Element control concerns

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Boozebud
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Element control concerns

Post by Boozebud »

Hello there,

I finally pulled everything together for my 30L 3 inch plated reflux still. I got a vinegar wash running for about 45 mins with steam and the whole shebang.

However around this time my power regulator (Kegland Power Station 4000W) flipped its 15Amp safety overload and turned off. After inspecting the station and the wiring I found the station hot to the touch and the wiring (standard 10Amp wiring and outlet) hot to the touch as well. I'm running a single 2400W tri-clamp element and had the power station set at 80% for this time.

This got me a bit spooked as I didn't want to run the risk of an electrical fire and have since stopped running the still. I'd appreciate your advice and assistance as I'd like to get back up and running but not until I figure this out.
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NZChris
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by NZChris »

What is the resistance of the element?
CopperFiend
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by CopperFiend »

I have had many SCR voltage regulators blow on me. I think it is almost always due to the fact that they get too hot. Get one which is rated to much higher than the element you're running and it will be fine. For my 2.5Kw elements, I use a 10Kw regulator and it's fine. Otherwise, find a way of reliably cooling it (fans, heat exchanger etc)

Copper.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by still_stirrin »

+1 to Chris’s question.

If your resistance is less than 24 ohms, the current would be greater than 10 amps. And, if the rated wattage of the element was greater than 2.4kW, the resistance will be less, given the 240VAC line voltage rating. Less resistance means more current flow for the same rail voltage and that would mean greater power consumption.

Just because your regulator says it is 4.0kW capable doesn’t mean you can safely run it that hot.

Is this your controller?
KegLand Power Controller
KegLand Power Controller
Does your element look like this?
2500W 240C T/C element
2500W 240C T/C element
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Boozebud
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by Boozebud »

still_stirrin wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:51 pm +1 to Chris’s question.

If your resistance is less than 24 ohms, the current would be greater than 10 amps. And, if the rated wattage of the element was greater than 2.4kW, the resistance will be less, given the 240VAC line voltage rating. Less resistance means more current flow for the same rail voltage and that would mean greater power consumption.

Just because your regulator says it is 4.0kW capable doesn’t mean you can safely run it that hot.

Is this your controller?0E2F7B98-7C64-4E58-A447-F54662BD40E6.jpeg

Does your element look like this?8BC54408-060C-45EB-8C55-3ACDC4C8A457.jpeg
I am unsure what the resistance is on the element, it came as a package with the still and when I checked back to the website I bought off they offer no extra info other then it being a 2400W tri-clamp element.

That is the controller I have and below are some photos of the element, while checking it over I saw some etching suggesting it's actually 3000W and 220V which doesn't really align with the ad.
ad.png
element 1.jpg
Element 2.jpg
.

I was looking at the Still dragon SSR control kit as a possible alternative but if this element needs to be wired at higher then 10amp I might not be able to run it where I am either way.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by still_stirrin »

So, for a 3000W 220VAC element, the calculated resistance is:
R = (V x V) / P = (220 x 220) / 3000 = 16.13 ohms.
And remember, I said if the resistance is less than 24 ohms, it can be passing too much current, thereby causing the breaker/overload switch to trip.

If you’re trying to power that element on 240VAC (which is your rail voltage, right?), then your current flow is:
I = sqrt (P / R) = sqrt (3000 / 16.13) = 13.64 amps.
While less than your breaker (15 amps), it is greater than the current rating of your power controller (10 amps).

You need to learn a bit about electrical circuitry. If not, you’ve got “blue smoke” in your future.

I suggest measuring the resistance in your element with an ohmmeter. It matters!
ss
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Boozebud
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by Boozebud »

still_stirrin wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:31 pm So, for a 3000W 220VAC element, the calculated resistance is:
R = (V x V) / P = (220 x 220) / 3000 = 16.13 ohms.
And remember, I said if the resistance is less than 24 ohms, it can be passing too much current, thereby causing the breaker/overload switch to trip.

If you’re trying to power that element on 240VAC (which is your rail voltage, right?), then your current flow is:
I = sqrt (P / R) = sqrt (3000 / 16.13) = 13.64 amps.
While less than your breaker (15 amps), it is greater than the current rating of your power controller (10 amps).

You need to learn a bit about electrical circuitry. If not, you’ve got “blue smoke” in your future.

I suggest measuring the resistance in your element with an ohmmeter. It matters!
ss
Thanks for that Still, I'll look around for an ohmmeter and do some research.
Bugs me that the site that sold me this still recommended this power controller, back to the drawing board for a bit.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by still_stirrin »

Here’s a chart that will help you with the math. It is various permutations of “Ohm’s Law”.
Ohm’s Law
Ohm’s Law
15DADBBD-05C7-43FE-ABA6-E4B189CE2895.gif (7.8 KiB) Viewed 1454 times
And electric heater elements are “resistive” loads. So, their measurement should be relatively straight forward.
ss
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NZChris
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Re: Element control concerns

Post by NZChris »

Get a multimeter. They are very cheap now compared to when I bought my first.

Here is a handy calculator,
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electr ... lator.html
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