5 Gallon White Sugar Sufficient Nutrient!

[Amin]

hello guys
another noob distiller question

i brew wine/beer w.o any issue well its nature of fruit and grain to have enough nutrient to ferment all the way in most cases

however plain table sugar dont have those ....

i read bunch of articles here and other sites but in the end didn't have final conclusion how much nutrient and other stuff needed to fully ferment les say regular 5 gallon carboy sugar wash to be fully fermented

at the moment my sugar wash stuck i think for the same reason.

so far i added these as nutrient i appreciate if someone can say final word on this matter

1. 1 vitamin C Effervescent tablet
2. 2 Vitamin B1(Tiamin) Tablet
1. 1 Zinc Plus Effervescent tablet
3. 2 table spoon Citric Acid
4. 1 table spoon Malic Acid
5. 5 table spoon home made yeast nutrient made of these:
"diammonium phosphate, ammonium sulphate, potassium tartrate, bentonite"

anyway it work about 3 days then fully stop working ... no bubbling or changes in hydrometer reading
so i wonder should i add more of these or which one more which less ...

thanks in advance

[der wo]

Hi amin

-how much sugar you took for the 5 gallons?
-vitamin C has no use. And you don't need to use different acids in combination
-whats your hydrometer reading now? And at the beginning?
-Do you have read the threads about birdwatchers, all bran and wineos plain ol sugar wash?

[Danespirit]

+1 Der wo.
Amin, a can of tomatopaste and a B-vitamin pill, is all it takes. (i throw that into 10 L of ferment)
If you have spend yeast from a previous ferment, don't flush it out..!
Those little bastards are cannibalistic and feed on other dead cells, so just pour it into your ferment.
Don't overcomplicated it..

[bitter]

+ to what everyone else has said. I also want to emphasize check the Tried and True section. All Bran, Wineos and Birdwatshers are all great options as der wo mentioned.

B

[Kegg_jam]

Yikes. That's a lot of stuff you put in there. Tomato paste should be sufficient.

What's the PH, OG, and current Temperature?

Sugar washes are notorious for PH crashes.

[Amin]

about vitamin c etc i try to simulate fruit for yeast beasts...

i trow about 8kg cane sugar in 5 gallon @ first shown about 1.090 now is about 1.075 .... for passed 5 days
temperature is about 28c so i dont think temperature issue either all left is they give up way too soon ... oh and as matter of yeast i used only yeast i had access too EC-1118

fortunately/unfortunately where i live there is no turbo or any distiller yeast etc.
i didn't try with tomato paste! thou ...

and since its my first pure sugar wash there is no dead yeasty for them to chew on them lol @ cannibal quote

[still_stirrin]

OMG.... 8kg in a 5 gallon wash has an OG of 1.160. That's a 25%ABV potential. I'm surprised your yeast even survived the initial pitch.

Dilute it down 50%....that is, split it into two 5 gallon fermenters and start another yeast culture to repitch. Also, when you split it and water it down, check the pH and adjust if needed (to about pH 5-5.5).

Finally...go read the recommended Tried & True recipes. And follow those next time.
ss

[der wo]

+1 still_stirrin
Sorry. That you took so much sugar tells us, you have to read much more. It's way too much even for turbo yeast.

about vitamin c etc i try to simulate fruit for yeast beasts...

Vit C inhibits the fermentation. Fruits have it, because they want NOT get fermented.
If you try to ferment for example sea buckthorn, which is extrem high in vit C, the fermentation speed is obvious slower as normal.

[cranky]

This same situation comes up quite often.
I assume you would never try to make a wine or beer that was that high of a gravity, although I made a mistake once and accidentally fermented a plum wine to 21% with 1118, it wasn't good though. Most fruit is naturally 5-10% potential alcohol which is how mother nature wants it to ferment. In the future try to keep things down to below 12%, there is a calculator on the parent site but a good rule of thumb is about 1 to 1.5 pound per gallon (.45-.68kg per gallon). According to my calculations you have 15% alcohol right now and a big problem because the yeast have done all they can. I hope you were planning on this being your sacrificial run because it is unlikely to make anything worth drinking. I personally would probably try to save it by dividing it into 3 equal ferments and watering down to 5 gallons each. Then I would add some tomato paste and some oyster shell or egg shells to balance the PH and re-pitch some more 1118 and hope it resterts and finishes, or throw it out and start over with a birdwatchers or All-Bran.

[Amin]

OMG.... 8kg in a 5 gallon wash has an OG of 1.160. That's a 25%ABV potential.
ss

probably your sugar is more pure than mine my hydrometer show about 14.8% abv potential when i addes in first place that 8kg sugar

[der wo]

Sorry, you or your hydrometer are definitely wrong.

http://homedistiller.org/calcs/sugar_sg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
8kg sugar made up to 5gal result in 24.9%
Or perhaps you mean 8kg + 5gal water (total 6.3gal) result in 19.7%. But thats also way too much sugar.
The results of this calculator are proven many times and there is no more or less pure sugar.

[Amin]

Sorry, you or your hydrometer are definitely wrong.

lol probably my sugar is wrong i use this type of hydrometer http://www.stevenson-reeves.co.uk/hydrometers/HBWB.htm 3 way to check stats still if after this re-pitch i fail i probably use tomato method or spoon feeding see if i can get handle of this sugar wash or not

[der wo]

Perhaps you confused the sugar with the salt?

Seriously: If you really took 8kg to 5gal, your hydrometer is wrong. They are wrong often. Test it with water and with different mixes of sugar and water (use for that the calculator) or you stick on this level forever.
And don't use the %-scale of the hydrometer, it's useless for distillers, because it shows the expected % of wine or beer, where you left over some sugar, what you do not for spirits. My hydrometer says for 14.8% you need SG 1.112 and 290g/l sugar, perhaps yours too. Thats perhaps true for wine or for beer, but if you ferment all the sugar it gets over 17%.

[Amin]

yeah that might be the case will check with another hydrometer sees how it goes so beside my odd issue with sugar abv%

so if i want to use just ferment pure sugar mash no tomato paste,
how much nutrient & vitamin B1/citric acid i need to put on my batch to fully ferment it w.o stucking on middle way

[cranky]

Sometimes the paper inside the hydrometer slips causing it to be off. The better way is to calculate or estimate what it should be before you use the hydrometer. Maybe temps were high or something weird happened, space time bubble effecting specific gravity at the moment you checked or whatever. Double check the hydrometer and be aware of how much you should be pitching next time but next time doesn't solve the problem now, so nevertheless, you have a problem and 2 potential solutions. You can dump it and start over or try to save it by splitting it up, watering it down and re-pitching yeast then wait to see if it worked. That's about all you can do at this point.

[cranky]

yeah that might be the case will check with another hydrometer sees how it goes so beside my odd issue with sugar abv%

so if i want to use just ferment pure sugar mash no tomato paste,
how much nutrient & vitamin B1/citric acid i need to put on my batch to fully ferment it w.o stucking on middle way

Go through the tried and true, to find something you might like. It sounds like you are trying to make something like Wineo's sugar wash
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=47480
Birdwatchers is a good one but I find the tomato flavor comes through in the tails so that is something to watch out for.
If you are running a pot still use Rads All Bran which will give flavor or neutral and is a good easy ferment. Use the recipe on the 2nd or 3rd page and you will be happy but keep the sugar down to less than half of what you used. Probably .5kg per gallon is a good place to be. You can use any breakfast cereal you want, I like cheerios myself and I use 1 box per 5 gallon ferment.

[der wo]

Read Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =14&t=6782
I would add 1 of your Vit-B-pills here.

But in my opinion with tomato paste it's easier. Read Birdwatchers:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =14&t=5018
I would add 1 tsp of your nutrient-mix and one Vit B-pill here.

[Kegg_jam]

Wineo's plane ole sugar wash.

It can tricky to keep from stalling for some. Depends on water profile I guess.

Pitch a bitchin' yeast starter and watch the PH. Other than that just follow the recipe.

[rad14701]

Amin, you are making this whole sugar wash thing WAY too complicated... You've been given great advice yet you continue to want to venture off into the relatively unknown without proper experience with what works... We know what works... We've told folks what works... You've been told what works... Beyond that, you're on your own... Have you even bothered to read about what yeast want/need here in these forums...??? It's not what sugar needs, it's what the yeast colony needs... You've also been told what recipes provide what yeast need without imparting off smells and flavors... HERE is yet another link to a simple sugar wash recipe for neutral spirits... Note: I have done that recipe, and others, with as little as 1 vitamin (various brands) per gallon with success... You can make things as simple or as complicated as you like, but it's up to you to figure out what works for you...

[likker liker]

All really good advice your getting. I would suggest you do what cranky stated divide your wash into 2 other so you have 3 fermenters. Then add water snd repitch yeast.

[Squint]

Amin
you using US gallon or UK gallon ? there's a differamce in volume

[still_stirrin]

Amin
you using US gallon or UK gallon ? there's a differamce in volume

20% more in the Imperial gallon: 1 Imperial gallon = 1.2 US gallon.

But that's not affecting the gravity measurement. It just means that the calculator is de-rated by 20% when mixing a wash using Imperial measurements vs the US gallon (as calculated on the parent site).
ss

[Amin]

thanks for all replies and helps, and yeah as some said im new on distill work and i liked wineo's recipe i dont like tomato think it will do after taste ... i just have simple pot still ... so thats not for me i think for now i diluted back to get that sugar point he mentioned in his recipe,

repitched the yeast and few vitamin B tablet so far seems yeasties are happy i let you know how it end up.

ps: rad thanks for extra link