Making our own documentery

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Kegg_jam » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:49 pm

Shoot, the membership numbers alone should be an indicator of how many people want change. The laws against distilling are stupid. We all know that. How do we convince them of that?
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Monkeyman88 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:51 pm

Get some guys from NZ to do some segments. Seeing as how it's legal here, no problems with showing faces. Maybe even get someone from NZ to upload it from an NZ ip.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby john2674 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:04 am

If this goes forward and you guys need any help with anything just say the word!
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby thecroweater » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:18 am

I think you guys are a bit nuts, it could backfire. Safety including OH&S and sanitization want feather big. Some polished flutes for the oohing ahh effect and a heavy look at NZ so ppl can see the spirits industry didn't collapse and whole population ain't getting around with a white cane and Jake leg walking brace.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby pythonshine » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:49 am

I could do a rookie getting the knowhow to do it right from the pros. Showing not the '"ease" But the simplisity once knowledge and proper practices are in place.
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Crankys spoon feedin: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=52975
Read and live by em: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5090
Safety: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=11187
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby pythonshine » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:05 am

One point to be made, imo, is that because it is illegal people do it in the shadows and those not lucky/smart enough to stumbel upon the HD gem will be missinformed and will be doing it unsafe. With knowledge comes safety, and the legality of the craft at home is hindering that knowledge.
Keep on keepin
Crankys spoon feedin: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=52975
Read and live by em: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5090
Safety: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=11187
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Woopig_1 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:48 am

With anything like this, there needs to be a committee. That's the only way to keep the decision making below a loud roar. Maybe some folks volunteer themselves for the committee. Or you could even nominate someone. Could shoot for a group of 10? Could be more than one committee.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby goose eye » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:05 pm

Would not put a homedistiller web site brand on it.
it go south they take Jesse along for the ride

So I'm tole
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby rgreen2002 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:06 pm

You have to ask yourself what are you looking to make? Do you want a documentary or a commercial like the "I am a homebrewer"? I don't think with the legal angle on what we do you can make the same commercial as the homebrewers.

I think if your going for a documentary you have to have a message.... one point that you're trying to get across. Too many ideas and people cant keep track of the message. Veer off too much, use too many different types of videos and it becomes your Aunt Mabel and Uncle Gene's home movies of the Grand Canyon. The smaller the message, the easier to maintain focus. There are already repetative ideas on the thread: our emphasis on safety, our desire to debunk the "hillbilly" myth, the illegal angle. Maybe get 5 or so ideas on what you want the message to be and then put a survey monkey together. Ask members where they want to go with this.
Maybe ask Lauren for some input: viewtopic.php?p=7366378#p7366378 - She's in the biz. Maybe Monkeyman and Odin could call in a favor.

Pick one message and put it together. If it works out well...make the sequel!
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby rgreen2002 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:09 pm

Then whoever puts the thing together... https://www.facebook.com/DesktopDocumentaries/

Lots of interesting stuff here!
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby masonsjax » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:36 pm

Seems like the main point is that the laws are stupid and should be changed. The rest is evidence supporting the reasons we believe it should be legalized.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby WooTeck » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:06 am

shadylane wrote:
WooTeck wrote:we should do our own documentary. try and sell it to vice or someone all profits going to the legalization process.


WooTeck started the Idea, so don't blame me :lol:

dont go blaming me for this :lol:
bearriver wrote:VICE would likely do it and make a great doc. Someone might want to consider emailing them.

i was thinking vice. the whole idea has been on my mind for a while.
MyUncleMo wrote:It's possible to do a grassroots Doc with everybody in their own little still house somewhere...

1. Come up with the script.
2. Assign a "segment" to whichever member is best fit to provide the video and proper advise.
3. Each member shoots their own segment.
4. Somebody skilled to string them together in any digi moviemaker application such as iMovie or Adobe Premier etc.
5. Include a Narrator to use to transition the segments into one intellectual factual piece that makes the point the community is looking to make. Whatever that may be...
6. Add some banjo pickin' :crazy: background music and release it on iTunes!

this is very simaler to one of my ideas where we each shoot our own parts and have them spliced toghether. then i have another idea where i come to the willing folks and interview them. the second idea is purely so i have a good excuse to travel the states/world and meet ya'll.

my thought for a rough out line was.
opening - copper porn with some good music and a voice over introducing the subject.
fisrt segment - the law, why homebrew is legal distilation is not? reasons that it should be legal. exaples of Nz
second segment - safty- someone next to still going over the rules that we follow and why. building, running, storing.
third sement - debunk myths- may be redundent but may be valuable.
forth segment - lab testing home distilled vs commercial & expert pannel on whisky tasting and comparing vs commercial.
fith segment - out line the things you need to learn/know before you even think about starting.
ending - more copper porn, still building, running with good music and roll of handles if desired.

the options for ditrabution- news/media out let (vice covers this sort of stuff all the time), netflix/other big meadia streamer if production is up to par or youtube.

we could even release more than one.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Fivey » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:25 pm

thecroweater wrote:I think you guys are a bit nuts, it could backfire. Safety including OH&S and sanitization want feather big. Some polished flutes for the oohing ahh effect and a heavy look at NZ so ppl can see the spirits industry didn't collapse and whole population ain't getting around with a white cane and Jake leg walking brace.


If footage was used of distillers and stills here in New Zealand, no consequences would accrue to those involved...
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby PANMAN1965 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:55 pm

I think that a comparative to home brewing would be beneficial. Illustrate the fact that I as a home brewer can make 200 gallons a year but one drop distilled is illegal. Actually have someone with home made wine or beer pour it into a boiler and say that up until this point the processes are exactly the same and 100% legal BUT if the fire is lighted it is a crime. EXACT same alcohol, but if I heat it up and catch the steam, it is illegal.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby moosemilk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:02 am

Just wrote a paper on legalization of our hobby a few months back. There's tons of resources out there I found. Hell, TIME magazine covered aspects of distilling. Yet another source I used discussed how the government knew people were dying during prohibition from drinking alcohol they (government) had poisoned themselves, but did nothing about (source: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... s_war.html ). I'd be willing to let any of our senior members who i have come to trust read my paper (not just "anybody" simply because the paper does have my name on it). Could be used as a somewhat "outline" for a documentary. My final mark on it (not to brag) was 99/100 (lost one damn mark because i forgot to put a citation in when typing my final draft, DOH!). It's full APA style complete with reference page. A brief history of distilling, the argument of homebrewing/wine making aspect, the safety aspects, dispelling many of the myths associated with distilling and where some of them came from, a little on current legalization efforts, references to the legality of it in NZ, and a little more.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby bitter » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:01 am

Moose could you post your doc here, without your name etc... would be interesting to read. Or I guess those that seen it could link your name to the site maybe not good. Would be interesting to read though.

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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Bushman » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:06 am

Wow Moose that sounds like something I would enjoy reading, as you know I have several threads on history of distilling and other interesting tidbits I have found.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby masonsjax » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:43 am

Why would a history paper get you in trouble?
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Bushman » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:26 am

masonsjax wrote:Why would a history paper get you in trouble?

I think what he is saying if he posts it here with his handle, the paper is signed with his real name thus identifying him as a homedistiller.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby moosemilk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:05 pm

Problem with posting here is it was a college paper, and as such, admitted to "Safe Assign". Simply plugging in the paper would show the original author (myself), or even many parts of it. Safe assign is there to evaluate the paper for plagiarism, as well as protect the author from being plagiarized in the future. I will, however, pass it on to read privately. It's not extremely in depth, it was a "persuasive" assignment, where a view (thesis) is stated, and the goal is to persuade the reader of your point. My point being, Legalize distilling. I'll send it to a few and let you be the judge lol. I just think it would make a fairly good outline to have a documentary follow for legalization. Give or take.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:40 pm

moosemilk wrote:Problem with posting here is it was a college paper, and as such, admitted to "Safe Assign". Simply plugging in the paper would show the original author (myself), or even many parts of it. Safe assign is there to evaluate the paper for plagiarism, as well as protect the author from being plagiarized in the future. I will, however, pass it on to read privately. It's not extremely in depth, it was a "persuasive" assignment, where a view (thesis) is stated, and the goal is to persuade the reader of your point. My point being, Legalize distilling. I'll send it to a few and let you be the judge lol. I just think it would make a fairly good outline to have a documentary follow for legalization. Give or take.


I don't blame you a bit. By publishing under your name, you have opened yourself up to "problems". While I would like to read your paper, I can understand your reluctance to publish it under your own name. You must do what you think is right. Perhaps a pseudonym might be appropriate?
-RHB
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby moosemilk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:07 pm

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:
moosemilk wrote:Problem with posting here is it was a college paper, and as such, admitted to "Safe Assign". Simply plugging in the paper would show the original author (myself), or even many parts of it. Safe assign is there to evaluate the paper for plagiarism, as well as protect the author from being plagiarized in the future. I will, however, pass it on to read privately. It's not extremely in depth, it was a "persuasive" assignment, where a view (thesis) is stated, and the goal is to persuade the reader of your point. My point being, Legalize distilling. I'll send it to a few and let you be the judge lol. I just think it would make a fairly good outline to have a documentary follow for legalization. Give or take.


I don't blame you a bit. By publishing under your name, you have opened yourself up to "problems". While I would like to read your paper, I can understand your reluctance to publish it under your own name. You must do what you think is right. Perhaps a pseudonym might be appropriate?
-RHB


Even a pseudonym doesn't help now. Safe Assign is a program that checks for plagiarism as well as helps protect from it. My work is now uploaded and stored, so even taking a clip from it, safe assign can find the original author. Hell, it even picked up some of my reference pages! Would like to give special thanks to RandyMarsh for it though, as he turned me on to Rick Morris who helped with an interview and information on legalization.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Bushman » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:19 pm

As a retired educator, I enjoyed reading the article and honored that you trusted me to evaluate it. I thought that your citations shows you did your research but of course I am like singing to the choir as I am already a believer in legalization. I thought your information about NZ legalizing the hobby and their safety record demonstrates that through proper safety standards this is a safer hobby than many we have legalized today. I do not want to go into more information as it might give away the document. Congratulations I hope it was well received by your instructor.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby moosemilk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:17 pm

Bushman wrote:As a retired educator, I enjoyed reading the article and honored that you trusted me to evaluate it. I thought that your citations shows you did your research but of course I am like singing to the choir as I am already a believer in legalization. I thought your information about NZ legalizing the hobby and their safety record demonstrates that through proper safety standards this is a safer hobby than many we have legalized today. I do not want to go into more information as it might give away the document. Congratulations I hope it was well received by your instructor.


Thanks for the insight, and it was well received. When I picked my paper up, they mentioned how interesting they had found it as well as informative, and really enjoyed the read. It's one thing to right a paper for a peer, but to write one to try and persuade somebody who reads hundreds of papers on various subjects is another. I could have easily gone into a 50 page essay with the info gathered, but had to shorten it down to meet criteria. I was already double the required, and the last thing you want to do is stall an instructor who has a couple hundred others to read and grade lol.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby bitter » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:36 pm

It was very well done! You deserve an A++ I enjoyed it so much will read it again in a few days.

B
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby moosemilk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:23 pm

bitter wrote:It was very well done! You deserve an A++ I enjoyed it so much will read it again in a few days.

B


Glad to hear you enjoyed it.

More than welcome to pass it along, i just can't post it here with my name on it. In hindsight, i should have sent it to a mod and had them post anonymously. If it can open a few eyes even a little, then it's served more of a purpose than just a mark for me (I fixed my missing citation, as i do believe in giving credit where it's due).

I didn't like the fact i had to have so many citations, but on the other hand, the citations from solid sources adds to credibility to the essay.

Back on topic, if there is a documentary done, I'd be happy to assist in any way possible.

My idea as an intro would be similar to my essay. Swap out who and a little though. Make it the "stereotypical" shiner that everybody can relate to, simply to grasp the attention. Maybe out in the woods, a copper pot on a fire, having them talk a little about heritage, medicinal values, basically touch on anything that is to be covered in the documentary but in a simple form. The person should have "character", somebody that would keep attention, a bit of comical value as well, but also a seriousness.

Following this, it could move on to a history of distillation . . . how far back it's been dated, major points in history, how it has aided man. Showing that if simple people in even ancient times could safely due it with limited technology, there is no reason it can't safely be done now with our modern knowledge.

Then go on to where many of the myths started that still follow today. Like the real source of almost all the methanol poisoning during prohibition. How a still does not simply just "blow up", or one that tips over full of mash does not set everything on fire like "that show" portrays, and the reason why.

Just a few thoughts for how a documentary could be done. Every so often, you cut back to that original character cooking his whiskey by fire the way he was shown, maybe tell a short unrelated story . . . something to give a bit of entertainment rather than just educational, adds relief and keeps interest. Doing this time to time, maybe he/she (yes, who said the character has to be male? Let's not forget, distilling was once the job of the woman of the house, much like cooking) comes in between each segment, and is the lead in through a story or comment into the next segment. Do this through the entire documentary. Then at the end, this character is seen in suit and tie, or professional dress, getting into their Escalade or whatever fancy car as they are off to their very respectable job in the "real world" and this is just a hobby to them.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:13 pm

Moosemilk,

Thank you for sending me the paper. Perhaps you might want to start a new thread in the "legalization" section with the 1st page that has your name removed. It was well written. I'm sure that it will be torn apart by someone in the membership :roll: , don't let that deter you. Nice job.
While you are preaching to the choir, It might be nice if it was picked up by mainstream media.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby moosemilk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:32 pm

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:Moosemilk,

Thank you for sending me the paper. Perhaps you might want to start a new thread in the "legalization" section with the 1st page that has your name removed. It was well written. I'm sure that it will be torn apart by someone in the membership :roll: , don't let that deter you. Nice job.


The problem is it can still be tracked back to me in a couple keystrokes, even with my name off it. Every paper and essay has to be uploaded to "Safe Assign". This makes sure i do not plagiarize but also helps to make sure i am not plagiarized. Great tool http://www.safeassign.com/ There is also "Grammarly" which is essentially the same thing https://www.grammarly.com/ Both programs also check for spelling, grammar, punctuation and other mistakes, more than what even most word processors do. So even uploading here without my name on it, the essay could be plugged into safe assign and up pops my name as author.

As far as somebody tearing apart, i'm not worried. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and i dont' take offence to opposing ones so long as they are educated.

Btw, this grammarly or safe assign could be used to check the script for the documentary to ensure there is no plagiarism there either. I know, nobody really mentioned scripting. But the paperwork has to be done to make it worthwhile. Edits and such will ensure the documentary flows smoothly and is accurate.
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby masonsjax » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:08 am

None of us would have known safe assign exists if you hadn't posted about it ;)
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Re: Making our own documentery

Postby Hillbilly Popstar » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:49 am

If the fed wanted to incriminate any of us through this website it would be done already.

Any computer savvy individual (I am not one) could hop on here and fetch your name, address, ip address and probably much more.
Do you think this website could protect our annonymity even from the fed?
"insert something profound and meaningful here"
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