Safety test

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
rickyaifd
Novice
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:20 pm

Safety test

Post by rickyaifd » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:47 am

After the election oh, I will be speaking to one of my state senators in West Virginia to talk about the possibility of Home distilling and legalization. One of the things that I thought about as a good opening or Icebreaker and I wanted your opinions on it is the creation of a 100 question safety and procedure test for home hobby distillers. I wanted to approach him with the idea of having a type of license for a home distiller and by passing a safety test, making that one of the qualifications to earn a home distilling license. What are some of the questions that you think would apply to our Hobby as a safety test?

User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Safety test

Post by Deplorable » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:34 am

MHO here but one should not need a government issued license to exercise freedom.
Having said that, legalized home distillation would do for liquor what home brewing did for the craft beer industry. Its a net jobs creator. One of the only good things that came out of the Carter administration was legalized home brewing.

Edit to add that the liquor industry lobbies spend an average of $1M a month in lobbying congress for their benefit. How much is going to YOUR representatives?
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

stillanoob
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:15 am

Re: Safety test

Post by stillanoob » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:24 am

While I agree that a license to distill is a little much, if it would help legalize the hobby I would be fine with it. I hold quite a few licenses for various things and one more wouldn't be the end of the world. However, as noted there is a lot of money behind keeping things the way they are.

rickyaifd
Novice
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:20 pm

Re: Safety test

Post by rickyaifd » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:10 pm

I don't know that using the license approach is the best way, but I couldn't think of another approach. I would welcome suggestions.

User avatar
Twisted Brick
Distiller
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Craigh Na Dun

Re: Safety test

Post by Twisted Brick » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:42 pm

From the (absence of) sheer number of unfortunate accidents of homedistillers in the news, I don't think safety is the roadblock to legalization. I know that if distilling did become legalized, I would continue to purchase fewer and fewer bottles of commercial booze like I do now as a result of what I have learned here.

But should legalization come to pass with a flood of new stillers, and unfortunate homedistilling accidents (or worse) ensue, with enough media attention, the commercial guys/politicians would be equipped to get the law changed back, and the presence of a license would lead law enforcement straight to the still.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”

- W.C. Fields

My EZ Solder Shotgun

User avatar
Yonder
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:53 pm
Location: Best State in the Union!

Re: Safety test

Post by Yonder » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:45 pm

Just FYI, since the legalization of craft brewing that industry produces over 74 billion annually and employs more than 150,000 people. Its good for the economy and good for people. Sure the craft distilling industry would do similarly well.
Double, Double, toil and trouble. Fire Burn and pot still bubble.

User avatar
Durhommer
Distiller
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:23 am

Re: Safety test

Post by Durhommer » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:30 am

We can want in one hand and shit in the other and see which gets full faster. As long as big likker is greasing the right palms I dont see hobby distillation becoming legal anymore than cocaine becoming legal people still make likker tho
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

rickyaifd
Novice
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:20 pm

Re: Safety test

Post by rickyaifd » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:36 pm

Well, I did find out one thing that could have an effect on talking to my state senator about sponsoring legalization. There are several distilling groups on Facebook and the one that I belong to, some of the (lack of a better word) most 'wildest' notions that you have ever read. I would like some more input on how to approach my senator after the election

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2295
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Safety test

Post by kiwi Bruce » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:32 pm

Before you have the eye to eye you'll need to check with your State legislation. If West Virginia is anything like PA and a LOT of other States, hobby/home distillation is already legal ===at the State level--- and that's the kicker...the BATFE regulations are Federal, and although not "law" as in :- written and voted-on by the House and Senate, under the DOJ's interpretation Fed-trumps-State They win...we lose...end of story.
Getting hung up all day on smiles

User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Safety test

Post by Deplorable » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:35 pm

The BATFE should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

User avatar
NineInchNails
Trainee
Posts: 879
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:12 am

Re: Safety test

Post by NineInchNails » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:38 am

As Ben Shapiro likes to say, "government sucks at everything" so get them out of the way and the competitive market of private industry will increase the quality and prices will drop ... unlike government regulation. Government regulation increases prices as quality goes down.

It is my understanding that any license you obtain will leave you open to surprise government inspections which inevitably leads to fines & violations. It's the nature of that beast.

You can ask just about anyone how many times the ATF has knocked on their door and the vast majority will say, "never". Considering that, they will likely never. I would never ask for permission or enter any system that exists to keep you under their thumb. I see no purpose, only risk.

User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Safety test

Post by Deplorable » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:59 pm

NiN, you're exactly right. Anyone who dabbles in NFA "Stamp Collecting" knows this all to well.
I dont need anymore government in my life.
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

zapata
Distiller
Posts: 1441
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Safety test

Post by zapata » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:44 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:32 pm
Before you have the eye to eye you'll need to check with your State legislation. If West Virginia is anything like PA and a LOT of other States, hobby/home distillation is already legal ===at the State level--- and that's the kicker...the BATFE regulations are Federal, and although not "law" as in :- written and voted-on by the House and Senate, under the DOJ's interpretation Fed-trumps-State They win...we lose...end of story.
Think you're mistaken here. To my knowledge Ohio is one of if not the only state where it is legal at the state level. PA even specifically has a law encouraging people to snitch, check your state law, title 40
The efficient administration of the Liquor Code requires the suppression of the unlawful manufacture of liquor, and to that end the Board may, in its discretion, pay for information leading to the location and seizure of illicit stills and the arrest and conviction of persons engaged in the operation of the stills.
That said, I think the idea of a safety test and license is absurd. Not just because it hurts mah freedumbs. But it would A) be a massive PITA and cost for the state to administer and B) Puts the burden of liability on them to determine who is safe or not. The whole point of legalization would be in response to the fact that it is already overwhelmingly safe. We don't need the state to sort out the safe people from the unsafe ones because even the insanely unsafe ones don't often blow up.

I don't have a license to use a gasoline can to fill up a lawnmower or all sorts of other potentially dangerous things. Suggesting that the government make a license to use a gas can would be a non-starter. Don't overcomplicate it. People do it safely anyway and should be free to do so, plus jobs and economy. It's as plain and simple american values as you can get.

The Baker
Master Distiller
Posts: 3102
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Safety test

Post by The Baker » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:43 am

If the State legislation is anything like ours, it is over ridden by the Federal.

End of story.

Geoff
The Baker

Tabucowboy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:11 am
Location: By God WV

Re: Safety test

Post by Tabucowboy » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:33 am

States that theoretically allow moonshining are Missouri, Alaska, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Rhode Island.

But federal law makes it illegal.

But if you notice how the marijuana laws are changing in certain states, If states start to treat distilling the same as Marijuana that would improve distilling hobby.

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2295
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Safety test

Post by kiwi Bruce » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:27 am

Tabucowboy wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:33 am
States that theoretically allow moonshining are Missouri, Alaska, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Rhode Island.

But federal law makes it illegal.

But if you notice how the marijuana laws are changing in certain states, If states start to treat distilling the same as Marijuana that would improve distilling hobby.
PA is on that list...I'm just too lazy right now to fart-around and look it up...
Governor Wolfe is trying to get recreational pot legalized in PA, to pay for the tax deficit created by covid 19...and here's the problem for us, he estimates that the pot revenue will bring 9.5 billion into the PA treasury, what could legalized distilling bring in ?
Getting hung up all day on smiles

User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Safety test

Post by Deplorable » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:58 am

kiwi Bruce wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:27 am
Tabucowboy wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:33 am
States that theoretically allow moonshining are Missouri, Alaska, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Rhode Island.

But federal law makes it illegal.

But if you notice how the marijuana laws are changing in certain states, If states start to treat distilling the same as Marijuana that would improve distilling hobby.
PA is on that list...I'm just too lazy right now to fart-around and look it up...
Governor Wolfe is trying to get recreational pot legalized in PA, to pay for the tax deficit created by covid 19...and here's the problem for us, he estimates that the pot revenue will bring 9.5 billion into the PA treasury, what could legalized distilling bring in ?
At a hobby level, I'm guessing not much. At least in my state where food items aren't taxed. Homebrewers only pay sales tax on the hops. Grains and yeasts are not taxed. So unless the equipment is purchased in state and taxed, or the state taxes online purchases there isn't much meat on the bone for the state.
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
Posts: 2295
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Safety test

Post by kiwi Bruce » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:11 am

Deplorable wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:35 pm
The BATFE should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
"Big Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives"...all this and a bag of crisps !
Getting hung up all day on smiles

Post Reply