Making a sugar wash

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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goinbroke2
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Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

So I looked at a bunch of sugar wash recipes.
Doing 100L batch.
Starting out by inverting some sugar and getting the main part ready to go. Just used what I have in the house right now.(a bit spontaneous)
Water ph is 3.98, dropped from my well waters normal 6.12. Dropped it with calcium chloride.
1 tsp of CC
1 tsp of acid blend from the wine shop.
2 “two a day” tablets
6kg of sugar (all my pot will hold)
1/4 cup or a bit more of yeast.
Pinch of epsom salt (1/4-1/2 tsp)

Got to boiling and let simmer for an hour.

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Last edited by goinbroke2 on Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

Ok, once that’s done I’ll take it to the garage and start filling the fermenter.
Then top it with sugar/water to 100L and when temp is right pitch bread yeast.

Not sure if there’s a question there or not, looking for confirmation it’ll work or a “holy crap don’t do that!” Lol.

Stilling for a lot of years but trying a recipe for the first time, lol.
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by StillerBoy »

goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:49 am Water ph is 3.98, dropped from my well waters normal 6.12. Dropped it with calcium chloride.
Why calcium chloride as it's a salt, and yeast don't like salt.. citric acid or lemon juice is what should be used..

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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Yummyrum »

You looked at a whole bunch of sugar wash recipes but you somehow missed that they all have some sort of yeast nuetrient . Sure , epsom salts will help but you need something else . Tomato paste wash uses Tomato. paste . Others have addition of cereals like bran or wheatbix etc .Others will use straight DAP and Crushed B vitamin tablets . Some use boiled bread yeast to supply the B vitamins . .....or you could simply use Wine Yeast Nutrient from a HBS .Eitherway , yeast need more than just sugar to grow heathy enough to survive the end of fermentation .

As far as the Calcium Chloride maybe that was a typo , as SB said , its a salt . Perhaps you were thinking about Calcium Carbonate or sea shells.

I also think that 6kg sugar in a 25l wash is too much . Now go for only 4 kg ... sure the yeild is lower but the quality s much better .

EDIT: sorry , I see you used “two a day “ tablets .I can only assume these are multivitamins . I’d still recommend boiling up a 500g bag of bran and mixing that through for extra nutrients and it also helps with mouth feel IMO .
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by StillerBoy »

goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:49 am 1/4 cup or a bit more of yeast.
He relaying on a yeast bomb.. or that what I see.. and he's making a 100L wash, so more sugar will be needed..

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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

I boiled a half cup of yeast and added the vitamins for nutrients. This is just the “starter” as that’s as big as my pot is. It will end up 20kg’s of sugar in a 100L wash.

Here’s the calcium. I was given this by the local brew shop who said this is what to use to drop your ph.
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Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by still_stirrin »

goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pmHere’s the calcium. I was given this by the local brew shop who said this is what to use to drop your ph.
This is a good reason NOT TO LISTEN TO HIM.

An acid will lower the pH...a base will raise it. Phosphoric acid is best (yeast love phosphorus). Citric acid (lemon juice or dry from the pickling aisle) is easy to use and quite effective to lower pH. Pickling lime or slacked lime (calcium hydroxide) is a great base for raising the pH.

Calcium Chloride is a salt and is used to “harden” the water, like for brewing a bitter beer.

Of course, calcium is helpful for the enzyme activity for starch conversion. But the chloride ion is harmful for yeast activity, so if you use it to alter your brewing water for beer, it should be a limited quantity (sparingly).
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by StillerBoy »

goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pm Here’s the calcium. I was given this by the local brew shop who said this is what to use to drop your ph.
For your yrs around this forum, and still relay on the brew shop for advise.. ? ? ?

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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:13 pm
goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pm Here’s the calcium. I was given this by the local brew shop who said this is what to use to drop your ph.
For your yrs around this forum, and still relay on the brew shop for advise.. ? ? ?

Mars
Lol, no I went in and bought some enzymes and stuff and then remembered I needed this “calcium stuff” for adjusting ph. Buddy came out because the girl was clueless. He assured me this was what I need to adjust my ph. I got home and went $&@:!
That was months ago and when I did my spontaneous “I think I’ll throw on a batch” today it was one of the things I brought upstairs.

I think I’ll throw it out so I don’t do the same thing next time. 😂
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

And of course there’s a hitch. It’s after 9 pm and I still haven’t got the batch on, just got a call my buddy is broke down so I’ll be gone for a couple hours.
Is there any issue leaving this until tomorrow?
I got no choice but I won’t be putting it on until tomorrow afternoon/evening.
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by StillerBoy »

There should be no issues.. the only things would be pitching temp.. so leave so space so as to be able to add hot water to bring it to pitching temp..

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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by TDick »

goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:49 am So I looked at a bunch of sugar wash recipes.
Some reason you did not want to use a Tried & True Recipe?
(There's a very good reason they are called that.)

Reminds me of a time a couple of years ago I reported I wanted to follow a recipe EXACTLY

but with just one or two adjustments.

Got my butt toasted, and deservedly so.

Follow the TNT & you won't have to wonder. All the questions you can imagine - along with the answers - are there.

If you choose to be bull-headed - it's certainly be done before - you might at least read through FFV thread. I will at least educate you on what to expect with a sugar wash.
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by NZChris »

TFFV isn’t very neutral.
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Yummyrum »

NZChris wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:33 pm TFFV isn’t very neutral.
It’ll be more neutral than a wash made with 6kg sugar / 25L :ewink:
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

Yummyrum wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:26 pm
NZChris wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:33 pm TFFV isn’t very neutral.
It’ll be more neutral than a wash made with 6kg sugar / 25L :ewink:
Again, it’s not 6kg/25L it’s 20kg’s/100L. This was just the first pot full I made to add all the nutrients and invert some sugar.(6kg’s of the eventual total of 20kg’s)
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by shadylane »

So you have around 1.7 pounds sugar per gallon.
And a " PUGIDOGS yeast bomb" for nutrients.
If the weather is warm, don't put the lid on tight :lol:
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Yummyrum »

goinbroke2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:23 pm
Yummyrum wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:26 pm
NZChris wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:33 pm TFFV isn’t very neutral.
It’ll be more neutral than a wash made with 6kg sugar / 25L :ewink:
Again, it’s not 6kg/25L it’s 20kg’s/100L. This was just the first pot full I made to add all the nutrients and invert some sugar.(6kg’s of the eventual total of 20kg’s)
Sorry .Having a bad day :cry:
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

Lol, you and me too brother!
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Not sure »

So I made a sugar wash and forgot the yeast nutrient its four days in and isnt close to done yet as it was 1072 at the start and is now 1040 its clearly active I see the yeast moving around wondering if I could add nutrients now and be fine. Its temp is 82f and ph is 4.8
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by still_stirrin »

Not sure wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:01 am.....wondering if I could add nutrients now and be fine. Its temp is 82f and ph is 4.8
Do it.

No need to stir it if the activity is still visible. The nutrients will energize yeast activity within 24 hours.
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Re: Making a sugar wash

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still_stirrin wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:39 am
Not sure wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:01 am.....wondering if I could add nutrients now and be fine. Its temp is 82f and ph is 4.8
Do it.

No need to stir it if the activity is still visible. The nutrients will energize yeast activity within 24 hours.
ss
Thanks SS I added it in and put the blankets back on it.stupid mistake on my part I've been doing this a few years now
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

Ha! Like me, doing it forever and still make rookie mistakes due to brain fade. :tired:
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

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goinbroke2 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:59 am Ha! Like me, doing it forever and still make rookie mistakes due to brain fade. :tired:
I swear its like the 50th time I made that wash i cant believe i did that hopefully it finishes now
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Re: Making a sugar wash

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still_stirrin wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:39 am
Not sure wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:01 am.....wondering if I could add nutrients now and be fine. Its temp is 82f and ph is 4.8
Do it.

No need to stir it if the activity is still visible. The nutrients will energize yeast activity within 24 hours.
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

Well I already screwed up. I put it on at 100 deg and put a warming belt on it. My thinking was, it’s still 0 to +4 at night so keep it warm. Covered it with some blankets and left it. It WAS roaring along after hour or so, couple inches of kruzen. Came out this morning and it’s still 100 or 101 but dead...
Duh, I overheated it, forgot that bigger batches build their own heat. I knew this...just dumb mistake. Maybe I should do smaller batches but more often? Lol.
Anyway, added more yeast, closed it up and put everything away.(about 30 seconds) opened it to have a last look and holy crap it’s foaming again!
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by goinbroke2 »

This after 30 seconds or so.
3F2175F9-A442-4657-BC2A-DA72FE0DE5BB.jpeg
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Toxxyc »

100f shouldn't kill baking yeast. In fact, it should keep it pretty damn active. I ferment most of my washes around 90F, so I highly doubt 100F will really kill all the yeast in there.

Chances are the addition of more yeast created nucleus points for the CO2 to escape, and that's what you're seeing, meaning it's done fermenting. Have you tested the SG?
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by StillerBoy »

Toxxyc wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:31 am 100f shouldn't kill baking yeast. In fact, it should keep it pretty damn active. I ferment most of my washes around 90F, so I highly doubt 100F will really kill all the yeast in there.
At 100*F, It surely would kill them, but it will surely effect them on how the wash ferments out..

Pitching at that temp, and that temp maintain for a period of time, will cause the yeast to stop before the ferment finishes dry.. it is very probable is will not go beyond .020 in dryness..

Best range to ferment bread yeast is at 80 - 85*F.. yeah they also do ferment at well at 85 - 90*F but leave/create an off flavor in the process..

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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Bren »

Hi all I've just been reading this thread and keep seeing comments about 6kg sugar to 25ltr wash.

I'm brand new to this

I've followed a recipe that had me put 7kg white sugar in 25ltr wash with turbo yeast it looks and tastes like it's fermented but is still very cloudy. I was just going to run it off but I'm not sure I need to do something else now any comments would be appreciated.
I'm running a little 25ltr pot still.
Many thanks.
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Re: Making a sugar wash

Post by Yummyrum »

Hi Bren .
Hate to break it to you but Turbo yeast makes a nasty Sugar wash . Especially if you are going to run it through a Pot still .
First off , Turbo yeasts were developed for converting the maximum of sugar per wash into alcohol for the fuel industry with no regard for making a palatable drink .

The Homebrew shop industry latched onto it and sell it . Unfortunately , when you ferment much higher than about 5kg /25L , the yeast produce a whole bunch of off flavours as they chew through that last few kgs of sugar .

The HBS will sell you carbon filtering equipment to try and remove the bad taste , but it is still there .

Using a good reflux still will dramatically improve the flavour of a Turbo wash as the still can more easily compress the nasty at the start and the nasty at the end .
Alas , a Pot still will not provide anywhere near acceptable separation and even if you were to do multiple redistillations with tight hearts cuts on each , you will still end up with horrible drink .

This is why we have a tried and tested section with Sugar washes that will taste OK even if you have to use a Pot still .

So , if you have not already done so, you might be best to use this Turbo wash as a sacrificial cleaning run for your new still . Then put down a non turbo wash such as Shadys sugar shine .

To answer your question about the murky wash , if you just leave it fir a week or so it will naturally clear . If you cant wait , you can use those turbo clear products from the HBS shop .

I would honestly say that 99% or more if our members just let it clear naturally . However , there isn’t really much difference distilling it cloudy or clear .
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