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Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:12 am
by sergiolis
Hi guys!!
I've been making Rad's AllBran neutral for a while and usually I recycle feints until I have enough to make a feints run..
On my experience from these feints runs i get about 50-60% of clean neutral... Every Feints run discarding foreshots but keeping heads and tails again...
I would like to know what are you doing with your heads and tails from a feint run.... do you discard them or do you keep them for the next feints run??
Maybe I'm so mirsely :D

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:35 am
by thecroweater
no its called diminished returns

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:44 am
by Bushman
Usually throw it in with the next run until I reach the end of whatever generation I am working on. Very seldom save for an all fients run but when I do I am after a neutral then as Crow said not worth keeping.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:01 am
by HDNB
there's booze in it right?

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:01 am
by StillerBoy
I recycle the heads of wine brandy feint runs(as I distill lots of wine from a friend who has a brew shop).. when I have enough of heads collected, which have been reduced to 60% for storage.. then make a heads only run reduced to 35%.. still some very nice spirit from the heads.. and my feints runs, as my heads only, all done at reflux for 95%..

With my setup, a boiler load of 28L @ 35%, takes about 2 hrs to get out of the heads which is about 1.5L at a few drops per second, then will get a good 6L of very nice spirit..

Have done heads only runs with other base wash/mash..

Mars

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:06 am
by Alchemist75
After reading up on all feints runs I've opted not to do them. Foreshot and heads cut all go into a special container and they get used for cleaning my gear. Tails and backings get recycled in stripping runs, I add them back to the wash to go through again. I've noticed that doing this increases my final yield of drinkable spirit. You'd think there would be a steady build up of fusels but I've not observed this to be the case. I do make a relatively early tail cut on strips, 40% abv so the fusels may just not be getting through. I squeeze as much out as I can and this method seems productive.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 11:20 am
by JellybeanCorncob
Normaly I will just put my feints (tails only) back in my strip wash’s. Last year I made lots of different whiskies, and abunch of rice vodka. lots of bottles with different feints. I deluded to 35% and threw the lot into my still and ran it. Cut to 62% and dropped 3 sticks of toasted chared oak in the bottle and put it in the shed.
I labeled the bottle “Old Tennis shoes” in honor of Steinbeck.
Gotta get into it and see what it tastes like. If it’s not to my liking I may play around with some of the essential oils I’ve been making and do a tincture or two. :?
JBC
Oh: The feints of my feints get thrown out with the bath water!

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:09 am
by nateboussad
yes i do,

Well I save all mine in different gallon jug's

pne for UJSSM one for SFW etc and when I get 1/2 to 1 gallon I throw it into the next same batch. Seems to work pretty well.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:22 am
by 8Ball
Not sure if what I do is the best way, but this is what I do:

Charge my pot boiler, no thumper, no more than 2/3 full with wash. Discard fores and early heads on each strip. Strip it out until I’ve collected 1/3 of the charge as low wines. The low wines usually are at 25-35%. Then do a spirit run on the low wines, keep my hearts cut, and recycle the heads and tails as feints to include in the next generation spirit run. Sound about right? Would it improve flavor if the feints from spirit runs be placed in the strip runs instead of the next spirit run?

8B

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:53 am
by nateboussad
Previous runs feints go into next runs feints of same type spirit. . I never have more than 10-15L feints on hand.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:05 am
by heynonny
there's booze in it right?
Yeah, but theres a lot more (I mean a lot more!) nasty stuff, the very stuff you dont want. Really high concentrations of it.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:17 pm
by Manc
I've started to use my feints of feints as a sanitizer for my fermenters while they are dormant.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:03 pm
by DetroitDIY
I have many bottles as Nateboussad does. I've been keeping all tails and often the heads too, but not always (depends on what thread's I've been reading lately about the various wisdom's out there). I run real deep on all my runs, to about 10% with temperature correction before shutting down... I figure that's still as strong as my strongest wash, so worth collecting... and I've never read bad news about recycling tails, only heads.

I was running a run 9 of rum this past weekend, and added 1.5 gallons of a heads/tails mixture into it. Tasting off the still, I was a little displeased about the flavor... a bit sharp. I've read that's what you detect when you've re-used your heads too much. So, I'll be dumping these heads jars when I make my cuts tonight.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:37 pm
by CuWhistle
From the New Members Reading Lounge Glossary of Terms.

Feints: Often used to refer to a mixture of heads and tails to be recycled into a following run. Some feel feints refer to tails only but not always defined as such on the various forums.

The former, (heads and tails) I used to just keep it separated for a run on it's own after dilution down to about 20%. I don't recycle heads into a following run. Why would you put it back in only to have to boil it and take it back out again? I'm in the process of building a LM column as I used to achieve good clean results from my old one. I haven't yet tried it in the pot but I'll have enough to give it a try soon. I've read that a soak of Bicarb Soda (for a week or so) or simply adding some Soda Ash (washing soda) to the boiler charge will clean it up some. Recommended quantities appear to be 1 TBSP / litre or quart for bicarb with a shake every now and then or 1 tsp / litre or quart for soda ash added straight to the boiler with the feints. Apparently this tidies up the heads end but does little to nothing for the tails. I'm going to buy some washing soda next shop and give it a trial. The outcome will determine if I bother again or not.

If it is the latter, (just tails) I rarely encountered much of it as I simply never saw the economy of going too far down in ABV on my strips, although this time around I have been going further than I used to. I've been charging 25 - 30 litres of 8% wash and taking 5 - 6 litres out at around 30%. This is close to 90% recovery and obviously contains some tails but I don't go any further. 4 strips then go into a spirit run. I'm cutting tails off the spirit run so I'm going far enough as far as I'm concerned. I take 200 - 250 ml of foreshots from each strip and remove it. There is no point leaving it in and having to reboil and remove a litre from the spirit run. It's about economy of energy and time, so efficiency, possibly at the expense of some flavour.

There is a difference between what you can do in a Pot still Versus a Column / Reflux / Fractioning.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:43 pm
by CuWhistle
DetroitDIY wrote: Tasting off the still, I was a little displeased about the flavor... a bit sharp. I've read that's what you detect when you've re-used your heads too much. So, I'll be dumping these heads jars when I make my cuts tonight.
This is consistent with my reading and past experience. More heads in means more heads out. There may be a small amount of net recovery but is it worth the input energy and time?
There is the same efficiency problem with tails but a different end result.

It is difficult to get your head around the byproduct concept. At first it is anyway.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:32 am
by nateboussad
nateboussad wrote:Previous runs feints go into next runs feints of same type spirit. . I never have more than 10-15L feints on hand.
Previous runs feints go into next runs feints of same type spirit.

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:40 am
by Saltbush Bill
[quote="Bushman"]Usually throw it in with the next run until I reach the end of whatever generation I am working on.
That's How Ive always done it ......there's a shit load of good alcohol left in heads and a heap of flavor left in tails.......been running that way for more than 50 generations in some cases and I'm not about to change that.
Having said that I wouldn't or havnt to date tried the same thing with neutral washes and probably wont ...I would and do add back the heads .....a good reflux still should be able to sort the good from the bad in that department ..if it cant it aint worth owning IMO .

Re: Do you recycle feints of feints?

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:26 am
by NZChris
Saltbush Bill wrote:
Bushman wrote:Usually throw it in with the next run until I reach the end of whatever generation I am working on.
That's How Ive always done it ......there's a shit load of good alcohol left in heads and a heap of flavor left in tails.......been running that way for more than 50 generations in some cases and I'm not about to change that.
I think that how much you can get away with depends on how you choose your heart cut and how soon you shut down in the tails. A wide heart cut leaves more concentrated nasties in the heads and tails than a narrow cut, and running deep into tails keeps more flavors and nasties than an early shutdown and it's all subjective. My choice of heads and tails may be unsuitable for continuous recycling, while another distiller's may be ok to recycle indefinitely.

My current rum experiment is a series of ferments and distillations where all of the foreshots heads and tails are being recycled every time, but using a different protocol to anything I've ever done before. My previous attempt at recycling rum heads and tails resulted in ever decreasing heart cuts, but that was a long time ago and I've had time to do a bit more research.