Legalization now

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

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Skipper1953
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Skipper1953 »

I would leave out all but the first sentence of the fourth paragraph. Instead of giving examples of possible dangers (let them come up with those on their own), point out that free and open discussion about legal hobby distilling activity could only improve the understanding and safety of those who chose to participate.

Otherwise, I like it.
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fizzix
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Re: Legalization now

Post by fizzix »

Thanks, Skipper.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by fizzix »

I think OP Yonder has made a great point with this thread.
C'mon y'all and write your representative. Find him/her HERE.

Copy and paste my letter if you don't want to write your own. Here's a template:


DATE
The Honorable _________________
THEIR STREET ADDRESS
THEIR CITY, STATE ZIP

Dear Representative _______________,

Funds have run out for our lobbyist for H.R. 2903 (114th): Craft Beverage Modernization and Tax Reform Act of 2015, and thus it has stalled and I’m looking for help to revive it.

{For Missouri Residents: Missourians are fortunate in that Home Distillation is legal for up to 100 gallons per adult per household, up to 200 gallons annually.
However, it is still a Federal offense, and that has driven the craft/hobby underground.}

{For other residents: It is currently against Federal law to distill spirits at home for personal consumption.}

This means that bad information, techniques, and practices continue to thrive without proper guidance that the legal Craft Beer Associations currently enjoy.
This breeds danger to life, health, and property by the ill-informed as the Federal laws are going unheeded.

Allow me to point out that free and open discussion about legal hobby distilling activity could only improve the understanding and safety of those who chose to participate.

Please, I urge you to consider pushing this craft into the light of day by making this a Federally legal activity. Not for the intention to sell a liquor creation,
but rather for personal consumption and gifting without fear of fines or prison. Bringing this craft out of the shadows would make it as safe and enjoyable as home beer brewing.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,

YOUR NAME
YOUR TITLE
YOUR ADDRESS
YOUR PHONE NUMBER
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amdamgraham
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Re: Legalization now

Post by amdamgraham »

I believe the Craft Modernization Act was incorporated into a broader bill (ref below) but the home distillation component was stripped out. I think a more specific action item would be helpful in writing your representative. So are 'we" asking our reps to write a completely new bill or perhaps for home distillation to be added to an existing bill (is there one?) or to a future bill?

ref - https://www.ttb.gov/alcohol/craft-bever ... form.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
On December 22, 2017, the President signed into law the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (Public Law 115-97) ("the Act"), which makes extensive changes to the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (IRC), including provisions related to alcohol that are administered by TTB. Those changes are effective January 1, 2018.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Pikey »

Skipper1953 wrote:I would leave out all but the first sentence of the fourth paragraph. Instead of giving examples of possible dangers (let them come up with those on their own), point out that free and open discussion about legal hobby distilling activity could only improve the understanding and safety of those who chose to participate.

Otherwise, I like it.
I agree - what we do is less dangerous than cycling, ski-ing, skuba -diving, crossing the road, driving a car, shooting, probably fishing and drinking in a bar !

Why should we defend something which is not an issue by specific reference to "danger" - ?
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Tater »

Pikey wrote:
Skipper1953 wrote:I would leave out all but the first sentence of the fourth paragraph. Instead of giving examples of possible dangers (let them come up with those on their own), point out that free and open discussion about legal hobby distilling activity could only improve the understanding and safety of those who chose to participate.

Otherwise, I like it.
I agree - what we do is less dangerous than cycling, ski-ing, skuba -diving, crossing the road, driving a car, shooting, probably fishing and drinking in a bar !

Why should we defend something which is not an issue by specific reference to "danger" - ?
Last topic ya posted this bullshit in was locked and now ya have carried it over here to this one . There are dangers to what we do and you seem to make lite of it .Next time ya do it Ill ban you .Safety first always.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Tater »

Lets keep this on topic.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Yonder »

:thumbup: :clap: :clap: Good job Fizz. We should continue to highlight the good that our community does in educating hobbyists. Many hobbys have an inherent danger but that doesn't mean they should be banned, dozens of examples exist. The fact is that craft distillers dont just spring up by immaculate conception, the start in basements and sheds all across the country. We help make them safe and well informed. Wish we could get more states to follow Missouri 's lead.
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fizzix
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Re: Legalization now

Post by fizzix »

Off she goes...
Let's see if I get a reasonable response.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Bearded-and-Bored »

I made this video a while ago when the Hobby Distillers Association still had the lobbyist working for them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rVZ0TwyYD4 Most of the video is still relevant and I updated the info in the video description recently. Social media is tough if you have a tiny following like me. I tweeted the #LegalizeHobbyDistilling tag and video to a bunch of distilling equipment manufacturers to get some support (since they literally have the most to gain from legalization), but got ignored or blocked. I think we just need more voices to get the message out.

Here's a copy of the letter I sent to my Senators and Rep when there was still a bill in Congress that could have easily been amended to legalize hobby distilling. When I sent it I adjusted the bills that I referenced depending on who I sent it to. Now that the Craft Beverage Modernization Act got passed WITHOUT the the hobby distilling section I'll need to rewrite it. But maybe this old version will have some useful wording for anyone who wants to write their senators and rep.
Dear Congressman,
As a resident of the Great State of ------------ and a member of the Hobby Distillers Association (HDA), I am contacting you to discuss an issue of importance to me and thousands of other citizens throughout our country. At first glance the issue I’ll be discussing may seem insignificant, but it effects a great many people and, if resolved, can benefit the economy greatly.

Last legislative session there was a bill I and my fellow members of the HDA followed with great interest, HR 2903 (114th Congress). We were very encouraged by the high number of cosponsors this bill had, showing broad bipartisan support. Many of your fellow Congressmen were among the cosponsors. Sadly, this bill never made it out of committee.

In short, it would have eased the excise tax burden for thousands of alcohol related small businesses (specifically craft breweries and craft distilleries), as well as put home-based, hobbyist distillation of spirits (i.e. strictly for personal consumption, never for sale) on legal par with home-based hobbyist production of beer and wine. Presently, it is not legal at the Federal level to distill spirits in one’s own home, for any purpose whatsoever.

Congressman Erik Paulsen of Minnesota has now introduced HR 747 which has similarities to the previously mentioned bill for excise tax relief; however, this new bill doesn’t legalize home distillation of spirits. I ask that you please amend this bill to fix that problem. Equalizing the legal treatment of hobbyist production of beer, wine and spirits would provide even-handed consistency in law for these directly analogous activities. It would also protect individuals and families from overzealous regulation, and wasteful and unnecessary prosecution. Furthermore, it will, without a doubt, have a positive effect on the liquor industry and the economy as a whole.

Hobby distilling is a natural point of curiosity for many home beer brewing enthusiasts, yet to do more than book research on the subject is a felony. This seems unjustifiable in this current day for these directly related hobbies.

Speaking for myself, I am a home brewer of beer and cider, but beyond that I am currently writing a business plan to open a licensed craft distillery here in ----------------. One of the requirements for a Federal TTB licensed distillery is to get your liquor recipes tested and approved by the TTB before you can start producing and selling. But there is a very obvious and frustrating Catch 22 here. How am I, or any other law abiding citizen, supposed to build and perfect a liquor recipe for testing and approval, or to gain proficiency in my chosen field, if practicing that craft and creating that recipe for personal use on legally purchased professional equipment could result in prison time and a felony record? There is no legal loophole to distill liquor in any quantity for the purposes of consumption (or TTB recipe approval) without a federal distiller’s license.

A shocking reality is that many currently licensed craft-distillers in my state had to hide their illegal distilling practice and liquor recipe testing activities before they were ready to submit samples for testing to ultimately get licensed with the TTB. There is an understanding in the craft distilling industry that when you’re first starting out on the road to having a licensed distillery “this is the only way to do it”. Going by these prominent and successful examples, it seems one would have to break the law in order to later abide by it. I find that to be a ridiculously high barrier to entry into this field and completely unacceptable.

I want to build a business that celebrates my state and contributes to my local economy by using unique products from my area in my liquor recipes. Unfortunately as the federal law stands currently, there is no way forward for me, as I am not willing to risk prison for my dream of owning my own business. Until it is legal to learn and practice distilling in my home, my plans must be shelved.

Today it is legal for U.S. citizens to make our own wine and to brew our own beer, and has been legal since 1978. We can purchase, possess and consume distilled alcohol. However, the process of distilling the alcohol out of the legal wine or beer we made at home is forbidden to us by an outdated holdover of Prohibition-era regulation. This law no longer serves any purpose to the common good and must be changed.

To address concerns of potential illegal profiting from a repeal of this law, referring to “bootleggers” and “moonshiners”, specific provisions of the previous bill, HR 2903, wisely retained prohibitions against the sale of unlicensed home-crafted liquor, similar to laws concerning home brewing and wine making. Those of us with similar interests believe this remains a common-sense approach, as would a limit to the amount of product based on the number of household adults.

In my final point to demonstrate how necessary and valuable changing this law can be I’d like to note this fact. Since the 1980’s innovators who started out in the home brewing and home wine making hobby have spurred the alcohol industry to grow exponentially. By challenging the industry with new ideas, styles and recipes these early hobbyists have contributed billions of dollars to the economy and secured the American dream for themselves as business owners and entrepreneurs. These thousands of successful small brewers dotted around our country got their start by brewing quality beers in their kitchens and garages, eventually opening craft breweries, and ultimately changing the face of the industry. For example, Jim Koch, founder of Sam Adam’s Beer started out as a home brewer. He is a prime example of what a hobbyist/entrepreneur can do when unnecessary regulations are removed and competition is allowed to spur market growth. In my opinion, Jim Koch and others like him are clear examples of the potential contribution legalized hobby distilling could also bring to the market if it is legalized to open the door for new entrepreneurs. I ask you to keep this in mind when you consider this issue.

If you’d like more information about this topic I encourage you to contact Rick Morris, Founder of the Hobby Distillers Association. 5970 Park Vista Cir, # 178-190, Keller, Texas, 76244. (817) 750-2739. https://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thank you for your time and consideration of this issue.
It is my guess that the hobby distilling section was kept out of the most recent bill because Mitch McConnell is the leader in the senate and he's from Kentucky, the home of the liquor lobby. He's possibly the reason the bill died in committee the previous time it was put forward in 2015 as well.

We got so close to passing the bill before. I'm no expert, but in my opinion the reason the first bill died in committee was because there was no VOCAL grass roots movement. The HDA philosophy at that time, based on advice from the lobbyist, was to stay quiet and let the lobbyist do all the work behind the scenes in the halls of Congress. I can understand that reasoning, but that approach failed. The second time we failed to get the amendment added to the new version of the Craft Beverage Modernization Act was because the donations to the HDA dried up and Rick Morris, the founder, couldn't afford to pay for the lobbyist out of his own pocket anymore. That is understandable since it was $3000 a month.

Moving forward it's my opinion that we need a vocal social media and letter writing presence, as well as a lobbying effort if we're going to get this hobby legalized and move passed the fear of prosecution for a hobby that should have been legalized decades ago. I'm sick and tired of having my still disassembled and collecting dust. I'll be donating to the HDA again and doing what I can online and with letters to my representative to keep fighting. I hope the entire forum will do likewise, but I completely understand anyone who wishes not to participate.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Bearded-and-Bored »

Not trying to hijack the thread, just had one more thought to get some input on from you guys.

Since all the still manufacturers are making money off exploiting the loophole that let's them sell stills they are raking in a ton of dough while there customers risk prison if they ever want to use the stuff. Seems unfair to me. I think they should get some skin in the game. Rick at Brewhaus was the only one to try to get the stupid law repealed. If I heard correctly, non of the other makers or sellers wanted to help.

So far, there are only a handful of hobbyists willing to go public on social media and write letters (otherwise we'd be hearing about it). I get it. Nobody wants to be on a list especially when we're advocating for an illegal hobby. Because of that, a grass roots movement will always have a limited reach unless we can get some momentum. We really need the lobbyist too. Also...I'm just gonna say it...maybe we need some hipsters too. Look what they did for weed. It's going to be legalized. Eventually the old dogs will retire from congress or get voted out and they finally get it passed. Great for the pot smokers, but what about us?

Moving on. Does anybody have any idea of how we could go about convincing other manufacturers to help pay for the lobbyist? I don't know if the other still sellers are just nervous that congress might suddenly close their loophole(doubt that'd ever happen), or if they're just not interested in changing things. Either reason is pretty lame. If there were suddenly a push to ban still sales all we'd have to do is shout, "Congressman XYZ is anti-small business!" Hell, maybe that would finally motivate the manufacturers to get off their butts. Perish the thought.

My only serious idea is to write the various manufacturers and urge them to help. Explain that their market will only expand, basically overnight.

So, other than recruiting a hipster army or trying guilt and cajole still manufacturers into helping....anybody got any good ideas?
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Re: Legalization now

Post by WIski »

I may suggest that the "few" still producers out there are doing extremely well "as is". They may not want legalization for hobby guys as this would bring more competition as demand for stills would entice more still producers to jump in the market. This would bring tighter profit margins. $$ :mrgreen: $$
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Re: Legalization now

Post by 6 Row Joe »

. https://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The site is shut down but there is a Facebook group instead. I don't like that idea much. If you post, your name and your info is there for all to see. It is such a catch 22. No one wants to bring attention to themselves for the cause. I bet we will be able to purchase marijuana before home distilling is legal.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Bearded-and-Bored »

6 Row Joe wrote:. https://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The site is shut down but there is a Facebook group instead. I don't like that idea much. If you post, your name and your info is there for all to see. It is such a catch 22. No one wants to bring attention to themselves for the cause. I bet we will be able to purchase marijuana before home distilling is legal.
They do have a Gofundme account where you can donate anonymously. That's what I did. https://www.gofundme.com/federally-lega ... distilling

Also, you're probably right about the weed.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Budapest8485 »

Question is, why were they there in the first place? Obviously there was some other legal concern at stake. And is that a 30 gallon or smaller boiler? I think this site is pretty clear about what's considered hobby size and what's commercial. He's not Jim Beam, but that thing puts out more than he's using.

As a wise man once told me, don't break two laws at the same time...
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Yonder
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Yonder »

Soon as the election silliness is done, time to send them letters. Don't forget your state reps if you live one of our backward states. If its good enough for 23 states, I think it is, it should be good for all.
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Legalization now

Post by kiwi Bruce »

I believe, that until a law becomes part of the UCC it's not part of federal law, so it would only be under the State laws.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by iwine »

How do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time. I was just on the website doing some reading of the hobby distiller Association https://hobbydistillersassociation.org/ ... state.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I was reading the laws that you had Bi-State. I thought it was interesting that some of the states. distilling was legal or at least not illegal. it seems as if there are 8 states that distilling is legal or not illegal . starting with Alaska , Arizona , Maine , Massachusetts , Michigan, Missouri , Ohio ,and Rhode Island. There are also 3 states that seem to be on the fence according to their laws or have vague laws, Iowa, North Dakota and West Virginia.
I'm just thinking out loud.
This might be another approach.What about going after your state legislators and trying to get the laws amended by state. if there are enough States that get on board with making distilling legal the feds would have to take a hard look at changing the laws federally. You still have to have the lobbyist working federally.
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fizzix
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Re: Legalization now

Post by fizzix »

It's killing me as I had a phone response from my Congressman's office after sending that letter urging U.S. Federal legalization.
We were disconnected (cell phones!) before I heard any gist, and the number I called them back on was "invalid."
Never got a follow up call.

Wish they'd call me back...
Last edited by fizzix on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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iwine
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Re: Legalization now

Post by iwine »

PS after reading a little more it looks like some states only see it as a misdemeanor which from what I understand of your laws is basically a slap on the wrist and small fines( $1,000 or under) And your equipment confiscated of course did the states that would have to be approached first because they're not seeing you as such a big deal.Just a thought.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by nerdybrewer »

iwine wrote:PS after reading a little more it looks like some states only see it as a misdemeanor which from what I understand of your laws is basically a slap on the wrist and small fines( $1,000 or under) And your equipment confiscated of course did the states that would have to be approached first because they're not seeing you as such a big deal.Just a thought.
In some states they are using misdemeanor convictions to remove your right to own firearms.
Used to be only a felony conviction could do that, so nowadays you want to be very careful and keep your record clean as a whistle.
I'd bet my state (stilling is a misdemeanor here) would be more than happy to separate me from my right to own firearms for anything they could dream up.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by thecroweater »

Don't bet on it, here in straya states have pretty damn vague if and laws pertaining to home distillation but the federal tax office sure as hell does and these ferrets go rabid when they smell money. Now obviously they have started to work out no one is applying for a home distilling licence as no one is interested in paying $84 per litre (per100% plus 10% GST) alcohol tax on a product they don't intend to sell so they have dropped the licensing fees and offing a chance to claim back at tax time 60% of that. Yeah good luck selling that puppy. Naturally given state laws need to be favourable but the USA like here has the major obstacle rooted in federal law.
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Re: Legalization now

Post by Yonder »

Well, folks, election is over and places have been taken. Letters going out to my state and federal reps Monday morning. I'll given them bastids a month and do it again. Tired of the foolishness and tired of being meek. Time to set this right. Please join me in letting your reps know that this foolish sanction against home distilling has to end.
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