The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
ScottishBoy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:53 am
Location: Just underneath this group of pixels...;)

The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by ScottishBoy »

Someone joked about me writing a manifesto for us as a means to identify who and what we are. After several bad drafts I arrived at this.
Okay...remember this is very tentative, but I am hoping I caught the right balance to position us more as careful hobbyists rather than revolutionaries who want to back out of whiskey taxes.
Proposed for your consideration:

This is the Manifesto for an as yet unnamed organization whose sole purpose is the hobby level crafting of distilled alcohols and specialty cordials.

We are…
A hobbyist group devoted to preserving what we see as a dying artform. We are unsatisfied with the quality of spirits that are sold to us. The use of questionable materials and mass production have eroded the crafting of alcohol and we believe we can do better. We do this by making very small batches and exercising tight control over them, much in the same way that hobbyist beer brewers and wine makers do.

We are…
Dedicated to preserving the tradition of home produced alcohol and preserving the artform that accompanies it. Many of our members have ties to relatives or family friends who have practiced this artform since before regulation. We see the artform as dying in the shadow of large companies that do not take the time or care to produce alcohol that their ancestors would be proud of.

We are…
Quality oriented. We believe that the way to make a quality creation is to keep the process small and tightly controlled, even if it costs more than regulated alcohol, as it always does. We are proud of our creations and consider them to be better than market grade alcohol.

We are…
Strictly non-profit. Our members are not pursueing this hobby out of any other desire than to produce high quality alcoholic creations. We prohibit our members from selling their creations in any way shape or form unless they are properly liscensed and sanctioned by their repective governments.

We are…
Saftey conscious. We are strong believers in the safety of anyone involved in this hobby. We insist on quality standards and will remove anyone who practices unsafe or careless procedures.

We are…
Law abiding citizens. We believe that the prohibition on producing high proof alcohol for hobby use is wrong. We believe that since we are producing for personal use and are not distributing or selling, that these prohibitions have been placed on us unfairly. We understand that the majority of rules surrounding the prohibition of home production revolve around taxation. We feel that we have been taxed by buying the base products and that further taxation is unwarranted provided we do not seek to profit from our hobby. If a person does make the jump to profit based production, they must do so in full compliance of business and local law. We feel that we should be treated in the same way as hobbyist brewers of beer and wine. We feel that our hobby should be exempt from legal persecution and would gladly pay small liscense fees to practice our craft in peace. We do not condone illegal behavior of any kind. We are seeking to isolate our hobby from the association of crime and we are pursueing this in a legal and peaceful way.

We are…
visonaries. We see a future where hobby level distillation of alcohol is treated the same way that beer and wine production is today. We are only seeking fair treatment under the law for a restriction that we feel has been placed upon us in error. We are looking forward to the day when that error is corrected.
ScottishBoy
HD Survival in a Nutshell...
Read.Search.Listen.Ask for feedback, you WILL get it. Plastic is always "questionable". Dont hurry. Be Careful. Dont Sell,Tell, or Yell. If you wouldnt serve it to your friends, then it isnt worth keeping.
flip
Swill Maker
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:14 am
Location: South Africa

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by flip »

I like that manifesto , agree fullhearted.
User avatar
Husker
retired
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:04 pm

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by Husker »

With the exception of this partial line:
and would gladly pay small liscense fees to practice our craft in peace.
I like this a lot. The title might better be "Home Distillers Manifesto", since there are many other sites that talk of home distillation, but do NOT try to police membership, or that are very lax about people using unproven safe components.

NOTE, about the taxation. Distillation DOES NOT in any way create alcohol. In converse it is about impossible to not LOSE alcohol (if even just a tiny amount), in the process of distillation. You make alcohol by FERMENTATION. That is FULLY legal, and has no onerous taxation for personal use. Why should we bend over backwards for paying taxes for running a process. Does it cost more to age wine, to make it better, than it does to ferment filter and drink it the next day? No. Does it cost more to make a 'dry' beer, then use pressurized CO2 to carbonate it? No. These are both instances of post processing after the fermentation process has completed. Distillation should be NO different.

H.
Hillbilly Rebel: Unless you are one of the people on this site who are legalling distilling, keep a low profile, don't tell, don't sell.
Fester
Swill Maker
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:27 am

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by Fester »

That was a beautiful read, Scotty. I agree with everything that you and Husker wrote.

My only concern is to protect the uninformed from themselves. If home distillation became legal tomorrow there would be a rush of people doing all the wrong things. Some would surly get hurt. To that end, I propose that a pamphlet be produced that clearly spells out the simple and safe Do's and the Don’ts. By reading the pamphlet and agreeing with it's principles the last page could removed, signed and sent to whatever agency. If they demanded a small processing fee, fine.
Distilling is no more complicated or dangerous than using a pressure cooker to cook a pound of beans. Neither distilling nor pressure-cooking can be made completely idiot proof. My view is that most people are not idiots. They just need a few good guidelines to follow.

All too often we see dangerous materials being used in stills or high proof alcohol stored in plastic milk jugs.
The final responsibility will of course rest in the hands of the individual distiller about the safety of running a still, materials used or storing the product but I think a few common sense guidelines should be agreed to before the masses are allowed to jump in.

I'm not advocating regulation. I am searching for a way that helps others to follow the proven concepts of this fine site.

Perhaps something simple like The 10 Commandments of Distilling.
1. Never leave a running still unattended.
2. Only use copper or stainless steel in the vapor path. No lead, rubber or plastic.
3. Clearly label all containers and keep them out of reach of children.
4.

Well, that's all I've got for now. I'm sure others will chime in.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by rad14701 »

I am also in agreement with ScottishBoy and Husker...

I see no need for licensing...

More folks blow themselves up by smoking while on pure oxygen every day than those who are injured by home distillation in an entire year... Decriminalizing home distillation won't change injury figures by any more than a very marginal amount... Having a smoke detector shutoff as part of an oxygen system would save lives...
blind drunk
retired
Posts: 4848
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:59 am

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by blind drunk »

Nice work Scotty. Here's my 2 bits.
The use of questionable materials
Although this could be true in some cases, it might be tactically sketchy to include it; wouldn't won't to poke a stick in the eye of the corporate giant. At least not right away :mrgreen:
We prohibit our members from selling their creations in any way shape or form unless they are properly liscensed and sanctioned by their repective governments.
Again, the board could prohibit members from selling (in spirit only), but because we are a disparate group from dozens of countries, it's completely unenforceable. Even within the geographical confines of the USA, it's an unenforceable prohibition. It would be a promise nobody could keep. Again, for tactical reasons, it might best to leave it out.

Cheers, bd.
I do all my own stunts
WalkingWolf
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 1850
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: LA

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by WalkingWolf »

Good work ScottishBoy
Fastill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: Where we drink more beer than you!

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by Fastill »

Where do I send my Union dues??? :lol:
Very well written, could be lots to add and ammend but a damn good start!
A.D.D. and HD don't go together. This hobby takes time and dedication to learn and do it right and safe.
Fill the pool before you jump in head first!
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by LWTCS »

Husker wrote: Distillation DOES NOT in any way create alcohol
Husker wrote:You make alcohol by FERMENTATION
Simple enough concept. Don't know why I never really thought about it that way.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
rednose
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by rednose »

There is an ongoing discussion with interesting arguments on this topic in ADI, maybe some of you wanna read:
http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1009&st=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Licensed Micro distillery "Bonanza"; fighting the local market
ScottishBoy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:53 am
Location: Just underneath this group of pixels...;)

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by ScottishBoy »

Keep the feedback coming.
Some of this will need to be adjusted, other parts will most likely be re-worked. It was a first draft, after all.

Later on, when I have a bit more time, I will re-read all these comments.

I will rework some of the language, but the technical talk will be saved for our lobbyists...As much as I hate the idea of lobbying, it may need to be done.

The pamphlet is an excellent idea. I have a few ideas for it already.
ScottishBoy
HD Survival in a Nutshell...
Read.Search.Listen.Ask for feedback, you WILL get it. Plastic is always "questionable". Dont hurry. Be Careful. Dont Sell,Tell, or Yell. If you wouldnt serve it to your friends, then it isnt worth keeping.
Samohon
retired
Posts: 3432
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:22 am
Location: Somewhere in the UK...

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by Samohon »

+1 SB, Great read...
♦♦ Samohon ♦♦

Beginners should visit The New Distillers Reading Lounge and the Safety and Related Issues among others...
gholl3214
Novice
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:03 pm

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by gholl3214 »

Graet draft. With a little ageing it'll be real smooth
hackware
Swill Maker
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:06 pm
Location: mississippi

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by hackware »

I am a newbie even to the thought of home distilling, but I would NOT be willing to pay taxes OR license fees, or to document my personal hobby actions, above and beyond what beer and wine makers have to do.

Any home distillers group, will always be a volunteer group, no matter what you write on paper anyway, so trying to enforce code of conduct is not possible.

The manifesto is a fantastic idea, as a single document to gather a set of rules members would agree to, to be a member of said group.

my 2cents...

william...
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by LWTCS »

Good points Will.
Recon SB was thinking out loud more than anything
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by rad14701 »

I have a saying that I use often...

"I don't need anyones nose up my ass!"
hackware
Swill Maker
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:06 pm
Location: mississippi

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by hackware »

LWTCS wrote:Good points Will.
Recon SB was thinking out loud more than anything
good thoughts... :-)

just see future flame wars over taxes/fees/documentation/oversight offers...

( when horse trading, don't give away the horse before you start )...

william...

ps. i like "home distiller" better than "hobby distiller", home is more personal...
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

lead, follow, or get out of the way... ankle biters will be kicked...

•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¯¯¨˜"william..."˜¨¯¯¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•
blind drunk
retired
Posts: 4848
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:59 am

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by blind drunk »

just see future flame wars over taxes/fees/documentation/oversight offers...
and the big boys will fight it tooth and nail ...
I do all my own stunts
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by rad14701 »

hackware wrote:i like "home distiller" better than "hobby distiller", home is more personal...
I like "home distiller" and "hobby scale"... The two, properly combined, leave little doubt that what we want to do is enjoy distillation of spirits on a very personal level for our own enjoyment...
bentstick
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1444
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:41 pm
Location: Great Lake State

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by bentstick »

Here is a shot in the dark Rad Hobby scale home distillation
It is what you make it
rtalbigr
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2200
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:25 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by rtalbigr »

The manifesto is a great idea. I'm in agreement with Husker though on the fee thing. Fees mean registration/documentation/licensing, and I'm with Rad here "I don't need anyone's nose up my ass." I equate this with gun ownership issues, and I know there are many gun owners in this forum. I was talking about this with a buddy at work a couple a days ago. I got plenty of gun, but then do ya ever have enough? But I'll never buy another gun from a licensed dealer cuz I don't want my name on another list that the go'vt has. So, I'd definitely want to see the fee thing left out.

I think that being specific about "No Selling" is important. Sure we can't police that but we can still take the stand that we do not condone that activity and that our endeavors are private and personal, and certainly not for profit w/o licensing.
We see the artform as dying in the shadow of large companies that do not take the time or care to produce alcohol that their ancestors would be proud of.
I don't think it is necessary to include that statement as written. I think there are many distilleries that would argue that they take great care to produce a quality product especially with the great costs they have in aging products for many years. I can't remember but was it Buffalo Trace (?somethin' like that?) that's buying handpicked oak trees and making special barrels to see what gives the best agin'? And also with the advent of many small artisan distilleries, well...

You have a good concept here Scotty and I will be lookin' forward to your next draft!

Big R
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
ScottishBoy
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:53 am
Location: Just underneath this group of pixels...;)

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by ScottishBoy »

The problem with the thinking is that you need to be able to bend to each government just a little bit if you are going to get your foot in the door. The Gov will see this as way to still make a small revenue and allow the act itself. If they see people doing this, which they taxed the HELL out of before, they are going to see it as an opportunity for money being wasted.

Sad, but that's the way US Gov works now.
It's not working for us anymore. It's working on top of us.

Let me think more on this and get a little more clear on it.
ScottishBoy
HD Survival in a Nutshell...
Read.Search.Listen.Ask for feedback, you WILL get it. Plastic is always "questionable". Dont hurry. Be Careful. Dont Sell,Tell, or Yell. If you wouldnt serve it to your friends, then it isnt worth keeping.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by rad14701 »

Governments, democracies at least, are in place to carry out the will of the people... Granted, there are certain aspects of government where they may have to enact policies which may not be entirely favorable to the majority but they are supposed to do their best to not be overly oppressive... There comes a time when governments must weigh the will of the people against its oppressiveness and if they don't listen they end up with anarchy not at all unlike what we have been seeing globally in recent months... Now I'm not saying that we should collectively overthrow our governments just to get home distillation decriminalized... I'm merely saying that if we can prove that we are responsible and that they have nothing to gain by keeping oppressive laws on the books then that would be the best angle to approach from... And I think we are doing a fine job of that at the moment...

People are being injured and killed but far more theoretically mundane activities than home distillation... Heck, it doesn't seem as though a week goes by around here before yet another idiot blows up or burns themselves and their home by smoking while on pure oxygen... Cell phone calls and texting while driving are right up at the top of the list as well... And almost daily we have yet another tree jumping out in front of a drunk without a helmet on an ATV and killing them... And now we constantly have "bath salts" overdoses... The list goes on and on...
Beerlover88
Novice
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:03 pm

Re: The Hobbyist Distiller's Manifesto ( DRAFT)

Post by Beerlover88 »

+1 for not having to a get a permit. Just more needless government bureaucracy.

Funny story about hobby vs. home. I went to Germany once and was telling everyone that I was a Heimbrauer, literally home-brewer. Ended up getting some free beer at a festival, and I wondered what was going on. I finally found someone who told me that in German, Heimbrauer means "estate brewer" and the correct form in German is Hobbybrauer, hobby brewer. Funny language mistranslation!
Post Reply