Sacrificial Run

A MUST READ FORUM Place where new distillers can read many of the important documents that help introduce them to distilling. This is a read-only forum.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
scmoose
Novice
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:05 pm

Sacrificial Run

Post by scmoose » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:52 am

I need to do a sacrificial / cleaning run and was going to use a 5 gallon UJSSC wash but the more I think about it the more I don’t want to waste that mash. If I went with a cheap box wine how much would I need to use in a 1/2 barrel keg boiler and a 1/16 keg thumper?

User avatar
still_stirrin
Master Distiller
Posts: 8208
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:33 am

I suggest making an “Rad’s All Bran” recipe. It is quick and economical. And, once you’ve done your sac run, you should make another all bran recipe, simply because it makes a great base spirit for a neutral. The all bran cereal has all the necessary nutrients to support a healthy and fast ferment. And the cereal grains helps to buffer the wash against a pH crash which can cause the ferment to stall. Look for the recipe in the Tried & True forum.

A cheap (purchased) box wine is not cheap. Chances are you spent more than you would on the all bran recipe (hence my suggestion). But as to “how much” do you need? ... I say, “the size of a regular run”, so 3/4 the size of your boiler...or 9-10 gallons for a 1/2 barrel keg boiler. See.....box wines will get expensive to fill the boiler.
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K

scmoose
Novice
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by scmoose » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:00 pm

I’ve already got a UJSSM ready I may jut use it

User avatar
still_stirrin
Master Distiller
Posts: 8208
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:10 pm

scmoose wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:00 pm
I’ve already got a UJSSM ready I may jut use it
Just remember, it’s sacrificial...meaning you dump it and don’t drink or taste it.
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K

scmoose
Novice
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by scmoose » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:45 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
scmoose wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:00 pm
I’ve already got a UJSSM ready I may jut use it
Just remember, it’s sacrificial...meaning you dump it and don’t drink or taste it.
ss

Yeah that’s what makes me not want to waste the mash and run something else.

cayars
Distiller
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by cayars » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:23 pm

Keep the wine, drink it or save it for a brandy run later. Sacrifice the UJSSM.

It would be better if you had just done a straight sugar wash but USSSM is quick to do and not much different in cost over a straight sugar wash.
Run it fast like a strip run, then load the low wines back in the boiler and run them again like a spirit run. Discard after this but don't drink it. That will give you 2 runs to play with while cleaning the still and allowing you to get the feel for both strip and spirit runs.
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.

User avatar
Corsaire
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:20 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Corsaire » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:24 pm

Or, if you have a spare fermenter, cook up an all bran like still stirrin said or a birdwatchers. If you've got that ujssm airlocked it'll keep a while.

scmoose
Novice
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by scmoose » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:19 pm

Ok wound up running the 5 gallons of UJSSM I had. Man this thing ran so much faster than my old home made slant plate reflux column. Started at 70+ % and ran it down to 40%. Having a hard time tossing everything since there are no off taste or smells, and it’s as clear as water.

User avatar
still_stirrin
Master Distiller
Posts: 8208
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by still_stirrin » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:24 pm

scmoose wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:19 pm
Ok wound up running the 5 gallons of UJSSM I had. Man this thing ran so much faster than my old home made slant plate reflux column. Started at 70+ % and ran it down to 40%. Having a hard time tossing everything since there are no off taste or smells, and it’s as clear as water.
You’re “living on the edge”.

At best, it could give you the puking shits, that is...when you sit on the pot with a trash can in your hands.

Worst case...it could KIlL you.

It is absolutely NOT ADVISED to keep the sacrificial run product! Don’t be tempted.
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K

Tabucowboy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:11 am
Location: By God WV

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Tabucowboy » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:47 am

Burn Sacrificial Runs that is what I do. it is great fuel for campfires, BBQ to get them started pour it on a log an light it up.
CM Reflux Still -- Copper mesh 16" ,column 31" tall, dia. 2",temp at boiler,top of column, power - PAC w5500w Element
Pot Still -- Copper mesh 16",column, 23" tall dia. 2", temp at boiler, power - PAC w5500w Element

cayars
Distiller
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:08 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by cayars » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:47 pm

scmoose wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:19 pm
Ok wound up running the 5 gallons of UJSSM I had. Man this thing ran so much faster than my old home made slant plate reflux column. Started at 70+ % and ran it down to 40%. Having a hard time tossing everything since there are no off taste or smells, and it’s as clear as water.
You do this run to clean out poisons from your still from soldering, welding and machining. You're removing residual flux and chemicals used in the process of making it.

Poisons don't always have a taste or smell so you will not know what's in the first distillate.
It's called a SACRIFICE RUN for a reason because it will contain things you DO NOT want in your body.
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.

ZMan3k
Novice
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 6:02 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by ZMan3k » Thu May 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Why not just do a simple sugar mash for the sacrificial run? Cheap and easy and since it doesn't make for great likker its no big deal just to dump it or use it for campfire fuel.

User avatar
TDick
Distiller
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:25 pm
Location: Sweet Home

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by TDick » Thu May 28, 2020 1:53 pm

Lot of newcomer going through the stages.
FWIW, I got my 5 gallon copper pot out of the closet but had to solder, so I need a sac run to be safe.
I just did enough mash to do an extra run.

Doesn't make sense TO ME to do a separate fermentation to toss.
Simply adding 4-5 gallons to your ferment just costs pennies and saves a week or so.

Black Hearts
Novice
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:02 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Black Hearts » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:45 pm

scmoose wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:19 pm
Ok wound up running the 5 gallons of UJSSM I had. Man this thing ran so much faster than my old home made slant plate reflux column. Started at 70+ % and ran it down to 40%. Having a hard time tossing everything since there are no off taste or smells, and it’s as clear as water.

I really hope you didn't drink it..
The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage..

Royco
Bootlegger
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:00 am
Location: Western Cape, South Africa

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Royco » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:38 am

I BET you drank it!

Royco
Bootlegger
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:00 am
Location: Western Cape, South Africa

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Royco » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:41 am

With a new Liebig can I not just plug the end and fill the vapour tube with hot vinegar/water mix and leave overnight. Then do a sac with a smaller amount of spirit?

User avatar
NZChris
Master Distiller
Posts: 8878
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by NZChris » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:01 am

Royco wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:41 am
With a new Liebig can I not just plug the end and fill the vapour tube with hot vinegar/water mix and leave overnight. Then do a sac with a smaller amount of spirit?
If it's made out of stainless, it should be fine, but I wouldn't recommend doing that to copper.

Royco
Bootlegger
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:00 am
Location: Western Cape, South Africa

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Royco » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:25 am

It's a copper vapour tube inside NZ

User avatar
NZChris
Master Distiller
Posts: 8878
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by NZChris » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:45 am

I haven't seen yours, but mine can be cleaned manually. When new, most of them didn't have any solder joints in contact with product, so didn't need sacrificial runs and just got a pull through with a foreshot soaked rag.

Royco
Bootlegger
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:00 am
Location: Western Cape, South Africa

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Royco » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:12 am

Oh brilliant! Never thought of that. As a newbie I have this immediate gratification thing and don't want to waste good spirit that is waiting to be re-distilled into drinkable rum or gin! My whole rig is SS apart from the vapour tube. All sections tri-clamped so easy to access.
Thanks so much for the advice

Bee
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:20 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Bee » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:36 am

I'd use the cheapest rum I could find. Calypso for $10/1.75 liter.

normandy
Novice
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by normandy » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:24 pm

I have left the copper column . the condenser etc in 50% vinegar bath for 24 hours, turned the clear solution into a greenish bluish color, and also changed my coppers from stained dull darkish color into a nice bright yellow color. Washed with water and polished it with a cloth and now I can see my reflection!
I plan to do a 50% vinegar run next and then a pure water run to get rid of the vinegar residue.
After all these cleaning stages do i still need to do a sacrificial run?

User avatar
zed255
Rumrunner
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by zed255 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:39 pm

The sacrificial run is always recommended as final assurance there is no oil or flux residue left, especially in areas where mechanical / manual cleaning and direct visual inspection are difficult or impossible.

For me, a new build gets the full cleaning regimen. A significant modification requiring cutting, welding, brazing or soldering will get the full regimen. A minor modification or a single new component with good access for cleaning will get a thorough manual cleaning and I trust that my foreshots and heads of whatever I run next will do the rest.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

BettyB
Novice
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:49 pm

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by BettyB » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:12 am

Tabucowboy wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:47 am
Burn Sacrificial Runs that is what I do. it is great fuel for campfires, BBQ to get them started pour it on a log an light it up.
This is a great idea! Would you just store it in glass hars and mark it fuel?

Tabucowboy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:11 am
Location: By God WV

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Tabucowboy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:04 am

I just store mine in an old 10 gal green gas can. I am not going to drink it so I don't worry about it sitting in metal fuel can.
CM Reflux Still -- Copper mesh 16" ,column 31" tall, dia. 2",temp at boiler,top of column, power - PAC w5500w Element
Pot Still -- Copper mesh 16",column, 23" tall dia. 2", temp at boiler, power - PAC w5500w Element

User avatar
SuburbanShiner
Novice
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:49 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by SuburbanShiner » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:52 am

Tabucowboy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:04 am
I just store mine in an old 10 gal green gas can. I am not going to drink it so I don't worry about it sitting in metal fuel can.
Same. I store mine in a wal-mart fuel container (it's made of some type of plastic) and pour what I need to start the grill.

User avatar
Durhommer
Distiller
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:23 am

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Durhommer » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:03 am

I use my fores to start the grill
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

User avatar
zed255
Rumrunner
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by zed255 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am

I save mine in an old plastic jug that formerly held a cleaning product and clearly marked it as forshots. My missus will occasionally steal some to remove soap scum in the bathroom; she says it does a brilliant job but stinks. Otherwise I just use it where a relatively mild solvent is in order.

Issue for me is production outruns usage. I'm sitting on about 6l of fores with ever more coming.

A thought - anyone ever dilute and use the forshots as the fodder for a sacrificial run? We just need a hot solvent (and I'm sure there's alcohol in the fores) to run through the still and forshots seem like a reasonable candidate.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

User avatar
Expat
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Expat » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:15 am

zed255 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am
A thought - anyone ever dilute and use the forshots as the fodder for a sacrificial run? We just need a hot solvent (and I'm sure there's alcohol in the fores) to run through the still and forshots seem like a reasonable candidate.
I did just this on my Bok upgrade project.

I find that it does a good job killing weeds between concrete pavers; pour liberally, ignite and let it burn down.
_____________________
EXPAT

Current boiler and pot head viewtopic.php?f=50&t=71855
Cross flow condenser viewtopic.php?f=87&t=47632
Modular 3" Boka - pics tbd
___________________

User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 933
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Sacrificial Run

Post by Deplorable » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:33 am

zed255 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am

A thought - anyone ever dilute and use the forshots as the fodder for a sacrificial run? We just need a hot solvent (and I'm sure there's alcohol in the fores) to run through the still and forshots seem like a reasonable candidate.
I did just that to clean my new build, and used up all my old fores.
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

Post Reply