Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by dieselduo » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:55 pm

well said wv_cooker. I'm with you

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by old buzzard » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:13 pm

I gotta say gents that I agree with hawkeye and cooker that noth'ns gonna happen if we dont try to make it happen, and the only way that I know to beat a politician is with anouther politician, such as a lobbiest. I hate 'em as much as anybody but its the only way in my humble opinion that we will ever get our hobby to the place where most would like it to be, who would have thought 10 years ago that they would ever get pot leaglized anywhere. But here we are 10 yrs. later and its been done, wheather you agree with it or not, it happened, and I for one think that home made likker by hobbyist's that have done there research to practice the art in the safest way possible should be legal... I also know i'm preaching to the choir on this..
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by bellybuster » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:18 pm

Pot is not legalized anywhere, decriminalized yes, legalized no. Very big difference, not semantics.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by old buzzard » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:33 pm

I stand corrected....
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by bellybuster » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:38 pm

Sorry OB, that wasn't intended to come off like it looks

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by WIski » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:27 pm

I agree with wv cooker. So many times I've read posts from the "leaders" here on HD that the goal was to get the craft legalized at the hobby level. Now some are busting the balls of those willing to charge the hill. Asking for help should not be chastised regardless of motive. We all have our reasons. I don't get the negativity. My question to the nay sayers is how do you think this is going to happen. If your waiting for tinker bell and her fairy dust it aint gonna happen.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by rad14701 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:40 pm

The war against prohibition was won by the masses exercising scofflaw tactics... Pot will win the war by the masses exercising scofflaw tactics... The same may be true for home distillation, hopefully... Our numbers are growing, not decreasing... At some point, whether with help from lobbyists or politicians, home distillation will be decriminalized... I say decriminalized because legalization is quite often complicated with taxation... We don't need to be taxed or controlled, we just need to be left alone - period...!!!

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by goose eye » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:28 pm

Yall got a problem of questioning the motivation of some
best get use to it cause this ain't nothin.
You going to war. Someone with a vested intrest cause that
how they make money don't impress me not one bit.
Big oil been doin it for a while. Problem is it's the
boots on the ground that paying the true cost with
nothing to gain.

I do got one question. Yall got a fund to get your troops
out of jail when they get jammed up or is that a oh we'll.

So I'm tole

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by Truckinbutch » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:01 pm

I don't see a need to repeat my earlier comments about where the negative legislation comes in .
Only hope we have is sliding in on the coat tails of the legalization of dope . Too many rich people's kids gettin busted for that for nothing to happen soon . We better jump on the band wagon without revealing our own proclivities .
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by woodshed » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Sometime ago I got reprimanded here for using the same comparisons to the herb movement. I still believe it is a success model that should be considered as we move forward with our craft becoming legal for the HD.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by Truckinbutch » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:26 pm

woodshed wrote:Sometime ago I got reprimanded here for using the same comparisons to the herb movement. I still believe it is a success model that should be considered as we move forward with our craft becoming legal for the HD.
It is such a tangled web to try to unravel , Woodshed . Some folks get so focused on one subject that they lose sight of the overall battle of retaking America . If that is considered too political I am fine with my post being deleted .
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by goinbroke2 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:00 am

To date, this appears the most concerted effort yet. However I do have some questions;

1) Is my signature worth anything if I'm not American?
2) Will this be contribution be tax deductible?
3) Is this solely an American thing that other countries can "borrow" in the future as validation or will Brewhouse also involve themselves in some way to legalize HD in Canada as well?

My concern is not so much "getting caught" as I don't sell, own a firearm or have anything to do with any drugs. (which is pretty much the ONLY way you get on the radar around here) But, it does concern me what the repercussions might be when I want to open legally in the future, as far as criminal record, etc.

I fully support this, albeit vicariously right now, but depending on the answers might step up. Another possibility is waiting until it's legalized in the US and then put my backing (monetarily or actual lobbying) behind the Canadian effort.

I sincerely hope you are successful. :thumbup:
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by tcowdrey » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 pm

Hello,
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions, even Prariepiss. I just wanted to say that I am watching your posts and will respond to all of the questions tomorrow. We are hiding nothing and all questions are appreciated. Keep them coming. Supporters wanted.

Tom

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by firewater69 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:44 pm

I just got two text about this on my phone.WTF? I have never had any dealings with brewhaus. and am pissed that they could get my phone number. has this happened to anyone else? :evil:
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by blind drunk » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:58 pm

I got a email from them asking me to join and they should not have had my address. I'm not even in the US, so wtf.

Best of luck tho.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by firewater69 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:04 pm

I dont know how they got the info but it sure as f**k aint no way to gain support. they need to count this redneck mo fo out!!!
Moonshine.... American as apple pie & it's part of our heritage, history & culture.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by S-Cackalacky » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:24 pm

Just wondering - did any of you who got emails ever buy anything online from Brewhaus? I'm wondering if maybe they're just doing a bulk emailing to customers in their database. If that's not the case, then YES that would be f'ed up. If it IS the case, then maybe it would have been a little more prudent on their part to clue you in on how they obtained your email address.

This whole thing is getting a little hedgy for me as well - unsolicited emails and lots of unanswered questions. I'm proceeding with caution if at all.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by firewater69 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:31 pm

@ S.C. I never bought anything from them, i make my own. and it was a text on my phone.i am waitting for a reply from the op, since he seems to be thier voice & said he would be watching this thread. it makes me wanna whoop sombodys ass!
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by Brewhaus » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:35 pm

Apparently our e-mail earlier has caused quite a stir. Hopefully Tom does not mind answering most of the questions, as I am really falling behind trying to get the HDA moving down the right path and at the same time keep out company running smoothly. I was alerted to a couple of concerns, though, so I wanted to quickly stop in to respond to those.

First off, at this point we have sent an e-mail to registered users of our forum. That's all. Two e-mails (the second only because I missed including the HDA website link in the first). No texts, etc. If you received an e-mail then you must have at some point registered on our forum.

Security of your information- there is no saying that a person who signs up is even a hobby distiller. We are getting support from friends and family members of hobbyists, but regardless you can register as a 'silent' hobbyist, meaning that we will include you in the counts for a given region, but will not include your name, address, etc. This movement needs support, and we realize that some people will want to "stay in the shed", but are behind the association's action. This is one way to handle that. Another is as (I believe it was) John Barleycorn suggested- have a friend sign up in your place. While this information is not supposed to go to any law enforcement agency, it would certainly relieve any concern.
1) Is my signature worth anything if I'm not American?
2) Will this be contribution be tax deductible?
3) Is this solely an American thing that other countries can "borrow" in the future as validation or will Brewhouse also involve themselves in some way to legalize HD in Canada as well?
I am afraid that, at this point, it is an American action, so while we would love to have your support, it will not really matter to any Congressional representatives here. Because this is a lobbying action the contributions are not deductible. The cost of the lobbyist is also not deductible as a business expense.
At the moment this is an American movement, but I would like to see Canada and other countries follow. Canada would likely be next, as their laws are very similar to ours. And, if this movement is successful, then I would love to see the HDA involved in some capacity to help achieve legalization elsewhere. The goal is for the association to take on a role similar to the Homebrewer's Association in the future, but we need to get legislation changed before that will be possible.

I hope that answers enough questions until Tom gets back. :)

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by firewater69 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:35 pm

Retraction, it was an email, i was reading it on my phone. i am a dufus. but still pissed. I guess i was seeing too much red.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by blind drunk » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:42 pm

In my case, I bought some bits and bobs from Brewhaus Canada. This was like several years ago and the Canadian guy swore up and down that BC had nothing to do with the US corp. In fact, when I contacted them later about something I saw on the US site, he again reiterated that the two corps have nothing to do with each other and that they don't interact.

So, I don't know. I guess they must be related somehow or if they aren't like they insist, they must be sharing email addresses, which isn't cool in my books.

Either way, I hate receiving unsolicited emails, especially without an unsubscribe button attached.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by jarheadshiner » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:35 pm

I'm in. Motivated by your own interests or not, it is a cause I am willing to put my name on.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by tcowdrey » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:08 am

All HD Followers:
I am blown away. Last time I posted our legalization effort on HD, I got no response to speak of. As of this morning there have been 769 views and 71 responses. Prariepiss probably helped more than he knows.

I am going to address the questions/comments that I can without repeating anymore than possible. If I miss someone, please remind me. I have attached a copy of the white paper written mostly by John Barleycorn back last summer. It is 16 or 17 pages and it explains exactly what we are up to. Please read it. It is simple and makes very good sense. For those inclined to get in on the action, use this paper as our proposal to send to your congressional representatives. It needs to be printed on a color copier since the legislative changes/additions are in red. We will be coming out shortly with flyers that can be passed out or sent (email or otherwise) to interested parties. As always (this is very important) if you have suggestions regarding this effort, please send them to me or to Rick. If you want to volunteer, PLEASE let us know.

jholmes
Rick Morris is putting his own money toward this effort, not because he expects a return on investment, but because it is the right thing to do.

John Barleycorn
I will discuss anonymous donations with Rick. Great idea. Also, your suggestion to update your FAQ started last summer is also a good idea and appreciated. We can put on the HDA website. Thanks

bellybuster
Home brewing and wine making are already legalized and decriminalized. All we are asking is to be a par which those guys. The proposal will allow you to concentrate the alcohol in the beer or wine you just made legally by use of a still. The crime being committed as far as the feds are concerned is tax evasion. They assume if you have an unregistered still you are making and selling untaxed booze.

The Lobbyist group we found is called Lobbyit.com. They are in Washington DC. The CEO is Paul Kanitra. The man primarily working for us in Keith Nelson - Keith is the person who is a former head of legislative affairs for the Department of Justice and the Drug Czar. They sound very sharp on the phone and pick up conversations quickly. Obviously their website is http://www.lobbyit.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.

Rick answered your questions about continuing the fight by helping distillers in other countries get their laws changed once we get this one done.

rad14701
We understand your desire to stay in the shadows, but hopefully you have some friend / coworkers/ family who would be willing to at least join as supporters.

goose eye
The only still manufacturer in the association thus far is Brewhaus. MileHi and Hillbillystills were asked to join but chose not to participate. The subject of product liability came up somewhere and like anyone in the manufacturing business, carrying product liability insurance is just good business sense.

Soggy Bottom Boy
I should have explained my comment about everyone applying for a fuel permit. The dates may not be spot on but the story is accurate. New Zealand is the only country where hobby distilling is legal, right? Right. How did they get there? Prior to 1986 it was against the law in New Zealand to own a still, however there were many folks who wanted stills for other purposes than distilling alcohol such as distilling water, etc. The government was then persuaded to legalize owning a still for legal purposes. The sales of stills skyrocketed and the Customs Department was charged with keep track of all the stills. They did not have the human resources to license and track all of the stills being bought/built and finally gave up and basically said to hell with it. BTW this is exactly where the TTB is today in the US. Anyway, with this law on the books that the Customs Dept. could not possibly enforce, the government made a business decision to legalize home distilling. In 1996 or so they passed the hobby distill laws.

I was just wondering what the TTB would do if they all of a sudden got 20,000 applications for fuel permits!! I am not suggesting we do that, not now anyway, it was just a thought.

Rick,
Thanks for pitching in about the texts and emails. I had no idea what was going on and knew it was nothing we had done.

Thanks to all for reading all of this. I am happy to answer any and all questions about our cause and the HDA. Please give it some thought about joining.

Tom
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by woodshed » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:38 am

While I fully support legalization for the hobbyist I will not be joining this front.
I am not a suspicious person by nature but something about this or the way it has been presented does not set right with me.

The alcohol fuel permit is simply a way for the ttb to track at least some of the activity going on in the country. They are not so dumb as to believe people are really trying to make fuel ethanol at home on a small scale. All about the gathering of info. Period.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by S-Cackalacky » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:19 am

woodshed wrote:While I fully support legalization for the hobbyist I will not be joining this front.
I am not a suspicious person by nature but something about this or the way it has been presented does not set right with me.

The alcohol fuel permit is simply a way for the ttb to track at least some of the activity going on in the country. They are not so dumb as to believe people are really trying to make fuel ethanol at home on a small scale. All about the gathering of info. Period.
I must agree here. I don't give up my right to privacy for nuthin' or no one. When and if I'm satisfied that this is legit, I will consider joining HDA because legalization is too big an issue to ignore. But, until I'm satisfied that the members, Brewhaus and tcowdrey, are who they say they are, I'll hold back on my commitment to join. Sorry guys, nothing personal - just moving forward with caution.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by Brewhaus » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:32 am

I do understand people being cautious. That makes this more difficult to get moving, as people have legitimate concerns. I am not sure how to prove that the HDA is all legit, and is honestly being run by Brewhaus until it can sustain itself as its own entity. Maybe the mod's here can confirm for everyone that the e-mail address for my forum account are indeed a brewhaus.com e-mail address. Maybe they can confirm my ip address (which will correlate to our group of static ip addresses). If anyone has a suggestion to help ease concerns I am happy to hear them.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by Prairiepiss » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:39 am

Maybe you guys can just spend some time here. And get to know everyone. Which was my whole point.

Just saying.

And sory proving an email isn't gona help me. Email addresses are easily manipulated.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by jarheadshiner » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:40 am

While I am thankful for the group of folks here who freely share information with each other, I think it is very naive to believe that this alone is gonna bring about decriminalization and/or legalization. Distrust of lobbyists, politicians, and companies is a normal and sensible thing. However, sometimes we have to exploit these resources to get what we need. Do your research by all means, but until we put our names on something as a group then I believe we are pissing in the wind.

All that being said, once we get some attention, then this forum will be the model for them to show how dedicated we are to safety and discouragement of illegal sales. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by woodshed » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:13 am

Brewhaus wrote: If anyone has a suggestion to help ease concerns I am happy to hear them.
I think PP hit on it. Spend time around here and get to know folks. Trust is earned. Too bad Tom let this drop last year due to a lack of responses. Perseverance on his part may have started building that trust. But when some one just pops in then disappears only to re emerge later as a different poster it leads to a lack of trust.

What you are asking of people is a big step out of their comfort zone. Few will do so without a foundation of trust.

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Re: Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

Post by Stainless » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:19 am

Hi, maybe what I said in an earlier post and thought I was being shot down in flames for
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