Sugar wash heads and tails

[Tn Pride]

hey guys so ive been making simple sugar washes for awhile and always cut out the heads and tails I always try to play it safe. however recently I heard from a few different sources that a sugar wash doesn't really produce as much feints like a corn mash would I always thought it produced about the same. does anybody have any input on that?

[bellybuster]

You should be making cuts by taste and smell anyway so it really doesn't matter, it is what it is. Hard to do cuts by quantity

[T-Pee]

What sources? YouTube? Yahoo?

tp

[Tn Pride]

What sources? YouTube? Yahoo?

tp

your spot on T Pee it was a couple different yahoo posts

[T-Pee]

What sources? YouTube? Yahoo?

tp

your spot on T Pee it was a couple different yahoo posts

Heh. Accurate on a couple of levels.

tp

[Granny]

When I first joined, I searched this topic extensively. Here is some info from Uncle Jesse himself and others on the subject. Hope it helps you.

http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... p?f=4&t=98" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[CanadianBacon]

hey guys so ive been making simple sugar washes for awhile and always cut out the heads and tails I always try to play it safe. however recently I heard from a few different sources that a sugar wash doesn't really produce as much feints like a corn mash would I always thought it produced about the same. does anybody have any input on that?

I'm am working on my first sugar mash too, and heard the same things you said. I will still be making cuts and i'll use the methanol as a cleaning products, I hear its good for cleaning lots of stuff around the house, or windows in the winter.

How many times you distill your sugar mash? And are you using a pot still?

I used- 7ish kg sugar
2 packs lavlin 1118 yeast ( didn't want to stress my yeast)
and about 3 tbsp yeast nutrient
23- litters water.

Started up in 12 hrs, Danm it smells good so far.

[stevenun]

I did a seven gallon sugar wash a while back. I agree, the heads and tails were much harder to cut than scotch, for example.

I went much wider with the cuts than with my scotch. The sugar was very productive, too. I started at around 16% potential alcohol instead of around 10% with grapes or apples. I've got a really nice quart jar of 150 proof stuff under the counter, and some tails in a jug.

The question I have is when does it become rum? I added a little molasses to the still when I put the low wines back in, for the flavor. I tried fermenting brown sugar before and most of the flavor disappeared.

[CanadianBacon]

turns out my sugar wash tasted like shit, Will not do it again.

[rad14701]

hey guys so ive been making simple sugar washes for awhile and always cut out the heads and tails I always try to play it safe. however recently I heard from a few different sources that a sugar wash doesn't really produce as much feints like a corn mash would I always thought it produced about the same. does anybody have any input on that?

I'm am working on my first sugar mash too, and heard the same things you said. I will still be making cuts and i'll use the methanol as a cleaning products, I hear its good for cleaning lots of stuff around the house, or windows in the winter.

How many times you distill your sugar mash? And are you using a pot still?

I used- 7ish kg sugar
2 packs lavlin 1118 yeast ( didn't want to stress my yeast)
and about 3 tbsp yeast nutrient
23- litters water.

Started up in 12 hrs, Danm it smells good so far.

18% is too high of a potential ABV, even of the yeast is supposedly rated for such a high gravity... You're gonna stress the yeast no matter how much you pitch... Think Quality, not Quantity... Greed has a habit of coming back and biting you in the ass... Stay at or below 14% potential ABV for best results... I can successfully run to 14%, consistently, but I've been doing this for decades and it took a lot of experimenting to become proficient at high gravity... My current wash only has a 10% potential...

[CanadianBacon]

I never even relized till you quoted the post I used 7kg, I should aimed for 7 pounds. Kg and pounds have been screwing up my recipies since the beginning of brewing.

[braemar]

I have been using the same recipe for a number of years now and it has always had consistent results as far as amount of product and also quality which i reckon is pretty high. I mostly drink it as a vodka with a slice of lemon and tonic proportions depend on what sort of day i have had.
For what it is worth this is the recipe and procedure I use:
Total wash is 27 litres which contains,
*6 kg. Australian white sugar dissolved in 12 litres of very hot water.
*140 gm. pure tomato paste (birdwatchers) diluted in warm water before adding to wash
*Add water to make wash up to 27 litres and around 26 to 30 Deg C.
*pinch of Epsom salts + 1 tsp ascorbic acid (birdwatchers) I have left these two out with no change to end result but it would depend on your water quality.
*90 gm. Lowans instant dried bakers yeast from supermarket. I just pitch it on top of wash i don't stir it in.

I always ferment at 26 Deg c.
I always decant when the ferment has finished and settled for 1 week and then leave it to settle for another week before distilling.
I use a homemade reflux still with a 1.2 metre column full of ss scrubbers.
I throw the first 150 ml. of product away.
I keep the next 200 ml to re-distill.
I collect the next 2.8 litres in 4 x 700 ml. jars. (this is always at 95%) column temp is always around 79.7 to 79.9 Deg c.
I keep anything after the 2.8 litres up to 82 Deg c. to re-distill.
I only use collection jars 1 and 2 for my vodka the rest i use to flavour.
I have found Birdwatchers recipe has given me the best and most reliable results and have only changed some quantities.
Regards
Braemar

[braemar]

A correction to my above post " I only use collection jars 2 and 3 for my vodka"

[Odin]

I think heads and tails are just as much there in a sugar wash as in any other wash. Potentially more, due to pH crashing that seems to happen more often to sugar washes. It is a wide spread misconception that "only sugar" gives "just ethanol". The yeast does its job, but makes mistakes at it. The better circumstances we create for our yeast, the closer to optimal they work and the smaller your heads & tails cut may be.

Odin.

[SoMo]

I think the original poster gas it backwards, an all grain mash fermented correctly has considerably less heads than does a sugar wash. Sugar washes have that hot bite that is even more pronounced in the heads and yield a higher quantity of heads. Cuts with sugar must be tighter, where as an AG especially when aged for a long time can certainly have looser cuts and a bit more tails in the heart blend adds tons of flavor. That's my opinion others may and will vary.

[Ayay]

All-Grain washes struggle to get enough sugar to be a problem. Sugar washes can go as high as you dare.
Yeasts are naturally coded for A-G, but not yeasts genetically modified either by forced selection or gene therapy.
Treat your sugar wash like an A-G. Do as the A-G's do with your sugar wash and you'll get fine drinkin output.
Leave the turbos and super hyper crap to those who favor a rats-ass king-hit.

[Odin]

+1

I find time and again, and I think Mr P mentioned it first, that if you aim at 8% in your sugar head, no hot tastes will come over. I get smaller heads cuts now that I add chicken grit to my sugar wash. Similar in size as to AG? May well be the care, but further insight/experience/research is needed.

Regards, Odin.

[Galeoturpis]

The fundamental needs of a  yeast
Sugar, water, nitrogen source (ammonium or Amino acids not protein)
There are roughly 12 vitamins but yeast need exogenous thiamine, pantothenate, biotin, folate, niacin, pyridoxine and riboflavin.
Fats for the cell walls- omega 3 and 6 fatty acids and inositol, yeast hulls, 
Minerals - the big 5, sodium, calcium, potassium, magnesium, phosphorus which need amounts of at least 2 g (of the salt) per 25 litre wash. 
Trace elements-zinc, copper, manganese, boron -all neede in concentrations of about 0.01-0.2 ppm. Zinc is essential to prevent hydrogen sulfide.
Ultra trace elements - selenium, chromium, vanadium and another 50 or so which might have a biological role. 
Ph buffer/titratable acidity etc. should be present at 0.5-1mg/l. In wine making malic acid/ tartaric acid or lactic acid is used. Turbo washes use citric acid buffered by bicarbonate of soda. 
The pitching rate for yeast for a 25 l wash is about 3g if you have enough nutrients to grow another 70 g of yeast. 
CanadianBacon's sugar wash had about 20 g of yeast and 60 g of yeast nutrient. But what is in the yeast nutrient? 

60 g of enovit would contain : 3g dap , nh4so4 93%, thiamine, bentonite, 0.75g tartrate. There is enough nitrogen to make 75g of protein which would make 150 g of yeast but not nearly enough of other vital ingredients. 
You are stressing the yeast by giving it a mineral/vitamin deficiency. 
Making a good ferment is about correctly stressing the yeast with a temperature under20°C, low nitrogen etc. Bird watchers works well because no yeast has to be grown, all grain ferments have minimal vitamin deficiencies  (zinc, b1, b5, b7) and turbo washes put too much of everything in. 

[CanadianBacon]

I forgot to mention i used yeast nutrient in the wash, Still, turned out awful. I would use it for a cleaning run tho. I have had much better luck with uncooked sour mash recipe on the tried and true recipes. I get drinkable product with it right out of the copper.