

I think I can have a drinkable rum in 6 months being oaked and even less for the white rum, maybe a month.

I plan to nuke a few quarts to help out with aging even tho I'll keep on the oak a minimum of 6 months!
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Postby Bodhidan » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:23 pm

I'm excited to hear how it goes. I have been nuking some small jars and do notice a difference faster.

I have experimented a bit with charcoal filtering and found a method with some really positive results. I do a very quick pass over the carbon. For my first few tries, I used coffee filters in a funnel filled with carbon but the pass-through was slow and I stripped out both color and flavor. I now use a two funnel method, the first has a cheesecloth and the carbon and the 2nd larger funnel has a coffee filter. The rum drains right through the carbon funnel in a nice stream and the coffee filter funnel takes care of any particulate that might escape. Colour stays exactly the same but the product smooths out considerable while maintaining all of the flavors from the molasses and what the oak imparted. I had some people over this where we tried the same jar before and after the quick filter on a batch that has been aging since just after Xmas and everyone was surprised at how big an impact it had.
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