Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

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distiller_dresden
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malt whisky discussions

Post by distiller_dresden »

Got a bottle; just a sip, not day drinking! I'll have a proper glass tonight. It's like single malt scotch...candy. It's delicious, though, it is. ALTHOUGH! -- I could be wrong, but I do believe I'm picking up some peat or smoked peat in there in the finish, that lingered on my palate/tongue after I swallowed. I know more tonight when I properly get into it with two or three fingers and a few drops of water.

It is crazy that they put it in three different barrels. I'm okay with the purchase, though, because I was planning on buying a Glenmorangie port wood aged, I'll just put that on my birthday wish list. That's right around the corner on the day of independence. I've had it once before, and my god, single malt scotch was MADE to age in sherry or port barrels.

Obviously I have to have a lot more of this to form an opinion, but initial sip tells me it would be occasionally or special occasion, because the sweetness couldn't sustain me for a sober-to-drunk drinking session, as could Glenlivet. I think I might tire of it; not sure. As of right now, though, I can't freaking WAIT to get into three fingers of this stuff tonight, because that sip was delicious.

I was looking at their offerings and they have one that's really interesting, Auchentoshan 2003 15 Year Old Old Malt Cask: "A massively fruity whisky from Auchentoshan: banana and apple pie with a net of spun sugar. Distilled in January 2003 and bottled in February 2018 after 15 years maturing in a hogshead."
Then tasting notes are -
Nose: Banana, yellow apple and a slightly herbal note.
Palate: Very fruity – banana, orange with an oak tang.
Finish: Medium-length with barley sugar.
aucomc2003.jpg
This looks gorgeous and like it was oaked in a no or light toast barrel with no char, interesting! Plus, a single malt scotch with banana notes?? Damn, it's going on my birthday list too! I don't even know what barley sugar is -- is that like DME?

And der wo - - your palate for spirits is obviously much refined! I hope to be as experienced and learned one day. I just don't have experience with as broad a range of spirits. I have since staring distilling, aging spirits on wood, however developed a greater appreciation for that oak or wood flavor where I used to not like it. Now I appreciate it and actually do like it, so perhaps being a maker is part of learning to develop such a refined liquor palate...
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by der wo »

distiller_dresden,

This is just the normal color you get without added coloring, when you age Whisky in a refill cask.
Most Malt Whiskies are colored. Many of the independent bottlers don't color. This is an independent bottling. The tasting notes are marketing, you will find such notes also on the cheapest Johnnie Walker bottle. But anyway, you will perhaps find those flavors, when you search for them, it's not like they write randomly those notes on the bottle. I think this is a great Whisky, without knowing it. But probably much more expensive than the three wood.

If you want to refine your palate, you have to buy samples. You simply have to drink many different Whiskies and try to find out details about how they are made. So after a while you have opinions, why it tastes like this. I normally buy samples 40 or 50ml from ebay. Up to now I have drank 60-70 different Malt Whiskies. If I would buy whole bottles always, I would be broke or alcoholic or both. And the samples should be mainly from standard bottlings, because you will find much more information about them. This Auchenthosan is a single barrel Whisky, the opposite of a standard bottling.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by distiller_dresden »

...You can buy SAMPLES of expensive whiskies/scotches on Ebay?? Holy SHITE! I had NO idea this was a thing. I'm going EBAY shopping this weekend! I have $50 left on a visa gift card that I've relegated to my 'hobby' and had bought my pear/lychee/papya juices for my next brandy wash (about $75 for 5 gallons I spent...call me fool, but I want to make a light, tropical brandy and see what it turns out like!). Because of that upcoming brandy though, and the apple I did, the cost of it was a bit cheaper, but still with all the juice/cider and the 15 cans of concentrate I bought, these brandy washes are EXPENSIVE for me. So I'm steppin' away from brandy for a time now. Back to rums and bourbons/whiskies.

I think I'll make a true scotch; I have 7lbs of golden promise malted barley sitting around. I also have grain bill for 2 batches of HBB. Then enough molasses, 2 types, around for 3 more batches of rum. So I don't need to spend any more money on distillin' stuff for a while. Plus, me Da' helps since he's my partner, he's happy to take a break from helping for a while, on the spending supplies I mean.

Interesting on the color of that scotch; I am surprised that's natural for used barrels, it's just so light. I can't picture any used wood I have not still giving a dark color, I guess it would have to be a REALLY used up wood, those barrels must be like 7th or 8th generation.

Any tips for making a 'traditional' single malt scotch, the no peat/smoke sort of Glenlivet style? I know they use the golden promise malt in traditional scotch single malt, or that's what I've read...
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by butterpants »

distiller_dresden wrote:

butterpants - Auchentoshan Three Wood - Haven't heard of this, so I'm curious. Is it a single malt?

EDIT - looked up Auchentoshan, didn't see anything about smoke or peat, and it sounds delicious! I found some locally, it was a little tough, only at one store, and then only one of their locations, but I'm going to pick it up in a little bit here.
It's lowlands, so no smoke/peat. Yes on the single malt. It's much more flavorful than the entry level Scotches in the 12 year range that don't use peat/smoke.

I think it's a great gap bridger from Scotch to Bourbon.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by der wo »

I am not sure, if it's possible also in the USA to sell and buy samples private on ebay. There could be problems with legality. Perhaps you have to look for an internet-Whisky-club. Normally those sellers are Whiskymaniacs who wants to taste many different Whiskies, buy whole 0.7l-bottles and hundred small empty 4cl-bottles, taste the Whisky and sell the remaining Whisky on ebay. They earn a bit money, but the main goal for them is the same like what you want.

No, this Auchentoshan is aged second fill hogshead. Hogshead is a relative large barrel (225l instead of the 200l of the american standard barrel). Second fill means the second fill with Whisky, but all in all (including the very first Bourbon fill) the third fill. But this says nothing about how long those previous fills were. But trust me, it's a normal color for 15 years in a Bourbon cask.

Sorry, no tips on malted barley. I only could tell you something in Europe. Malt for Malt Whisky is always extreme light. Don't experiment with darker malts when you want a normal Malt Whisky. Many light beer base malts are usable. Pilsner, Pale Ale...
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by distiller_dresden »

masterofmalt.com - they have a dram club, you can get samples of whisky and scotch instead of the bottles, I'm looking into it now!

EDIT - nevermind; no shipping to the United States. G-Dit... They have Chivas Mizunara too, which I wanted to try, and my dad REALLY wanted to try, as Chivas Regal is his favorite. FUDGE!
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Auchentoshan Three Wood: I gotta say, I like this scotch, but I'm not putting away, pouring out, or giving up my Glenlivet. I think I favor the clean finish and pine, pear notes of Glenlivet still. Not to say I don't like Three Wood, it's good. It's still like I said earlier, scotch candy, it's got a lot of sweetness to it. But I do think there is peat or smoke, I think it's peat; there is a residual peaty flavor on the finish just after I swallow that lingers a bit in my mouth along with a sweet flavor that as the distiller's suggested does remind me of Lyle's Dark Treacle, and then they say 'chewy wood' but I think this is what is reminding me or giving me peat. It's not at all unpleasant, it just before it would normally be an unpleasant flavor. I've had scotches that were heavily peated that I really found distasteful for my palate. Maybe I need to have more of them... But my limited exposure I really didn't like peat. I haven't liked smoke either. I think it was Oban and Lagavullin at least two of the scotches I've had, are those peat and/or smoke scotches?

But completely discounting the cost ($68) of the Three Wood, I think this will be more a 'celebration scotch' for me than a 'craving some scotch' scotch, Glenlivet will continue to me my everyday scotch for now. I'm open minded though! If anyone can suggest similar sweet, no peat, no smoke, scotches... Maybe I should start a 'suggest a scotch' thread?
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Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

Starting a new topic here grown out of discussions that began in the "Suggestions for commercial rums?" threads, we got into discussions about malt whiskies so I thought those should get moved here...
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Re: Suggestions for commercial rums?

Post by distiller_dresden »

Going to Costco today can't wait to look for the rebranded/relabeled Hampden's!

Also, anybody looking for the malt whisky discussions, I thought they were off-topic in here so I've asked for them to be moved to a new topic, which is here:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=70967

We'll keep to rums here, and over there we'll talk about malt whiskies
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by fizzix »

Dresden, will you accept an 80% malt, 20% grain?
I've been thoroughly impressed with Bushmills Black Bush Irish for years.
Last edited by fizzix on Sat May 26, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

I don't know, probably? I'm completely unfamiliar; that's obviously a blended malt whisky, right? I would be open to trying it - this is a thread for talking about and suggesting ANY malt whiskies though so feel free to talk about them fizzix! Especially describing your experience with them, tasting notes. We're talking about our love of malt whiskies and sharing what we like about them, in hopes of not only getting others to get interested, but also enlightening them through our descriptions into trying these wonderful spirits.

There should be a post dump coming in soon as soon as mods move some posts over here from the 'commercial rums' thread, also...

Tell me of this Bushmills Black Bush Irish!
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by Swedish Pride »

the tyrconnell single malt wont let you down, what's that you say?
a single malt for 35 euros, damn right!
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by fizzix »

Received Black Bush as a gift and knowing the giver well, I figured it was some cheap swill.
And so it sat until one night when out of beer, I broke into the Black Bush and splashed it with soda.
Immediately I knew this was exceptional and realized I just ruined it with Coca-Cola.

This is a neat, silky drink. No alcohol flavor to ruin the experience. Makes a great cigar drink.
Such a mature, cultured whiskey taste and feel that you'd swear you just joined a higher social class.
And not fruity! Just malty smooth.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

Fizzix -- is there any peat/smoke to it? I'd ask, though nobody certainly needs to follow, that you note if there is any peat/smoke to your suggestions. I am an avert to peat/smoke so far in my experience. I've had, I believe it was Oban and Lagavullin, which were super heavy peat and/or smoke and I was very very turned off.

Swedish Pride - how about you - tasting notes for tyrconnell single malt, and any smoke or peat, or smoked peat?
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by fizzix »

No peat or smoke. You and I share the aversion.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by Pikey »

distiller_dresden wrote:Fizzix -- is there any peat/smoke to it? I'd ask, though nobody certainly needs to follow, that you note if there is any peat/smoke to your suggestions. I am an avert to peat/smoke so far in my experience. I've had, I believe it was Oban and Lagavullin, which were super heavy peat and/or smoke and I was very very turned off.
Glenmorangie (Original is fine) - No "Burnt plastic" in these.

https://www.glenmorangie.com/en-us/our-whiskies
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

I'll put it on my list to try; I've actually wanted to try an Irish whisky for some time, for a silly reason but whatever gets me into another kind of whisky, right?

Silly reason? I read, like, ALOT. I can burn through a book in literally one or two days. One of the series I've read is the Iron Druid, and he's a 2000 year old druid who is, obviously (or maybe not if you don't know your history) Irish and tied up with the Tuatha Dé Danann. He also loves Tullamore Dew; I have no idea what that is, beyond being an Irish whisky, but since the series I've been meaning to try that, and other Irish whiskies. I'll push this Bushmills Black Bush Irish to the top of my list with that recommendation!

Fizzix - I have had Glenmorangie sherry barrel, and port barrel, but never the standard. I will say I absolutely adored both of those, and the port barrel is actually top of my birthday list, coming on Independence Day, because I recall my one two fingers of it back in 2008 or 9, and it was a heady, glorious experience with that port barrel just a bit forward and carrying the light, piney notes of a wonderful scotch across my tongue. I can't wait to have it again for my birthday. I believe your recommendation is fully a wonderful one!

And I think you've nailed the actual flavor of peat and smoke, it's like burnt plastic, if milder. It's just freaking nasty and I don't know how anybody can enjoy that damn flavor mucking up a wonderful malt scotch or whisky.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by Swedish Pride »

Tullamore dew is a very nice irish blended whiskey, it was my go to when I started here.

Tyrconnell is like most irish whiskey unpeated, could not give you tasking notes, I'm shit at that stuff, but the few whiskey buffs I've turned on to it agree that it's a great whiskey for it's price.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by der wo »

My favorites elected from over 60 different Malts. Mostly under 50€:

Without peat:
Aultmore 12: Clean AND strong in flavor. Without tricks like Sherry or double maturing. Very light color (many second fill casks).

With peat:
Talisker 10: For me the classic medium peated Malt Whisky. The character of the peat is unreached IMO. But this is very subjective.

With Sherry:
Mortlach 15J (Gordon & Mc Phail): Mellow AND strong in flavor. A bit pricey for 15 years unfortunately.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

Have you had any port aged malts, der wo? Or have you or anyone else tried Glenmorangie's Nectar D'Or, or Milsean 2016, or Quinta Ruban (their port aged)? I'm very curious about the Milsean and Nectar, they seem like they would be very residually sweet in the finish; that's something I really like in a scotch because it seems to bring out so many other things to taste, and scotch/malts are like nectar of the gods already.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by HDNB »

OBAN
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

Keep posting here everybody; I had posts from the commercial rum thread about malts moved, they were supposed to come here... it looks like instead they were made into a new thread about malt whiskies. Just ignore that thread, since all the players are here commenting. I'll try to get it cleared up in the mean time. :/
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by der wo »

distiller_dresden wrote:Have you had any port aged malts, der wo? Or have you or anyone else tried Glenmorangie's Nectar D'Or, or Milsean 2016, or Quinta Ruban (their port aged)? I'm very curious about the Milsean and Nectar, they seem like they would be very residually sweet in the finish; that's something I really like in a scotch because it seems to bring out so many other things to taste, and scotch/malts are like nectar of the gods already.
A port cask aged Whisky tastes like port and a sherry one like sherry. There is no magic. It's really that simple. If you like port more than sherry (something like sweet Oloroso is typical for Whisky), try a Port Malt.
Glenmorangie is famous for a nice, mellow and easy Malt Whisky. They have extreme long risers at their stills, which provide much reflux. They make mostly double agings, what brings much sweetness. And perhaps it sounds interesting all the different casks. But as I said, IMO it doesn't have a magic, it's simply flavoring. Many say it's overoaked or oversherried. And they were heavily critizied for their marketing. I have tasted only the "Lasanta". Tasted a bit like Cognac, wine instead of Sherry. From the toasted flavors rather light toffee and nuts instead of roasted and brittle flavors. All in all I found it too sweet and too easy. I don't think I will try another Glenmorangie in near future.
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by Pikey »

der wo wrote:
distiller_dresden wrote:Have you had any port aged malts, der wo? Or have you or anyone else tried Glenmorangie's Nectar D'Or, or Milsean 2016, or Quinta Ruban (their port aged)? I'm very curious about the Milsean and Nectar, they seem like they would be very residually sweet in the finish; that's something I really like in a scotch because it seems to bring out so many other things to taste, and scotch/malts are like nectar of the gods already.
A port cask aged Whisky tastes like port and a sherry one like sherry. There is no magic. It's really that simple. If you like port more than sherry (something like sweet Oloroso is typical for Whisky), try a Port Malt.
Glenmorangie is famous for a nice, mellow and easy Malt Whisky. They have extreme long risers at their stills, which provide much reflux. They make mostly double agings, what brings much sweetness. And perhaps it sounds interesting all the different casks. But as I said, IMO it doesn't have a magic, it's simply flavoring. Many say it's overoaked or oversherried. And they were heavily critizied for their marketing. I have tasted only the "Lasanta". Tasted a bit like Cognac, wine instead of Sherry. From the toasted flavors rather light toffee and nuts instead of roasted and brittle flavors. All in all I found it too sweet and too easy. I don't think I will try another Glenmorangie in near future.
der wo is (as ever) correct in his description of Glenmorangie and the process - smooth and mild - easy drinking, easy "over-drinking" ! But it IS to my taste. I even have a recipe for a sugar-head malt extract, which gets very close to the original over a couple of months "Ageing and flavouring" - I set 200 litres down to ferment just last week. :D However I use fresh oak sticks toasted and charred, so I also add a few ml of cream sherry and a tiny speck of vanilla essence, plus a few other bits in my "Fake version" - I have never tried their "Sherry barrel or "port barrel" for taste, (distiller-dresden seems to have rather "Better birthdays" than I do 8) ) - but it would be easy enough to just add a little sherry or port to your maturing "whisky" - maybe even a few "Pine needles", if that is to your taste.

My still also has a tall column, with a little cooling at the head provided by my dimroth condenser which is close coupled, so I may accidentally have a still which mimics theirs to an extent.

One of the great things about this hobby, is that there are no "Regulations" for us to be bound by and I am "getting on a bit" certainly have no desire to die whilst waiting for "It to age properly" !
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by distiller_dresden »

I'd like to see that recipe Pikey!
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by Pikey »

distiller_dresden wrote:I'd like to see that recipe Pikey!
I've never published it on here - but I gave the basics here

viewtopic.php?t=65350#p7457998

As you will see I got quite a "kicking" from the "Purists" for daring to suggest adding "sugar" and whilst I gave the quantities of sherry and vanilla a few posts later, I just thought "bugger 'em - I'll just let 'em stay ignorant then !" - Partly because of this and partly because of the lack of interest in my "Bacardi(ish)" (which I did post a recipe for and is also quite close !).

If there is any interest, I may post the recipe and protocol when I get around to running this batch and look up my notes, but that will get you close.

What still are you running ? mine is a bit "wierd" and I do believe I get a bit of passive reflux - but the column is not packed and the abv of my "Heads, hearts, some tails" comes out at just about 60 abv on a single run - ideal for the oaking, so you may need to adjust taste ingredients, if you can't get that off a single run. (A thiumper might help here ? )
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

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I run all copper, a 5 gallon pot still with a 1 gallon thumper (32 oz charge prior to run) and 1.5 gallon flake stand which I have a 16 gallon tub of water that I run a small recirc motor to cycle water through my stand to cool the worm from the bottom and drains from the top into the big tub. I don't typically (ever so far) do more than one run for anything, and my runs start coming out around 185-180-175 proof depending on the proof of the wash. Here's my setup:
still.jpg
I've read that thread! Dear god the argument was much; of COURSE DME or LME adds flavor and doesn't "need" sugar to add alcohol, it is sugar, it is literally malted barley extract. It is the same as malting barley in a wash then drying out the wash, then rehydrating it. But you can add sugar, who freaking cares?

I recently did a variant on deathwish wheat germ, trying for 'pseudo SINGLE MALT', with 6lbs of DME, 4lbs of invert, and 1 lb Black Treacle; the wash was a nightmare to run because for the first time in 5 months since I started I had foamover/coughing (damnit I forget what it's called) coming though even though I have a thumper! It was coming through out my worm, coloring my distillate. I had a hell of a time, I had even put a stick of butter in my pot before starting the cook anticipating the foam issue. I know it was the DME. I think it would've been reduced in the wash a lot had I gotten some 'gluco amylase enzyme' which is supposed to be added around 80F and breaks down the remaining sugars that were in that malt, which is why it foamed so bad. There were definitely some in there because the wash had that malt flavor, but it wasn't sweet, so there was something the yeast couldn't get at. Although I wonder if that added to the flavor of the distillate? It's still aging on wood, it's only a weed old and hasn't taken much color yet so I'm not sure what's up with it, not tried it... I'm due to, dip a finger, I think!

Anyhow, I need to try your recipe. Maybe LME will be less foaming, plus 3lbs is less than the 6 DME I used. I know I don't add sugar to my brandy washes, because I want all the fruit flavor, but that's a completely different and separate issue from what you were doing and talking about. They were debating the naming of it because of what was in it, I think it's a lot of lost energy. But you seriously get enough flavor with 3lbs LME in 25 gallons of water??? That must be seriously concentrated LME, the LME I can get over here is not that serious, 3 lbs would be good for maybe 2-3 gallons of water, 6 at the absolute tops -- which you did say 25 litres so that's close enough. I can't believe you get flavor out of that at a can in 25 gallons; your still setup is much different from my pot still set up and how yours works I'm thinking.


I know this is a loaded question, and I know the answer, somewhat - the shape of the cap of the pot affects the flavors of/in the distillate. I wonder if I could have someone make me a differently shaped cap to improve the taste/make richer/stronger of all my distillates. Anybody know off hand if the shape of my cap and my setup looks like it is predisposed to making good flavors? I only know what my flavors are by what my flavors are, if that makes sense (this is a bit off topic so I'll be this brief). I don't know what I don't know; perhaps my flavors could be stronger?
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Pikey
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Re: Suggestions for commercial Malt Whiskies

Post by Pikey »

Yes I remember your still picture now :thumbup: - Hell if you're starting at 85-90% abv - that piece of kit is going to be plenty strong enough. I think my LME is probably much the same strength as everyone else's - as I said it is enough for a "session beer" flavour at around 20-25 litres, but logic says at those abvs, you might want to start with maybe 50% more LME than I use - bear in mind it is not a "high flavour" whisky we're looking at.

If you think about UJSSSM, cold fermented sugar head on a few pounds of corn, multiple iterations - you never hear complaints about lack of flavour from that one.

Anyhow do let us know how you get on 8)
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