How much grain is enough?

[victor]

Hello all!! I’ve been trying new recipes I’ve found on this form and found one I like and its a modified version of ujjssm that I made, that I’ve been sticking with for sometime now. I love bourbon and I saw the honey bear bourbon recipe and I want to give it a try. I don’t want to do an all grain batch, adding sugar is ok with me! So my question is how much grain would be enough to get the flavor from the recipe without the grain/mash bill that it would take for a 40 gallons? Thanks in advance!

[fizzix]

You're asking a tough question, and I feel compelled to persuade you to go the all-grain route. It's that good.
However, if your mind is set otherwise, I'd split your 40-gallons and treat it as 20-gallons grain and 20-gallons sugar.
That would be 3.33x each grain in the Honey Bear recipe, plus 40-lbs sugar to make up your 40-gallons.
Take this as opinion only, as I wouldn't want to diminish the grains by less than 50%. Otherwise, what's the point?
Good luck with your journey!

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

TBH, the best thing about UJSSM is that it is not a 'recipe'. It is a process. You can replace the corn with any grain. I have made it using all oats, barley, rye, COB...all by using the 7lbs grain + 7lbs sugar per 5 gallon rule.

So, 40gallons = 56lbs grain, + 56lbs sugar

When broken down keeping the HBB grain ratios, it looks like this:

56 lbs sugar
37.5 lbs CORN (65%)
2.8 lbs HONEY MALT (5%)
5.6 lbs PALE(10%)
5.6 lbs WHITE WHEAT (10%)
5.6 lbs RED WHEAT (10%)

Now, with that said, that is almost $40 in grains (plus the cost of sugar). And here's the kicker. That's following the UJSSM recipe for those grains. But that 56 lbs of grains will also make 30 gallons of all grain if you simply boil water, instead of using room temp water (it's that simple of a difference). And, you save the $20 in sugar cost.

Hope this gives you some clarity and direction.

[victor]

Wow! Thanks.. I use flaked corn now, would the 7 lb. Rule be the same? I switch to flake when my neighbors in the culdesac would say that’s a lot of corn to be feeding to the birds after my ujssm generations. Ha! And I do plan on extracting the sugars but not having a garden or woods to dump my grains limits the amount of grain i feel comfortable using and disposing of!

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I do understand the grain issue. It's especially worse in the winter with snow, lol. That is why I switched my production schedule to do neutrals and rum in the winter, and do my all grains in the summer when I can cover the grains.

Flaked corn in usm? A waste, imo. It's expensive, and messy. Perfect if you through some enzymes in and converted all that loose starch, though.

[corene1]

Just so I am understanding. You want to make a sugar head copy of the honey bear bourbon recipe using sugar instead of malted grains? For that I would go to the feed store and buy re cleaned grains , they already have the husk removed. Crack them and use 5 to 7 pounds of grain per 5 gallons of water. For the sugar you can get a 1.046 sg from 1 pound of sugar to 1 gallon of water, so 1.5 pounds of sugar per gallon will give you a 1.069 starting gravity which for me is just right. Locally, recleaned barley and wheat run about $15 dollars a 50 pound bag and sugar averages 50 cents a pound plus or minus a bit. Another grain option would be to buy steam rolled or crimped grains. I just like all my grains to be cracked a bit . It brings out a bit more flavor in my thoughts.
Another thought for learning would be to use the Sweetfeed recipe on the tried and true. It makes a great drink and is an in expensive grain to buy. You can do it a couple of ways also. you can get sweetfeed mix (some feedstores call it four way blend) by the bag or get a COB mix ( Corn oats and barley) and add your own molasses to it . And use the same 5 to 7 pounds of grain per 5 gallons as well as 1.5 pounds of sugar per gallon.
As far as the wash goes I would put my grains in the fermenter and boil half my water and pour in to the grains and stir in my sugar until well mixed. Then cool wash with the other half of the water . From there you would do all the other processes for a good ferment. Check PH add some calcium as buffer aerate and pitch yeast at the proper temperature.
Just for something to think about , a lot of folks here will just remove the spent grain from the wash and replace it with fresh grain then use some of the back set from the previous run to make a 2nd generation ferment. That way you don't have to dispose of the entire 50 plus pounds of grain all at one time.
All the details are here at HD but it would take much too long of a post to write them all down here.

[victor]

Thanks for the info! Just what I needed!

[Longhairedcountryboy]

Victor, I used to bag my spent gains and pitch it in the trash. It would go to the curb on trash night and get picked up by the garbage truck.

Now I have a compost bin. It is a box made of 4 pallets stood upright and held up with t posts and zip straps. I dump my grains in with household compostables. I carry the grains out to it in 5 gallon buckets. The neighbors cannot see what I'm dumping into the compost.

[Expat]

Green compost bin is big enough around here to take the spent grains from a 60-70# run. Gets picked up weekly so it convenient. During the summer it makes good compost at home.

[Newguy87]

TBH, the best thing about UJSSM is that it is not a 'recipe'. It is a process. You can replace the corn with any grain. I have made it using all oats, barley, rye, COB...all by using the 7lbs grain + 7lbs sugar per 5 gallon rule.

So, 40gallons = 56lbs grain, + 56lbs sugar



When broken down keeping the HBB grain ratios, it looks like this:

56 lbs sugar
37.5 lbs CORN (65%)
2.8 lbs HONEY MALT (5%)
5.6 lbs PALE(10%)
5.6 lbs WHITE WHEAT (10%)
5.6 lbs RED WHEAT (10%)

Now, with that said, that is almost $40 in grains (plus the cost of sugar). And here's the kicker. That's following the UJSSM recipe for those grains. But that 56 lbs of grains will also make 30 gallons of all grain if you simply boil water, instead of using room temp water (it's that simple of a difference). And, you save the $20 in sugar cost.

Hope this gives you some clarity and direction.

I have a question I would like to make 10 gallons of this mash could I divide the ingredients by 10x to get my ingredients needed

[kiwi Bruce]

TBH, the best thing about UJSSM is that it is not a 'recipe'. It is a process. You can replace the corn with any grain. I have made it using all oats, barley, rye, COB...all by using the 7lbs grain + 7lbs sugar per 5 gallon rule.
I have a question I would like to make 10 gallons of this mash could I divide the ingredients by 10x to get my ingredients needed...
No divide by four
So, 40gallons = 56lbs grain, + 56lbs sugar
So, 10gallons = 14lbs grain, + 14lbs sugar



When broken down keeping the HBB grain ratios, it looks like this:

56 lbs sugar
14 lbs sugar
37.5 lbs CORN (65%)
9.5 lbs Corn
2.8 lbs HONEY MALT (5%)
1/2 lb Honey Malt
5.6 lbs PALE(10%)
1.5 lbs Pale
5.6 lbs WHITE WHEAT (10%)
1.5 lbs White Wheat
5.6 lbs RED WHEAT (10%)
1.5 lbs Red Wheat

Now, with that said, that is almost $40 in grains (plus the cost of sugar). And here's the kicker. That's following the UJSSM recipe for those grains. But that 56 lbs of grains will also make 30 gallons of all grain if you simply boil water, instead of using room temp water (it's that simple of a difference). And, you save the $20 in sugar cost.

Hope this gives you some clarity and direction.

I have a question I would like to make 10 gallons of this mash could I divide the ingredients by 10x to get my ingredients needed
No...by 4

Does this help?

[Newguy87]

TBH, the best thing about UJSSM is that it is not a 'recipe'. It is a process. You can replace the corn with any grain. I have made it using all oats, barley, rye, COB...all by using the 7lbs grain + 7lbs sugar per 5 gallon rule.
I have a question I would like to make 10 gallons of this mash could I divide the ingredients by 10x to get my ingredients needed...
No divide by four
So, 40gallons = 56lbs grain, + 56lbs sugar
So, 10gallons = 14lbs grain, + 14lbs sugar



When broken down keeping the HBB grain ratios, it looks like this:

56 lbs sugar
14 lbs sugar
37.5 lbs CORN (65%)
9.5 lbs Corn
2.8 lbs HONEY MALT (5%)
1/2 lb Honey Malt
5.6 lbs PALE(10%)
1.5 lbs Pale
5.6 lbs WHITE WHEAT (10%)
1.5 lbs White Wheat
5.6 lbs RED WHEAT (10%)
1.5 lbs Red Wheat

Now, with that said, that is almost $40 in grains (plus the cost of sugar). And here's the kicker. That's following the UJSSM recipe for those grains. But that 56 lbs of grains will also make 30 gallons of all grain if you simply boil water, instead of using room temp water (it's that simple of a difference). And, you save the $20 in sugar cost.

Hope this gives you some clarity and direction.

I have a question I would like to make 10 gallons of this mash could I divide the ingredients by 10x to get my ingredients needed
No...by 4

Does this help?

Yes this helps thanks now one more question can I use corn meal instead of corn as corn meal is easier accessible then just corn in bulk or flaked maize

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

You just joined yesterday, and that question says to me that you know just enough to be dangerous. Why don't you do the required reading before you make anything?

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Also, it seems somehow you squeaked past our welcome center. Go there and introduce yourself before you post any further. Tell us about your background.

[Newguy87]

Also, it seems somehow you squeaked past our welcome center. Go there and introduce yourself before you post any further. Tell us about your background.

Wow so it's like that good ti know how u treat new people around here all I did was ask 2 simple questions but I get it I'll just learn from YouTube and blow my house up thanks for the help

[still_stirrin]

Also, it seems somehow you squeaked past our welcome center. Go there and introduce yourself before you post any further. Tell us about your background.

Wow so it's like that good ti know how u treat new people around here all I did was ask 2 simple questions but I get it I'll just learn from YouTube and blow my house up thanks for the help

Aren’t you getting a little sensitive here?

Our policy (on the forum) is to introduce yourself in the New Distiller forum when you’ve been added. In fact, it is usually directed in the return email when you’re confirmed. The introduction gives us a little “window” into your experience level and possibly what equipment you have, or even what products you prefer. It helps us to formulate answers to your questions with the degree of experience you may not have (yet).

This “introduce yourself” comment was not meant to offend you at all. We want you to be safe, knowledgeable, and responsible in this hobby.

And the “Youtube” comment is a dangerous swipe at the website. Youtube offers a world of info but it is not controlled and as a result, can lead you astray. And it can make you dangerous to yourself and others. As a result, we DO NOT advocate it as an appropriate, or even acceptable avenue of gaining experience. Caution be to the user. At least here you’ll get a discussion of advantages, disadvantages, guidance, opinions, and cautions based upon our collective experience and knowledge.

Sorry for the offense....but, perhaps you need a little “tougher skin”.
ss

[pgnet]

Didn't see that train comin

[kiwi Bruce]

I think there's a slim chance Newguy87 will be back...
in fact I think slim just got on his horse and rode away...
so that leaves no chance.