Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

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SaltyStaves
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by SaltyStaves »

My next rum will have banana bread added to the wash.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by jb-texshine »

Kind of off topic but I make a rum from twenty pounds white sugar and 4 pounds molasses with an entire box of Graham crackers for nutrients for Apple pie base.
Banana bread rum does sound good though
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

Hell yeah it does!!!

I may try the white sugar again soon but I have 60 lbs of dB sugar right now to use up, I don't think I compensated when using the white sugar before and didn't care for it.

I have an account with webstaurant and brown sugar is cheap as long as I order enough to make the shipping worth it. Nice, one flat rate and no questions as of yet. lol

With the holidays right here I may burn 2 days of Vaca to make a few ferments. Obviously rum and a new bourbon AG mash :thumbup:
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by raketemensch »

Webstaurant looks awesome, but it’s $30 to ship a $28 barrel of molasses. I so wish I could find something locally, but until then it’s feed molasses for me.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Bushman »

raketemensch wrote:Webstaurant looks awesome, but it’s $30 to ship a $28 barrel of molasses. I so wish I could find something locally, but until then it’s feed molasses for me.
I use blackstrap along with Panela sugar and am very happy with the results.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by JoeyZR1 »

I use blackstrap along with Panela sugar and am very happy with the results.[/quote]Bushman, what is your recipe for the Panela and blackstrap?
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

raketemensch wrote:Webstaurant looks awesome, but it’s $30 to ship a $28 barrel of molasses. I so wish I could find something locally, but until then it’s feed molasses for me.
If you buy 4 or so buckets it's still 30 to ship, I've used them twice now and think it's a good deal expecially if you buy bulk.

I need to look and see if they have honey cheap too which I think they do.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

I lied, It was 43$ for shipping but I did get 4-5gal pails of blackstrap for the next batch of rum ( couple batches )

I'm going to ferment in a 55 gal drum and strip everything down to 5-10% with the thumper and see how much I have at the end, I want enough low wines to fill both 15.5 boiler and thumper at 30% for the spirit run so if that means a few more ferments then that's what it will be.

Going tomorrow to get the foam insulation and wood for the fermenter box but the wife put her foot down with how many and how much space I'll be taking up. Yeah-ok

Got some other goodies for some ag too!
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

My buckets have arrived :thumbup: 120 lbs of blackstrap so that should keep me busy for a little while... Maybe... yeah I'm sure of it. lol Maybe a short while anyway.

I'll be making the original recipe of course just scaled up for 45 gal but first I must make some bourbon.

I'm going to age on oak (1gal) for a year but the rest I'll keep white just because I prefer it like that.

I'll also after fermentation heat it up to 130f for a couple hours to get that nice buttery flavor I soo desire. lol
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by raketemensch »

So.... Are cuts particularly hard to make with this recipe?

I feel like I had heads all throughout it. I ran a full keg, and I'm only stashing about half of what I usually keep from my UJ/AG runs.

I probably put more into the feints jar than into a bottle with oak. Am I just being too picky? Is it usually harsher when fresh than, say, a UJ?
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

Not really, but it depends on what you're looking for.

When I keep it white I make a little bit tighter cuts but for aging on oak I kinda go nuts with it because it will be there for a minimum of 6 months. Until last month I could taste the tails but now it's better. It's off the wood now and resting in glass but it keeps getting better every week.

I'm going to buy some more pint jars and start collecting in them just to make a bit better cuts and let them sit a week before blending.

The one good thing about rum is the hearts are packed with flavor so I can keep just heart cuts if I choose, I like the sweet water at the bottom end of the tails to temper with because they also pack a good flavor.

On average I keep about 2 gallons for drinking at 150p out of 17-18 gallons of wash, sometimes more and sometimes less.

I do run a thumper and if I'm not adding dunder to the low wines I just run a one and done. BUT if I strip run enough to get 10 gallons low wines I'll add 2.5 gal dunder to it for the spirit run, Then I'll get about 5 gallon keeper from that run From 12.5 gal maybe 6 if I want to age on oak.

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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by raketemensch »

Well, I ran this through the flute, so the gallon i kept was a single run, but it was above 80%.

The only dunder that I have here is from UJ, so I'm finally going to start up some actual rum dunder now, looking forward to the funk. The next wash should start next week, with some Evolved Habitats molly and a pile of jaggery that I picked up in a local indian market. I need to get another barrel this weekend so I can keep one rum bucket and one UJ going all the time.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

For some ideas on how to fast track some dunder see the Bryan Davis article Hot & Dirty.
http://distilling.uberflip.com/i/622468 ... inter-16/5
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

NZChris, I guess I'll have to buy the book because I couldn't open it anyway I tried and I'm very curious about his methods.
Do or have you ever tried his methods?

Without seeing his article I'll take a stabbing guess on the hot and dirty.

All summer actually almost all year I played with different infections and dunder for rum and this is how I ferment.

I mix the moll and sugar with near boiling water to about 1/3 total volume of ferment, add water to fill the barrel 32Gal with the jet nozzle from the water hose to aerate really good. This most times get me to 90ish f, I then take 1 pint of wash and 1 pint water to rehydrate the yeast (1/2 cup) until it triples in size, about 30 minutes, while that's going on I get my aquarium heater ready to drop in the fermenter.

My heater is for a 55 gal fish tank and my ferments are in a 32 gal brute, needless to say I can put it on 70 and the ferment temp is 90+f, at the end of fermentation I crank that baby up to 85f and the wash will go to about 110-115 f which brings out the most amazing butter esters I've ever had in a rum. The ferments are dry in 3 days but sometimes they sit for 5 until I can run on the weekend. Damn work lol

I'm starting a new ferment sometime before the new year, 1 in the 32 gal and another in a 20 gal. My 55's are completely funky with mouse piss and other dirty shit from the dirt floor in the barn so I don't want to use them until they're cleaned very well and since I have some new brutes I may as well use them.
This should get me 4 stripping runs then go with a very slow spirit run of 30% low wines.

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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

That's annoying, I just clicked on the link and it worked for me. I have borrowed ideas from him before, but haven't done anything with this one yet. I've recently obtained 12 gallons of really nice molasses, but haven't written up a protocol for what to do with it yet but, as usual, it will be different from any rum I've made previously. I'll start with a small ferment to make fresh dunder for the next generation and for inoculating.
There is some dunder that is a couple of years old that I'll have a look at, maybe try a mini still experiment of essence with it if it's not too disgusting. I have sulfuric acid that might fix it.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by zapata »

Cool ref chris! That article was a good read, for the zymomonas mobilis / tequila reference if nothing else. Fully off topic here I guess, but I wonder if its a missing link in agave syrup attempts?

Shine, couple on topic things I learned. He says, practically screams, stop acidifying washes pre-fermentation as yeast produce more carboxylic acids without "artificially" acidifying wash. He says its the one thing to take from the article if nothing else. Very interesting.
Actually, lemme just try to post the article...
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by zapata »

Here it is, minus a couple pull quotes and layout, but legible.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

Zapata, thanks for that :thumbup:
Chris, thanks for the link.

I think I covered some or alot of that in my dunder pit infections thread, although he is using the infection in his ferment while I do it in the low wines for the spirit run I've had some really good success with.

I've used cheese culture, potatoes and soil, malted barely which I think I got the same from the cheeses and barley (lacto) while the soil and potatoes had the classic pineapple once added to the low wines.

He mentions putting his in a chamber at 100f for a week and that's a route I'll try once I isolate a chamber of my own. I still have the dunder pits in 5 gal buckets with each infection of its own that's gone dormant for now but can easily be waken up with some heat and fresh ingredients.

Great read and got me thinking alot again about my protocols and its time for some rum to get going.

Thanks all you guys and now I wish der wo would chime in to toss up some more info as I so respect him for his insite.

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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

It's not just yeast that produces carboxylic acids at higher pHs, 5-5.8 favors bacteria as well as yeast. I've never tried to maintain the pH that high for a whole ferment, but I'll give it a try, at least for the first ferment of this series.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

Neither have I on a ferment but the dunder pits were held at 5 or above but not above 6 ever. Smelled like hell in a bucket :sick:

I may give the dunder in the ferment a go after I get them warmed up and going again, seems pretty interesting indeed.

I'm going through my notes tomorrow to see what does what in the infections and start a build on the heat box although it may be difficult because I'd have to run a extention cord to my barn and that may jack up my bill higher than I'd like but we'll see.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Bodhidan »

I'm digging this thread. I am pretty new to all this. Have only been doing neutral sugar washes until now trying to work on my fundamentals. My goal has always been Rum and I ran my first rum wash today. I had built a fermenting box which worked well.

Wash Recipe was 4l (2G) fancy molasses, 1.8kg (4 lbs) raw suger for a 39l (10G) Wash.. Used a yeast bomb and fermented in under 48hrs

I am running a four plate bubble plate column and running it rather quickly.

I have to say I was surprised by the initial aromas of the distillate. It came out smelling sweet and as things went on fruity and sour. I expected much more of the molasses then I was able to detect thus far. What are people experience with initial product as it comes off your still?
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

Right off the spout it's still a bit harsh although once in a while I'll catch the right jar and after 24 hours airing out I'll mix with coke and it's ok. NOT GOOD just ok as a mixer.

Fancy molasses costs too much here so I use feed and now I have a bunch of blackstrap, with fancy I got a lighter rum than from the feed but I'm actually going for a strong, full bodied rum which I'm sure you still have plenty of flavors and I'm quite sure you'll have to wait for the magic to happen with time.

There is something about time, even on my white rum that when it happens it just happens.

You can go the nuke route and help speed up the process and I believe it does but you'll still need some time, just less of it. IMHO
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Bodhidan »

OK, that's good to hear. The molasses plant for a major molasses distributer is pretty close to me so both black strap and fancy are affordable and available. I have another wash of fancy on now and then will move over to the blackstrap. I also enjoy my rum on the robust side, anything from London Dock to Appleton. Everything is airing now. I will dilute some of the mid run jars to 60% and put on charred wood chips. I suppose I'm getting ahead of myself, I just pictured the initial aromas to be vastly different then what I have come to expect from basic sugar shine.

I also realized that I accidentally doubled the brown sugar I had added to my wash per 5G so it's possible that my ABV was much higher then I had intended and is messing with the character.

Also
Shine0n wrote:
You can go the nuke route and help speed up the process and I believe it does but you'll still need some time, just less of it. IMHO
What do you mean Nuke Route?
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

60% is low for aging rum.

Sugar, even brown sugar, dilutes the flavor of the molasses In the ffinal product.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

I don't know how to link threads but there is a thread about heating the rum and oak in the microwave a couple times to help accelerate the aging process.

Now before I get my bootie chewed up let me clarify that nothing beats time BUT this method does IMHO work to speed up the process significantly.

I've done it many times on quarts and in 2 months it was absolutely great!

I'll look for it and post it back here if you haven't found it already.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

Chris, I wish you lived close to me so you could try my rum.
I'll say you're right to a degree if too much sugar is added but I have no problems with flavors when I use it moderately.

My rum is very bold and flavorful, if using just the moll expecially fancy it has a much higher sugar content than feed that is less than 50% mine is right at 43% so the addition of the sugar is kee for my rum.

It's smooth at 100p and I use little h20 to temper if possible.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

Sampling other distiller's product is a rare treat unfortunately :(

I'm not knocking sugar addition because I use it in varying degrees depending on the end product I'm aiming for. The only advantage to using brown sugar additions instead of white in NZ is because the molasses giving it colour is better flavored than the feed grade crap I had for my last round of ferments. Price wise, it is way cheaper to use feed molasses plus white than to use brown, which is why I've never added brown. That said, a couple of years later the bagasse flavors in the crappy feed grade only rums I did are disappearing and I was pleasantly surprised last time I proofed a sample.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Shine0n »

I've only been fortunate enough for a few samples from MCH, his raspberry mead and some sake which I'm still holding on to for new years. His mead was very very good and I'll let people know about the sake Jan 1st.

I have a few people on here who are relatively close and wouldn't pass the chance for a meet up but times are a premium right now but hopefully next year.
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by Bodhidan »

NZChris wrote:60% is low for aging rum.

Sugar, even brown sugar, dilutes the flavor of the molasses In the ffinal product.
What % would you recommend aging at ?
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Re: Feed grade molly and brown sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

I age my rums without diluting after the final cut, so 63-68%, but I know of a commercial distillery that ages at 78-80%. I've never tried going lower as I have heard that the flavors we want are more easily extracted from the wood at abvs above 60%, so my minimum for anything is 62.5%.
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