Coconut Sugar?

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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olelucky46
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Coconut Sugar?

Post by olelucky46 »

Haven't heard of anyone using Coconut Sugar, so I just put up three gallons of Coconut Sugar to ferment and within 2 hours fermentation was hauling freight! Has a delightful smell..anxious for a taste test.
Any thoughts, suggestions?
I've made several Brown sugar/ Raw sugar runs and thanks to Top Shelf turned out great Coconut Rum. Also have had good taste using a little brown sugar to flavor my final rum. Just bought a Turbo 500 w/the Copper dome and anxious to fire it up!
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by LWTCS »

Coconut sugar or coconut palm sugar?

How and where from the plant was it rendered?

Palms are salt tolerant and as such the sugar can be more salty. Salt makes for tough fermentation.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by olelucky46 »

Coconut Sugar. .. from the fruit (nut) it's self. Got 5 # Coconut Sugarwhich was right next to the Coconut Palm Sugar.
Fermentation started very quickly, about 3 hours, and it's been hauling freight very since.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by LWTCS »

Hopefully it finishes up nice for you.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by olelucky46 »

Put up 3 gal test with 5# Coconut Sugar.....looks like brown sugar...steady perking for 4 days with no signs of slowing
It never foamed just started rapid perking under 3 hours. Has a great aroma. Wine had a sweet nutty flavor not coconutty!
We will see.......
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by olelucky46 »

Ran the Coconut Sugar wash....70% first quart.60% 2nd... 40% for the 3rd.sweet nutty taste kinda like Hazelnut.
Kept the 60% about a pint. To get taste response from friend. Added run with two brown sugar runs for double distillation.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by olelucky46 »

Evidently using Coconut Sugar doesn't intrigue you fellows as it does me.But let me tell you that it finishes out fantastic. Yes it's a little expensive, at nearly $10 for 4#...but damn what a flavor. 10 out of 10 friends can't be wrong.
FYI..this is NOT made from the Palm Tree. It is made from the Coconut its self. In fact it seems like they pulverize the whole nut. Because when desolved there is brown grit that settles out which I found out needs to be filtered out before distillation.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by LWTCS »

olelucky46 wrote:Evidently using Coconut Sugar doesn't intrigue you fellows as it does me.But let me tell you that it finishes out fantastic. Yes it's a little expensive, at nearly $10 for 4#...but damn what a flavor. 10 out of 10 friends can't be wrong.
FYI..this is NOT made from the Palm Tree. It is made from the Coconut its self. In fact it seems like they pulverize the whole nut. Because when desolved there is brown grit that settles out which I found out needs to be filtered out before distillation.
Any sugar (cept for the white table variety) interests me and a few others.
T
Your sugar source is not really that common so it may be difficult to get people to respond. But they are definitely reading your posts.
Please continue to document your observations and share as matter of factly as possible.
When we get visitors from the Philippines (or the like), this is exactly the kind of thread they are looking for.

By the way, have I asked you about lambanog?
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by olelucky46 »

I think that was the name that one of the guys mentioned that Tasted it.He did Ingredientsthat he drank some brew like it, when he was in the Philippines. Said that he thought there was a distillery there that they produced it regularly.
I'myielding ready to start a 6 gallon batch. I found the Coconut Sugar at Sam's Club. Not real cheap. .4# for just under $10.
It is Organic Coconut Sugar. Packaged for Tresomega Nutrition. States that the Ingredients is "Organic Coconut Sugar containing tree nuts (coconut). Product of Indonesia. It ferments great, starts quickly I used one packet of 1118. Got a good yield out of 3 gallons of wash. % seemed to drop to 0 after 40% I got 7 pints from 95% to the 40%.out of the 4 pound bag + 1# of Morena pure cane sugar. I hope I can match it with the 6 gallon batch.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by Greig56 »

A question here please regarding COCONUT WATER vice this coco sugar!
Has anyone had any experience using coconut water in their rums? I've been making my rums the last few years pretty much off I think it was Sailor Bob's Rum and fairly quite satisfied in what I'm getting. I have a very decent source of feed molasses but two blocks from my doorstep so I've tweaked my rums [including regerating/reusing the backwash/dunder] the from there! I'm thinking of using straight coconut water either with or without the pulp [thnk more with!] instead of water to thin out the molasses for a batch!
Has anyone played with or have any experience with coconut water for their rums??

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Re: Coconut Sugar?

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Following this topic
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heynonny
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by heynonny »

Coconut sugar has a distinctive, unique flavor. Never tried it for distilling, but use it for chinese cooking.

(one recipe if anyones interested:

Shiitake Mushroom Chili Sauce

This homemade shitake mushroom chili sauce is pungent, meaty, and woody. It’s absolutely mouth-watering.
Tools: Food processor, knife and cutting board, 8-inch skillet, spatula, measuring cups and spoons, a large glass jar for storage

Serves: 2 cups

Ingredients

8 large dry shiitake mushrooms, soaked
3 oz (85 g) fresh red long chili peppers
2 tablespoons + ¾ cup (210 mL) canola oil or vegetable oil
1¼ teaspoons (7 g) salt
1 tablespoon (3 g) Sichuan peppercorns, ground
3 (4 g) star anise
5 cloves garlic
1 small (20 g) fresh ginger root
2 teaspoons (6 g) paprika powder
1 tablespoon (15 g) coconut sugar
1 tablespoon (15 mL) gluten-free soy sauce
¼ cup (40 g) roasted peanuts, coarsely chopped

Instructions

Use a knife to trim off the ends of the shiitake mushrooms. Cut them into cubes and then chop finely in a food processor. Set aside.
Trim off the ends of the fresh chili peppers and then finely chop in a food processor.
Heat a skillet over high heat until hot. Add 2 tablespoons of oil and wait 30 seconds until the oil is hot. Add finely chopped shiitake mushrooms and ½ teaspoon salt. Sauté for 2 minutes. Set aside.
Return the skillet back over high heat. Add 1 tablespoon of oil and wait until the oil is hot. Reduce the heat to medium. Add finely chopped red long chili peppers ground Sichuan peppercorn, star anise, garlic, and the remaining salt. Sauté for 1-2 minutes until fragrant.
Add the prepared mushroom, paprika powder, coconut sugar, and soy sauce into the skillet over medium heat. Stir to combine well. Sauté for another 2 minutes. Remove the skillet from heat. Stir in chopped peanuts.
Let the chili sauce cool completely at room temperature. Transfer it into a glass jar with lid. Store in refrigerator or freezer.

Shiitake Mushroom Chili Sauce)

I use 3-4 serranos & extra sichuan peppercorns <-sichuans real mouth numbing!

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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by Stargazer14 »

This thread has my interest also, I do mostly rum, and while not a fan of raw coconut not the main line coconut rums, do like products its produces.

olelucky46, keep us updated.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by StillerBoy »

This thread has my interest also as I'm a rum person.. thank you for posting, and keep the experiment coming..

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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by Jimy Dee »

Interesting read. Did you run it a second time and what was the spirit run like?
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by DarkUtopia »

Hey there, I just checked a.... n but only find coco blossom sugar, in Europe that is. Is it smth different? Or how is is called exactly?

Ty
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

I just started a wash of this -
5 gallons water, 1/2 gallon coconut water (for nutrients, mainly potassium and a little salt), and 9lbs of coconut sugar (Madhava Organic Coconut Sugar) and using 1118

In another thread olelucky46 said they'd found a brand made from coconuts, literally the nut, and not sap of the palm, but this brand is "Tresomega Nutrition Organic Coconut Sugar" and on the bag it says:
"Alternative to Cane Sugar: Tresomega Nutrition 100% certified organic coconut sugar is made from organic coconuts and is an excellent alternative to traditional cane sugar and artificial sweeteners. It is made by boiling and dehydrating the sap of the coconut palm."
You can find the description also laid out here on the Amazon product page - https://www.amazon.com/Tresomega-Nutrit ... dpSrc=srch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

But that's neither here nor there, all these coconut sugars are made from sap of the coconut palm, however they're not "palm sugar," or if you want to 'classify' them as such, they don't have the same issue, that being high sodium. There's no sodium in mine, there's no sodium in that one they used, and if you check your labels you can buy one without sodium in it -- that's the problem with 'palm sugar' in that it's typically a more 'raw' product and cooked down from palm sap and that's it, no further processing. Most of the 'palm sugar' we can get hold of is from a couple species of palms, is sap, it's these two (from Wiki):
The nipa palm (Nypa fruticans) is native to the coastlines and tropical regions of the Indian and Pacific Oceans. It is the only palm tree that grows in a watery mangrove biome. Only its leaves and flowers grow above water. Palm sugar is made from the sugar-rich sap.

The sugar palm (Arenga pinnata) is native to the coastal and tropical regions of Asia, mainly China and Indonesia. The sap used to produce palm sugar is known in India as gur and in Indonesia as gula aren.
So if this was 'raw' product as the normal palm sugar we find it would be 'coconut palm sugar' but it's processed and it's labelled usually as 'organic coconut sugar', and you'll see it's free of sodium, so feel free to buy and use as a fermenting ingredient!

That said I'm looking forward to see what this experiment yields; if it is the nutty distillate olelucky described I'll be quite excited, and I'll have some future plans for it as a substitute for brown sugar in rum ferments... Will be updating!
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Distilling today. The wash retained a wonderful nutty flavor, it must be the non-fermentables. It was also a very light beer/wine, not sour like a molasses. I filled my thump with 32 oz of wash (std for my setup) and also added a 1/2 c of coconut sugar for the added nuttiness and maybe some residual hint of smelled sweetness will carry over into the distillate. But this is all coconut tip to tail. Will see how it turns out in about 5-6 hours. I'll air it of course, at least 36-48 hours, but I will be tasting from the worm to see, I'm so very curious. Wondering if I might be making a coconut rum in the future, with molasses and replacing the brown sugar or turbinado or panela with coconut sugar, to hopefully get a nice rum with a nutty note. Time will tell! Will update...
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Distillate is coming off BEAUTIFUL. The hearts are smooth even at 165 proof, and there's a tropical flowery note to them, followed by a nuttiness that remains and blossoms in your mouth after you swallow. It's also completely unlike any other nut, indescribable as say 'almond' or 'hazelnut', it's just 'nutty' but it works with that flowery note or ester in a really rounded out way. It's just a wonderful distillate and I can't wait until this has aired out, I can make cuts, then I'll give it a few ultrasonic treatments and drop some sugar maple dominoes toasted in there. I don't want to put any oak in; if I had some Japanese maple that'd be my choice. I may use the ones I have but they are SO used that they've begun losing color; may just put all of them in there and see what happens along with a couple sugar maple dominoes. I can't recommend enough that anyone curious or interested give this a go using my recipe, scale it up for your needs - but just use coconut sugar and water.

You'll notice I did use a half gallon of coconut water for nutrients and potassium, and Fermaid K, but just 4 grams at mash-in, because of the coco water. No idea if that contributed but I'd guess perhaps that helped with the flowery note as it all developed and fermented off with the 1118. But I'd really suggest happily y'all give this one a try! I'm already planning on doing a rum with the coconut sugar in place of the brown sugar or turbinado or zulka/organic cane sugar people usually (me too!) add. A nutty/flowery rum, it's gonna be with blackstrap so I can use more coconut sugar, I can already imagine the flavors of that developing and MMMMMM--
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

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Okay - cuts results and making the drink! The cuts showed something I hadn't expected. I don't have a parrot so I have gotten into a pattern where I just take my jars off and then when I do cuts is when I see my ABV and determine cuts and such from there. So I use pint jars, collect 8oz at a time, using my 5 gallon still and typically washes that I base to be 7-10 final ABV. This was 5 gallons water, .5 gallon of coconut water (nutrients and potassium), and 9lbs coconut sugar, to remind anybody so you don't need scroll up. I estimated it would be about 7.5-8% final ABV.

Usually by the 9th jar I'm around 55-60% still 110-120 proof yet and almost/just getting into or around tails by jar 10 or definitely 11. Jar 9 for this distillate was 44%, or 88 proof. So obviously this wash had some non-fermentables in the coconut sugar, which I'd guess to be the nutty flavor and flowery note that remained in the not sweet at all finished wash, and is very evident in the distillation after going through my cook. My setup is a 5 gallon pot still, 1 gallon thump which I charged with 32oz of wash and a 1/2c of coconut sugar (extra flavor), everything is copper and I have 3/8" copper tubing connections.

I still managed to collect 15 jars of 8oz each, but by the final jar I was getting 22% or 44 proof which is quite low for having a thump attached, I usually don't get so low out before I'm just getting straight water steam. I ended up deciding on 48oz of 110 proof spirits, which I've placed on 1 large heavy toast sugar maple domino, and 2 small medium toast sugar maple dominoes. The sugar maple doesn't contribute much in the way of 'wood' flavor and it's very mild, but it does color and add a very nice subtle sweetness. I also made more 'cuts' from the heads and the tails and made a 10oz jar that is 80 proof which once the 110 48oz is done aging, I will add the 10 oz to. The 10 oz jar has an ounce of very flavorful heads, then the best flavored tails jars samples from each for a great balance and the jar is almost drinkable itself as it is 80 proof. It's airing for a week before I'll seal it.

So I have the 48oz of 110 aging on sugar maple, once it's done I add the 10oz 80 proof, then I'll proof down. At that point I'm going to make a simple syrup from coconut sugar and clarify it by repeated filtering through cheesecloth, heavy filtering to ensure clarity. Then I will very lightly sweeten the spirit, based on this information here: viewtopic.php?f=101&t=71583

^^Near the bottom is a longer post about sweetening rum and shows specific grams added to an amount of rum and their effects, I'll use this method and do the first or second level of sweetening so that I maintain the beautiful nutty and flowery notes of the coconut sugar distillate. I do highly recommend others try this, and it has a LOT of potential due to it's flavor carryover, from those non-fermentables. I wonder if the use of glucoamylase might have grabbed more sugars, but also could it have destroyed the wonderful flavors I got from what remained?

Final findings are that in the future when I run this again for a better result/full and normal production of hearts so I get my expected 60-80oz of 120 proof after cuts I will use 12-14lbs of coconut sugar with 5.5 gallons of water. I think the coconut water assisted in helping the yeast get a fast start because of the potassium and nutrients therein, the ferment had started and yeast were visible and active entirely within the wash after only 4 hours in spite of a room temperature 68 degree ferment temperature.

I'd like to hear if anyone else has started a ferment with coconut sugar; I've done a real test now with nothing else introduced to throw off results and can assure it DOES produce a nutty, delicious distillate. It is certainly worth investigation and further experimentation!!
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

After 2 weeks in 90 degree temps in my garage on hard maple and Japanese maple dominoes I have done a nuke aging for each domino. The result was a glorious amber-gold-sunset combination color, and the woods contributed good mellow flavor. I had reserved an 8oz jar that I aired for an additional week that was at 80 proof, mixed from a touch of the most flavorful heads, smoothest tails with legs, and hearts. I added this after removing the dominoes following the nuke aging. I've proofed down, save for 5oz of water to bring this to 81 proof, and my final result was 60oz which I'm giving three treatments in my ultrasonic cleaner for 8 mins at 38F.

I've prepared a simple syrup from equal parts maple water and coconut sugar -- 6oz of each -- then nuked this, until bubbling. Then I filtered it thrice through lots of wadded cheesecloth until it ran dark and perfectly clear. It is a great simple syrup and has all the sweetness and nuttiness of coconut sugar.

Once the US aging is complete I will backsweeten with the simple syrup just until there is still a bit of bite remaining from the alcohol, absolutely no more than 4.5oz, however I do not foresee using anywhere near that much. Once done whatever I don't use of the 4.5 oz of syrup I have, after filtering so much through all that cheesecloth, I'll make the difference in water so that I'm right at 81 proof. Then I'll filter the spirit and let it age in the bottle - will be bringing this to the September gathering so anyone who is there can try pure coconut sugar distillate - start to finish, it's all coconut (but the woods of course, which I chose for color, subtle sweetness, and mild mild flavor).

There is nothing else I've ever had like this distillate.

Final recommended recipe would be as follows. The coconut sugar I suspect/treat as if it is 3/g sugar per serving, vs 4 like a normal sugar, or 335g sugar per pound, maybe less. LOTS of unfermentables in this. So for a 5.5 gallon batch, as follows:

14 lbs coconut sugar
5 gallons water
.5 gallon coconut water (potassium and nutrients)
5g Fermaid K
K1v-1122 yeast at room temp, 68-70F for two weeks
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

I've run this a couple more times, but with 12lbs, it's perfect amount for 5.5 gal water (maybe 5-4.5 gal, displacement from the sugar). Recommendation is inverting the sugar in a gallon of water, little less, then when it's cooled a bit strain that syrup through doubled cheescloth, as there is particulate in coconut sugar. It won't affect your wash to mash in without straining/filtering, but I like to now.

Hasn't anybody done this since I pushed into the undiscovered country and tried it? This makes a hell of a distillate. It's wonderful aged on some birch, sugar maple, and once or twice used oak.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by Expat »

Hadn't seen this thread before, but it's definitely interesting. I've seen coconut sugar at Costco and wondered what it might come out like.

As it happens I have a similar drink in my liquor cabinet already. Arrack from Sri Lanka, it's "interesting" to say the least. My recollection is that it's matured oak and mahogany perhaps that's the taste I get. The above description sound nicer than what's in the bottle. Lol

Ref:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrack
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Neat, yeah process and ingredients wise, this hews close to the Sri Lankan and Indonesian coconut arrack. I'd say after aging it is kind of like a cross between rum and whisky, but it doesn't really have flavors of both. More like the flavors I get, I have an all copper pot still, are 'in the family' of both. The nutty sweetness is kind of rummy, the floral notes with flavor and tannins from wood its aged on is kind of 'whisky', but it really is unique to itself. I have been calling it 'coconut flower rum' or 'coconut sugar rum' when I sample it to people. The nuttiness and floral aspect is just completely unique, and I can't recommend enough giving it a go if you want to try something really, really unique and kind of refreshing.

It mixes well with plain old vanilla cream soda - I like a good brand with all natural flavoring only, like Boylan.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by Tomb »

I was offered as much coconut palm sugar syrup as I could take. (It appears it comes in totes with over 1000 litre that gets a bit “twangy” and they can not use it)

Got about 50 litres and man the stuff is heavy!
Was worried as I hear the salt content might make it hard to ferment so treated it like sugar with all the additives.
It went so fast I had to take off all the insulation from the fermenter to keep it from overheating (did a 150 litre ferment)
It was essentially finished in 36 hours!

The next batch I did a more basic ferment with half the yeast and it took four days.
The smell was nicer than most beers, an I wondered how it would taste with some hops?

In the end I made a 93% neutral, but was wondering if some blending to keep some of the taste might be in order.

I have about 240 litre syrup on the way so may try to go for more taste on the next batches.

T
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Tomb wrote:In the end I made a 93% neutral, but was wondering if some blending to keep some of the taste might be in order.
I wouldn't be wasting that stuff on neutral, run it through a pot or plated column and see how it turns out after oaking.
Tomb wrote:Was worried as I hear the salt content might make it hard to ferment so treated it like sugar with all the additives.
When someone comes up with some information from a reputable source that verifies that its so high in salt that yeast wont work in it I'll believe it. Before that time :thumbdown:
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Coconut sugar has sodium in it, the actual coconut palm flower nectar that is predominantly known as coconut sugar -- brown dusty looking crystals -- and I had no trouble with my ferment, other than not using but 8lbs at first in 5.25 gal wash and not having enough ABV. Now I shoot 12lbs in 5.25 gal and it works grand; I invert all the sugar first, and filter it thru cheesecloth when it's still warm and most fluid (it's a syrup going by my invert sugar thread recipe 4lbs at time).

Bill is right though, it makes a wonderfully flavorful distillate; you should pull it down to tails, use some late heads and a shot of the early heads, there's nutty and flowery flavor in there. Age it on used oak and some sugar maple. I know for a fact this makes a superb sipper, and several members got to try my coconut 'rum' at our last gathering, to praise!
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Just dropped 13lbs coconut sugar down with 493 EDV rum yeast for a fresh batch of coconut sugar rum. My last was wonderful, but also I had to use a lot of heads and tails because the 9lbs wasn't enough. I know now that, like panela, it's not equivalent to straight sugar. I'm guessing it's about 75% with the particulate that's in it. But at the last gathering in PA everyone loved it so this batch should be far better. Can't wait, fermenting at 72F.
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by hpby98 »

Wow. Looks interesting. Posting so I can find this again
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Re: Coconut Sugar?

Post by thecroweater »

I highly highly highly doubt there is enough salt to be any issue, most yeasts can handle a reasonable amount. I did a palm sugar ( not coconut) wash that took off ok but struggled to finish, I'm not real sure why but that was block sugar with god knows what added to it. I ran that through plates fairly fast and what I got was somewhat similar to the toddy arak I had in Tamil Nardu many years ago (similar but missing something).
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