Death in Australia being linked to homemade spirits

[drinkingdog]

http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It doesn't say much in the way of them distilling it or not. Sad and aggravating it sure makes it hard to push for legalization when stupid stuff like this happens

admin edit: update here https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-15/ ... hs/7511848

[Mr Shine]

When I clicked your link, it took me to the homepage. It obviously works for today, but here's the direct link for future reference:

http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news ... s/1900423/

Thanks.

[MartinCash]

Here's another one:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-11/m ... ed/4745014

MC

[Jimbo]

I would have never guessed there was that much methanol produced from the skins stems and pips. Figure some yes, but damn, make some fores cuts for christs sake. Or maybe the little bastards found the fores jug and made way. Be interesting to see a follow up from the investigation.

[Dnderhead]

"I would have never guessed there was that much methanol produced from the skins stems and pips."
the original grappa was pretty "rough" being made from all stems,seed etc. the new way to make it is
removing as much stems/seed as possible before fermenting. and many is made from the whole grape so its now more of a brandy? rather than the old "grappa"..

[goose eye]

sounds like they was hi testin it.- addin likker to the charge-.

so im tole

[rad14701]

One has to wonder whether these guys ended up drinking undiluted foreshots...

[mash rookie]

It is sad that some wonderful young men lost their lives to some type of poisoning. But, this is the exact kind of propaganda policing agencies love to spew and the exact kind of drama news agency’s love to repeat, embellish and embellish again. The follow up story will be on second page noting they died from unknown substances related to moonshine.

That is the up hill battle faced by those that desire to see the hobby legalized.

The fact is folks, AND BECAUSE YOU ARE EDUCATED HOBBIEST’S YOU KNOW THIS. There is not enough methanol in grappa to harm anyone. Even with no cuts. The antidote for methanol poisoning is Ethanol. Headaches yes. Death no.
My girlfriend is an Emergency room Nurse. They have homeless alcoholics that intentionally drink methanol to get drunk than end up there getting their stomach pumped before being given pure ethanol intravenously. They live.

We all will wonder what the sad truth is.

[Gamblor]

This happened not too far from where I live.

No matter how I look at it, I cannot imagine what error led to this tragedy. Everything I have read on this site and elsewhere indicates there is no risk of biological contamination from high proof spirits, and methanol content should be nowhere near deadly.

All I can conclude is:
a) They concentrated methanol somehow in their brew, perhaps by re-use of heads; or
b) They bought their grappa from someone else who cut it with something harmful; or
c) Their equipment was unsafe in some way, ie lead or other harmful product in the vapour path.

In any case I guess I will have to be extra careful now, as the authorities in my area will probably be 'awake' to distilling whereas previously they were not. I am also going to avoid any fruit based ferments (the last banana one I attempted smelled so awful I turfed it). UJSSM, Vodka and Rum only for me.

[Buccaneer Bob]

It would be nice if we could get a logical explanation for the deaths.

Definitely a blood toxicology report would tell us a lot.

One story blames "moonshine" but points toward other substances being involved, and the other story blames "suspected methanol poisoning", emphasis on the "suspected" part.

As we all know, there are a lot of people with ideas that go back to some of the propaganda that came out of the days of prohibition: "That stuff will make you go blind" and so on.

A few possible causes for the deaths include:
* plain old alcohol poisoning from drinking too much
* they somehow managed to gather and concentrate a bunch of methanol (from fermenting the skins or pulled out of the stems perhaps?)
* cyanide from fruit pits
* other substances involved (recreational drugs, chemicals on the fruit or in a drum used for a fermentation vessel, etc.)
* carbon monoxide poisoning from running a faulty propane burner in an enclosed space
* and about a million other possibilities

I say, if there's something for us home distillers to learn from this, great. Let's learn from this.

But without further information to go on, we're pretty much clueless as to what went wrong.

It's sad about the boys.

But we do have to keep in mind that there are obtuse news reporters who are always happy to make a hoopla in order to sell newspapers, there are government officials with age-old propaganda in their heads, etc., etc., etc., and we have to push those folks to dig a little bit deeper for the truth.

[BoomTown]

Too many questions, and the news reporting is vague, but the story is very sad.

Personally, the lack of details makes me wonder if the fault might lie in the equipment? Is it possible their process leached something into the alcohol that contributed to the bad results?

[rad14701]

It's very possible that there were other contributing factors, as Buccaneer Bob mentioned... As an example, about two winters ago, not far from here, in the area where I used to camp, two young guys were found dead... It was the middle of winter yet they were found frozen to death totally naked... They had been drinking and started messing with bath salts... The best anyone can figure is that the booze and bath salts made them think they were way too warm so the stripped and started running about in the cold... Once the alcohol and bath salts really kicked in their systems slowed down and they passed out and died of hypothermia even though they had warm clothes and vehicle close by... These deaths in Australia could have happened under similar circumstances... But that doesn't make illegal spirits the direct blame, merely a contributing component...

[Da Yooper]

Very sad indeed, this is why the Master Distillers from this forum preach so much on the readings and research to be done before the first run. They may seem like hard asses at times but they are doing there best to keep all of us safe. Respect the knowledge that is givin, have fun and be safe.

[BoomTown]

Several months ago, I broke the bottom out of the glass tube I'd been using to do ABV testing on the still's output. So I grabbed up the plastic one I'd been using to test the SG of the mashes, it was made of plastic (and it came as part of one of those beer making kits). Following that event, I immediately ordered several more glass tubes to replace the one broken because....the high concentration of alcohol from the still's output made the plastic (beer kit) testing tube show spiderweb cracks all up and down. At first the spiderweb cracking stopped right about where I'd stopped the fill for the tests I'd been doing. Two days later, that plastic testing tube had actually disintegrated, even though I'd rinsed it with water before I set it aside.

Now, I'm no purest, but I admit to a bit of a compulsive/obsessive disorder, and I've stopped using any plastic in my process past the fermenting in 7 gallon buckets. Even those buckets I bought from U.S. Plastics paying premium prices for "food grade" rated for use as storage of vineger and wine, to replace the cheaper HomeDepot buckets I had been using.

My point is, I'm wondering if those boys in AU might have been using some plastic vessels that may have contaminated their output? If there is something to learn from the AU tragedy, it sure would be nice to have more detail...but as it stands, my bet would be that they used an inferior component in their process that may have been the contributing factor to the bad end results.

[drinkingdog]

By the news report it doesn't sound like they were the distillers. No mention of a still and at the end of the report they mentioned that you shouldn't drink anything that you don't know what is in it. The one thing that I am taking from this with the lack of Info is I won't be buying and drinking shine from anyone anymore. If i don't brew it I ain't drinking it

[Black Eye]

It's possible they were using rubbing alcohol in some capacity, thinking they could still it out and clean it up ??? Just a thought

[Jimbo]

They said it was grappa and they live in a wine growing region. Im guessing someone made hooch from a pile of vineyard dregs. Too much stems and crap. Pectin in skins makes methanol. So does stems. Maybe they got hold of the fores jug and proceeded to get slammed on it.

[Gaztops]

They could have poisoned themselves over a short period of time like a weekend binge.

[drinkingdog]

The latest

http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news ... e/1902107/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Andy Capp]

According to the latest news reports, a third person has died. This really is a tragic end for those involved and their families and friends who must now deal with the consequences. I don't think we'll know for sure what happened until the coroners report is released and that can take months.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Sounds like the reporters on this latest story are actually doing their homework. Good for them. It gives me hope that at least some of the folks at the news outlets aren't willing to accept simplistic explanations like: "Well, they drank moonshine, and that's why they died, from drinking moonshine."

[Saltbush Bill]

Another update here, http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/- ... nt-friend/

[drinkingdog]

Looks like it is going from drinking moonshine to bio diesel fuel. Good for the hobby but still very tragic and sad for the young men that died and their families.

[Black Eye]

I hope every member here has ready this story, especially all the "newbies" walking in the door. The ones that ask why they can't use rubber seals, glass jars.... you know the guys. Perfect example of what can happens if you don't practice saftey.

[Stainless]

Hi folks
Methanol is the base ingredient with either sodium hydroxide or potassium, it makes a very dangerous chemical when you mix them with methanol. Methanol is sold at 99% purity and used for conversion of waste veg oil to make biodiesel. Isopropyl alcohol is also used in 'titration' process to see amounts of chemicals required for conversion.
My heart goes out to the families concerned.
Take care
Stainless

[CuWhistle]

Not meant for human consumption. Latest reports are that it was for biodiesel. They are waiting for the 4th victim to recover to try to determine why they ended up drinking it.

Lucky to have survived but may have suffered permanent eye damage.

[CuWhistle]

Conflicting reports are still suggesting that this was home made Grappa that was consumed without making cuts. The biodiesel story might be a bit of a smokescreen. ABC radio has been having on-air discussion with a boutique distillery operator and other interested parties about the prevalence and nature of home distillation in Australia, the actual wording of laws etc.

Hope this doesn't cause another knee jerk reaction.

[goose eye]

Just the ole boys thinking but it sounds like
they tryed to hi test the likker. Someone
noes the grapa wont no where strong enough
an added that other hier proof likker to it.
Sure hope it wont someone tryin to make
a buck
They like playing that game in Africa alot.



So im tole

[Usge]

Friend in India told me sometimes whole villages (about 100-150 people) die from drinking illegal likker made with truck radiators, etc..ie., glycol posioning. When I tole him what a shame it was...he wagged his head side-to-side and said...."this is just "rounnnding off error in India". He told me it happens all the time.

[CuWhistle]

African nations and India with 100's of millions population and 3rd world / developing nation status is a bit different to western world developed Australia with population of 22 million people of generally high education and socio-economic standard. Comparing apples and lemons there fellas.