Molasses

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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NZChris
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Re: Molasses

Post by NZChris » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:23 pm

sugar glut wrote:
NZChris wrote:... Bundaberg molasses
I was talking to one of the distillers at the Bundaberg Rum factory. I guess they do know a bit about rum production.
NZChris wrote: ... double distill ... agenig in oak
How much of your rum color comes from the pot still condenser versus the oak?
I've never been able to get "brown" out of a pot still even on the first pass, other than by making the still so hot it pukes. Defeats the purpose of distilling in the first place.
If I wanted to, I know enough about their fermenting and distilling protocols to get close to their new make rum, but I'm not a great fan of their products.

No rum comes off the spirit run from any type of still with color. Mine gets oaked, and if I want it darker, I add caramel.

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thecroweater
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Re: Molasses

Post by thecroweater » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:26 pm

Rum from white sugar is like saying whiskey from white sugar or you make good coffee just using loose tea leaves ( it comes from a bull and it fertilizes gardens).
Now if you said you used cane juice, treacle or golden syrup well they are all basic all molasses at various stages of production and you will get various styles of rum. There are sugars that can produce rum and rum type libations such as muscovado, Jaggery, panella for heavier rums and lighter raw/turbinado, brown sugars demarra. What all that have in common are the same impurities that make up molasses and what refined sugar has is the absence of any of them. Caramel or molasses flavoured vodka is not rum, its flavoured vodka, its the diffence between a cup of coffee and a kids chicory milkshake.
Edit : if you are getting colour your still have puked you don't get any colour from distillation buddy no matter how crappy the still is. Rum is quite often dark because it has had a browning caramel added.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Molasses

Post by Saltbush Bill » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:56 am

sugar glut wrote:While molasses has a lot of advantages for commercial distillers, it is too difficult for the home distiller to produce a clean alcohol, free of the fermented molasses smell/taint.
Sugar Glut that is utter rubbish, many of us here are making very good rum using nothing more than Feed grade molasses. I would suggest that if your rum turned out that badly you really need to rethink your distilling methods along with how you make your cuts and how you oak and age.
sugar glut wrote:Supermarket white sugar in Australia is 29c/lb so thats what I use.

Ive got to agree with crow here,If you think you can make good rum from white sugar you are way off track.
Maybe Birdwatchers should be renamed Birdwatchers Rum Wash. :roll:

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Re: Molasses

Post by sugar glut » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 pm

thecroweater wrote: Edit : if you are getting colour your still have puked you don't get any colour from distillation buddy no matter how crappy the still is. Rum is quite often dark because it has had a browning caramel added.
Read my post again straw-man argument, I said color from the condenser can only happen from puking. I did *not* say puking is good!!!

Navy (brown) rum gets color from oak ageing, caramel, and also from cinnamon if used. Malt whiskys have a transfer of lighter husk phenols via the condenser, thus a sugar whisky wont be a malt whisky. BUt i did say I can make one 95% as good. Staw-man arguments or deliberately misleading replies are the make of spoiled brats.
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Re: Molasses

Post by thecroweater » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 am

OK buddy you asked how much colour comes from the pot still, the answer is none OK, if you get colour that's not from distillation and there is nothing straw about it. Just settle the tone champ I wasn't having a shot at you. Your post seemed to show a lack of fundamental comprehension, and I was pointing out that that is not how distillation works. No point getting sarky and twisted about it, everyone started somewhere.
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Re: Molasses

Post by sugar glut » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:13 pm

"None" is the answer I was expecting. The particular phenols from malts and peat give a terroir to single-malt whiskey. The crushed rats, toads, and dogs found in black strap do not lend a terroir to the finished distillate. (Go take a ride on one of those huge can harvesters.)

Making whiskey from sugar, see last post in "Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast", rather than x-posting.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause & reflect. -- Mark Twain.

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Re: Molasses

Post by Pikey » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:02 pm

thecroweater wrote: .................... Rum is quite often dark because it has had a browning caramel added.
I believe that not only "quite often" but rather "Always" is the right wording here for the real dark stuff !

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Molasses

Post by Saltbush Bill » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:19 pm

Pikey wrote:I believe that not only "quite often" but rather "Always" is the right wording here for the real dark stuff !
You can make very dark rum quite easily using only oak, Just use the right quantities and types of oak.
I think that most of the cheap and nasty dark rums on sale probably do use a lot of caramel for colouring ,our Aussie Bundy for one.
I wouldn't like to jump into saying the same thing about some of the dark rums at the top end of the price range.

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Re: Molasses

Post by Yummyrum » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:16 am

Never seen a dark scotch , even those that have been a barrel for 15 years . I'd recon it was far to say that commercial rums are dark for reasons other than oak .
We can make a dark rum by adding lots of the right char / toast . I seriously doubt the commercial guys do this .

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Re: Molasses

Post by Saltbush Bill » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:23 am

Yummyrum wrote:Never seen a dark scotch , even those that have been a barrel for 15 years .
Scotch is stored in second hand barrels mostly, that could account for it not being dark.

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Re: Molasses

Post by Yummyrum » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:46 am

You make a good point Salty , but for some reason I thought that those second hand barrels usually get a refurbish before use . Perhaps some do some don't depending on distillery .
OK what about Tiquila , Barrel aged and never seen a dark one of them either .
Weird how the concept of dark Rum is around .

But then I'm looking at a pretty colourful bottle of JD and thats from a new barrel :|

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Molasses

Post by Saltbush Bill » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:23 am

Yummyrum wrote: I thought that those second hand barrels usually get a refurbish before use . Perhaps some do some don't depending on distillery .
Not that I'm aware of. Could be wrong , have been before many times before.

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Re: Molasses

Post by Pikey » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:53 am

bcboyz86 wrote:So maybe I'm just looking to hard/only at certain recipes...but I'm noticing a pattern of about 12-15lbs of sugar per 25L of wash...so say 48oz of molasses has about a kilo of sugar....................
You're at the high end of the sugar content here - I use 5 kg (11lb) total sugars in 25 litres and that is pushing it a bit - another 10% sugar will still ferment to dryness with ordinary wine yeast - so more than about 12lb sugar in 25 litres will not ferment to dryness with ordinar wine yeasts ! - Ferment will take significantly longer with my 11 lb than it would with 4 kg (8.8 lb) - Lalvin EC1118 will go higher in abv terms, but is quite slow fermenting. Bakers yeast is pushed to it's limits at 11 lb.

Additional sugar in the wash will not do huge harm unless pushed to extremes, but will just be a waste of time and money.

The rule of thumb I use is 40% sugar content in molasses - if no specific product info is available.

Your hydrometer does not work properly on molasses washes - it will regeister high since there are many unfermentabes present.

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Re: Molasses

Post by thecroweater » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 am

rum is about the most unregulated spirit there is, I would say all dark commercial rum has had browsing caramel added and a heck of a lot have sweetening (smoothing) caramel to speed up the aging. Ive even heard some add molasses to the finished rum. Scotch whisky has some very tight restrictions on additives and the amount of browsing they can add is really small and only given type. I don't think the Irish go near it and their product is light coloured still. I have no clue as to US and Australian regulations but as this is a molasses thread best to discussion that elsewhere.
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