Canadian moonshine laws

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Centar » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:04 pm

atarijedi, its been awhile, so how did the licence attempt pan out after all?

I read all that section and it also has no provision for the number of stills or if the still is a continious still (but with less than 23 L cap.)

If you intended to sell the product you would still need a distillers licence and abide by all those rules (which are near impossable) and put up a bond...
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby trigger985 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:32 pm

Yes I would be very interested as to how you made out as well.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby freshwaterjellyfish » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:39 pm

wtf??!! ive been distilling in my apartment for the last 6 months or so; under the pretense this was a legal hobby, provided i was not selling the shit... im going to call my local opp (from a pay phone) and figure out...this DID feel to good to be true...FAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:05 pm

LMAO - relax ... make for yourself and trusted friends, dont sell, don't "make me some of <this>", don't accept money/donations, etc, etc.

Not one conviction in CANADA (from sea to sea to sea) for moonshining ... but selling without a license is another story ...

I am not a lawyer though ... but I understand from the Excise Act that while possessing a still and making ferment and shine is illegal, there are no set penalties ... from my lay-man understanding. Now, if you sell, the Excise Act clearly defines the maximum penalties ...
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby CanadianBacon » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

I was researching this topic awhile ago and was under the impression it was ok as long as its not being sold OR you have a liquor license? And i belive a license is under 300 $. I could very well possibly be wrong, But i mean if you minding your own business and keeping quiet who would say anything and how would anyone find out??? Distilling hard alcohol is technically illegal in Canada tho. Call your local police to be sure since there the ones that will be responding to a call of you making moonshine outside lol.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:52 pm

my limited understanding of the Excise Act states owning a still, owning ferment, and making likker is illegal.

However, I do not understand how ferment is not just really shitty beer or wine ... which is legal to produce ...

But, again my limited understanding, is that a search of CanLii will not yield any results for moonshining, and the "theory" out there is that there has been no convictions for shining in Canada - only sale of untaxed likker.

Would be good to hear from a Canuck lawyer though ... one specializing on the Excise Act ...
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby CanadianBacon » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:21 am

My roommate who's family are currently in the RCMP (British Columbia) asked them if HE/WE made/distilled liqour at home it would be illegal, They both said no. I believe the level of enforcement changes from province to province and detachment from detachment. But if you do read the laws, distilling is illegal..... I suppose its a big grey area in Canada especially up in the great white north..

Get a family member to call a local detachment ask! Its the safest way.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby bellybuster » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:18 pm

this has been gone over a million times. No matter what any RCMP officer says, it is indeed illegal to distill in Canada via the excise act. It is also illegal to own. build or start to build any apparatus of distillation without licence. Just because they don't enforce it doesn't make it legal.
Excise Act
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-14/page-1.html#docCont
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:11 pm

Yes, while a "buddy" may say it is not legal, or a "friend" may say they won't prosecute, and there may never have been a conviction of distilling in Canada, the Excise Act is there, and can be used against you.

Like belly stated - it is all illegal ... then again, so is sodomy with more than 2 people in the room :shock: :shock: :oops: :oops: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby PG Brewer » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:58 am

My question to the group is? Is there a lobby group or individual lobbyist out there that may be trying to have the laws of the province or our country changed in regards to the home distilling (for personal consumption) of alcohol. I would like to support such a venture as I believe it is time to have some of the the laws changed. We are all aware of the fact that we can brew our own beer and /or wine for personal use but if we attempt to salvage the alcohol from a bad batch, we're not allowed. If there is someone out there making the attempt, they definitly have my support.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:30 am

there are none that I know of. I know commercial craft distilling is difficult to set up, and there is no push for home distilling that I know of. In ontario at least, the government not only sets the taxes for the provincial portion, but they OWN all the stores that sell it. I dont think they want to even consider it ...
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby freshwaterjellyfish » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:50 pm

i heard Seagram'[s, Canadian club so on and so forth push hard to keep it illegal. i think there is lobbyist on the other side of the fence also...this is info i got from a nice lady at a wine supply shop so .
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:29 pm

Of course they do.

With wine, it may cost you $10-$12 to buy, and a few bucks to make - so the spread is very little. Plus, you have many complexities in reasonable wines that are hard to duplicate. While this is useful, the spread on likker is way higher - I can make a basic rum for between $4 and $5 per litre (depending on feints use, cut strictness, etc, etc), where as in the LCBO I can buy it for around $32/L - way big of a difference, and simple likkers like rum are extremely easy to make.

I think this is the main issue with legalization - there is way too much coin at stake for governments and companies to simply overlook. If I can make rum for $4-5/L, what do you think it costs Baccardi's to make with crappy cuts and mass scale production?
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby freshwaterjellyfish » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:47 pm

...by the end of the year there will be booze in most convenience stores in Ontario. Maybe theyll loosen up sometime after.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby planethax » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:27 pm

freshwaterjellyfish wrote:...by the end of the year there will be booze in most convenience stores in Ontario. Maybe theyll loosen up sometime after.

Not sure where your getting that info.
Wynne and the Liberals have said no to this
However after great pressure they will be opening liquor kiosks in some grocery stores.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:36 am

"Wynne and the Liberals have said no to this"

I have no use for words that come from that party's mouths - they are a bunch of f'in crooks and if they get back in don't be surprised they pull a lot of "well, we changed our minds because we need money" - they have been doing that shit since they took power 3 terms ago ...
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby bellybuster » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:32 am

There is no drive for legalization here because no one really wants to go there. There is enough grey area in our present laws that we are left alone anyway. Sleeping dogs are usually best left sleeping.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Tap » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:34 pm

bellybuster wrote:There is no drive for legalization here because no one really wants to go there. There is enough grey area in our present laws that we are left alone anyway. Sleeping dogs are usually best left sleeping.


+1.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby CornMealKid » Mon May 26, 2014 10:38 am

Out on bail in Ontario. Saw three guys my size attacking two little guys one night while I was having a smoke in front of my apartment building, broke up the disturbance the first time just talking and trying to reason with the people. They were basically being swarmed by a bunch of drunken jerks who were out to beat anybody, just terrible gangsta wannabe types who get off on hurting people. Then they ran after them again, I came over again and the three guys beat the hell outta me this time for again trying to rationalize with them about the size difference, the fact that the two little guys were trying to leave and were not provoking anything whatsoever. While I was getting beaten, my gun fell out of a reusable grocery bag I was carrying and onto the ground, I grabbed it by the receiver quickly and pulled it in toward my chest, people started shouting "He's got a gun!" so I ran. Anyway, the police caught up to me running, the guys who beat me and the other two kids got away, then a few drunk witnesses gave statements that I pointed my gun at the guys who were attacking me, which I did NOT do.

They took my gun, threw me in jail, then broke into my apartment without a warrant. Seized (stole) my guns, ammo, as well as my young cannabis plants (which were to go into the ground this summer outdoors, they were in soil, electricity was paid, not stolen), but... they left my stills and aren't even proceeding with any charges stemming from them, despite a bunch of liquor aging on oak being in my apartment... Didn't seize any of it or care in the least, just asked me if it tastes any good and kind of chuckled about it... Asked if I was worried about going "blind" despite the fact that the only party to demand the production of poisoned alcohol is... of course, Government.

The media has it all wrong as usual, portrays me as some vigilante when I only carry for self-defense against other people with firearms. All in all, I was the only one to have a firearm pointed at me that night (by the "police"), I was the only one to be seriously assaulted, I didn't threaten anyone, didn't throw a punch, didn't shoot a gun, and absolutely did not point one neither. They didn't attempt to look for the suspects (whom they claim I pointed a gun at but can't produce them for a trial), the "Crown" is on a political witch hunt about one's Right (from GOD, not from Government) to carry a firearm. Before you tell me "this isn't the States" or whatever, know that I don't give a ****, no prison sentence will change my mind or make me believe I've done something wrong- I am the ONLY injured party here.

Long story short, they seem to not give a **** about distilling so long as they don't somehow insinuate that you'll be selling it, interrupting their criminal liquor monopoly. Take note Ontario distillers, personal distilling seems to be A-OK in a sort of grey area known as the Canadian Criminal Code. Best I can find is it is against the Excise Act (Ontario Alcohol and Gaming Commission) for the sole purpose of shorting their immoral revenue schemes. Let's be frank, ethanol is not something patented by the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, a mixture of yeast, water, sugar, and corn is not intellectual property of the so-called "Crown". They will not stop me from distilling unless there's an injured party, that is LAW, Natural LAW, Common LAW, call it what you want... It supersedes their corporate Acts, Statutes, and Legislative documents.

-CMK
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Mon May 26, 2014 1:18 pm

well, I understand your frustration and all - I hope it works out for you in the end some how.

However, Canadian distillers need to understand the laws - unjust or not in personal view, in order to protect themselves for prosecution (rightly or wrongly). Simply, the exise act prohibits owning a still (or part thereof) or having even wash/mash in your possession. However, it seems (and I am not stating this of fact) that nobody has ever been convicted of shining. They have been convicted of selling untaxed likker, but never possession of still or likker. Even the penalties for such is unclear - I can see fines/penalties for selling untaxed likker, but nothing for still possession or even possession of untaxed likker ... dunno ... looks like holes in the Act ...

But then again, remember, it is illegal, and there are tools the government can use to enforce them, even if you do not like them
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby CornMealKid » Tue May 27, 2014 5:53 am

There is only ONE LAW and no one, not even the revenue enforcement agents or useless Queen's Park crowd, are above it. Magna Carta established that, we are bound by Common Law: Do no harm or damage to another's body or property (unless in justified self defense). That's LAW. Everything else is corporate Acts, Statutes, Legislation, Regulation, by-laws (if they were real LAW they'd call it that).

Unless I contract with a child (which is against LAW), force someone to drink alcohol with threats, deception, or coercion, poison someone with bad alcohol, or damage property or hurt people while intoxicated, alcohol is outside the scope of Government. "Her Majesty the Queen" Elizabeth II is bound by Common Law and is currently VIOLATING that obligation to uphold it, be it willfully or by negligence.

I have the Right to contract with any consenting man or woman. The taxes have been paid, I bought the parts for my stills, paid tax, buy my ingredients. The Acts are purposely vague and grey in nature, so as to ensnare anyone they claim is obligated to abide by them. Generally, in the current social climate, there is no appetite for purchasing alcohol from anywhere but the LCBO... Most people (the holier-than-thou "trendy" Toronto types) actually look down upon shine as "for rednecks" or something... When it comes to the Toronto "Indie" scene, they do not appreciate the true Independent folks of this Nation. So they go out and rack up Daddy's credit card drinking their "legal" Parliament liquor, behaving in a generally Unlawful fashion (starting fights, trespassing, damaging property, etc) which is unsurprising given that their drinks are acquired through an Unlawful monopoly. The current excuse for a government has little time to prosecute shiners when they can waste our tax-dollars prosecuting those pesky gun owners and such.

Remember, what is "illegal" is not necessarily Unlawful. We have a group of usurpers at work here, perverting LAW, attempting to convince us that legal is LAW. But it is not LAW. It was "legal" for the Government to steal First Nations children from their parents, destroy their languages and cultures, beat and rape them in residential schools. All of that was Unlawful, despite being sanctioned "legal". The individuals who oversaw that and other violations of LAW will be judged and punished, not in the corporate courts of London (which do not actually recognize LAW or GOD's supremacy). LAW comes from GOD, who created all men equal. How then can one man dictate arbitrary rules over another if we are equal under GOD? They can't, plain and simple. I'm not gonna roll over and stick my head in the sand. We have a Right to still, any attempts to disrupt our runs are a violation of our GOD-Given Rights, pure and simple.

-CMK
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby rad14701 » Tue May 27, 2014 11:20 am

<off-topic>

CornMealKid, don't take this the wrong way but I think you need to talk to someone about the incident that happened... Seriously...!!! You got into an altercation knowing full well that you had a concealed weapon, hidden in a bag no less, and then ran from the scene - implying guilt in the eyes of the law... Then they found pot at your residence, as well as illegal spirits... The whole self defense idea gets shot to hell by the number of what are still deemed illegal activities... And it sounds like you have some PTSD coming on due to entire ordeal...

You'd have been better off calling the police than attempting to intervene, as I'm sure you would now agree... Trying to play hero because you are armed is just inviting the very scenario that transpired... Believe me when I say you need some counseling before this manifests further... And good luck with the legal aspects which, incidentally, will be less harsh if you can prove you are seeking said counseling... And, as I've said many time here, perhaps not the advice you want to here but the advice you need to hear...

</off-topic>
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Doogie » Tue May 27, 2014 1:46 pm

OK, I understand your point, and have heard it before. Not agreeing, not disagreeing ...

But, the FACT is that the people in charge have many powers (prosecution, detainment, imprisonment, financial ruin, etc, etc) to enforce the laws. Right or wrong, assemblies formed by the people created those laws. Just or unjust, we must be aware of them, and at least, respect the power of enforcement behind them. If we disagree, we assemble and push for change, but because you believe in a certain set of freedoms or your own version of law, does not mean it is permitted by the greater population.

It really is simple, you can operate in the shadows and push gently for change, or they will bust down your door, cuff you, prosecute you, and put you into either the slammer or a mental ward. It is just how it works. Great? No. But unless you have GOD as your defense attorney, present in court, arguing your case, I fear your point will be lost
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby CornMealKid » Wed May 28, 2014 8:13 am

I ran because I know that the revenue-enforcers here are gun-grabbers, didn't want my gun taken, my only regret is that I stopped running. I never attempted to play hero or nothing like that, just wanted to see people get along is all. The police were called by others and took too damn long, they didn't even bother to investigate the assault, their original reason for being called... I've had enough experiences with them to know that calling 911 creates more problems than they'll solve... Effectively, calling them is calling for guns, why bother with the middle-man?

I will continue to distill and probably seek to move to Texas, Tennessee, or Wyoming once this is all done with, where they at least somewhat think the way I do. I'm tired of these subjects of "the Crown" telling me I have a duty to be a victim, that I don't have property Rights, that all my GOD-Given Rights are null and void. Will not seek therapy, the people who need therapy are the ones who were screaming "FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!" with smiles on their faces while two little first-year college students were being swarmed for absolutely no reason.

That being said, I agree with the members here in general about what they say. If you want to operate with relative ease, familiarize yourself with the man-made Acts and Statutes, beg for fairness from the corporate monopolies.
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby freshwaterjellyfish » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:09 am

Golden rule:
Never break more than one law at a time..when you do- the world seems to come down on you.
Shitty to hear..best of luck..
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Fiddleford » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:18 pm

Up where i live (thunder bay) there to worried about pot dealers and crackheads not to mention all the pills and bicker gangs anyway i got off topic but the cops wouldn't give a rats ass about a guy trying to make a drink or two in fact allthe cops here are alcoholics real shitty town but i like it
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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby OldMedUser » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:15 pm

I saw something on the news the other day about the craft distillers in Nova Scotia I think winning some major awards. Just did a quick search for craft distillers in Canada and there seems to quite a few.

List of Craft Distilleries in Canada http://www.canadianwhisky.org/news-views/directory-of-craft-distillers-in-canada.html

No link button here to make highlighted text into a link so the above will have to do I guess. :)

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Re: Canadian moonshine laws

Postby Oceanwave » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:12 pm

atarijedi wrote:
braden87 wrote:
atarijedi wrote:Turns out there is an exception to chemical still licensing in the Excise Act (not Excise Act, 2001) in Section 134, Subsection 2. It states that if your still capacity is 23L (6gal) or less, you can register and license your still without paying the bond or registration fees.

So while you still need to register, and will still need to pay the ~$12/L of pure ethanol excise tax. You can do it legally and above board, if you want to.

I sent in my application, we will see if the CRA agrees with me. :D



Get anywhere with this?
I'd like to do it!
What sort of form do you fill out and send, what's the process??

Thanks!!


I haven't received a response yet. Which is sorta good news. Last time I sent one in I had received a call by now saying that I couldn't have it.

I filled out this form > http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/ef/l63/l63-03e.pdf Which is the standard form for requesting a license and registration for a chemical still.

Most of the form is self explanatory, type of license is Spirits, registration type is Alcohol. For type of security, since I wasn't paying a bond or reg fees, I checked off "Other" and wrote in "Excise Act S.132 SS.2" and left the rest of the Bond info boxes blank.

Last time I applied, they had told me that at the start of the "Excise Act, 2001", it states that the Excise Act no longer has any force, and the 2001 version now has the power. Which is only half true, so I also wrote a letter to go along with my application. It explained how although at the start of the Excise Act, 2001 it says that the Excise Act is no longer in power, that only applies to manufacturing and handling, not licensing. There is nothing in the Excise Act, 2001 about licensing, all that info is in the Excise Act, which means they have no reason to deny my application.

Then you just mail it in to your local Excise Office. It will be one of these > http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/em/edm1-1-2/edm1-1-2-e.html


I know this is an old thread I am resurrecting, but any further updates on this.
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