Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Red Rim » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:22 pm

Jimbo, I hear my voice in your words, I would climb on the soapbox, but there isn't room for two.

We have been taught cholesterol is bad, carbs are okay. Wrong. There is an Olympic level ultra runner I know that is out to prove how wrong this line of thinking is. He wins races using only high fat, low carb foods for 50 and 100 mile foot races through the mountains. Yes he is insane, but then again maybe not.

I would love to brew Monsanto free corn only and if I ever go commercial, it will be part of my sales pitch. Locally grown, Monsanto free, corn, local wood, local labor. ( probably exactly what Woodshed is selling).

As for fuel, back on topic. I run my fores and heads in my truck, it runs like hell for a few minutes and then runs like a race car the rest of the tank. Probably bad for the truck, but my last Chevy got 307,000 miles before my tranny went, I don't think I can hurt this one.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Bob Loblaw » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:08 am

Jimbo wrote:The worst thing subsidized corn is doing to us is KILLING US. Subsidized corn has made processed corn oil, and HFCS so cheap it has become ubiquitous in ALL our foods. Its subsidized because Monsanto and ConAgra OWN the USDA. And grain is the base of our food pyramid because Monsanto and ConAgra OWN the USDA, it has no business in our food pyramid, its not a paleolithic food like vegetables, fruits, nuts and fish/meat. At the turn of the twentieth century diabetes rates were low, cardiovascular disease was almost unheard of and obesity rates were a tiny fraction of what we're suffering today. Lard and butter were the darlings of the home cook, the primary source of fat in the diet. This was before the processed vegetable oil industry skyrocketed, corn and canola oil and high fructose corn syrup hadn’t yet been invented and folks were thriving in good health on eggs fried in bacon fat, fruit pies with lard-crust and foods fried in grass-fed tallow. Now we're all obese and dying of diseases like diabetes and cardiovascular problems. But the big food companies have everyone convinced (manipulated), via our stupid ass government (puppets) that lard and butter are bad and you should eat processed oils. And starches and HFCS in all our food now spikes our insulin response, so the sugars and simple starches are stored as fat, and we march toward diabetes as our pancreas screams for mercy.

sorry, topic cranks me up.


All true. This article is about 12 years old now, but has some great history on how we got to the beliefs about our diets that people hold as truths today: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magaz ... t-lie.html

Unfortunate that in terms of your pancreas screaming for mercy -- Alcohol is about the worst culprit out there.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby SoMo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:10 am

I'll trade veg oil and processed foods for hooch, all day long
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Jimbo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:52 am

Bob Loblaw wrote:Unfortunate that in terms of your pancreas screaming for mercy -- Alcohol is about the worst culprit out there.


Also true. However at the turn of the 20th century there was alcohol, and folks were not dying of these diseases like today. So I'll take a little of the bad, with more of the good. We all have our vices. Dont need the gooberment and big biz to fuck over the delicate balance of good and evil Im trying to maintain here.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Bob Loblaw » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:16 am

Well, to be fair about the "good old days", at the turn of the century, life expectancy was 48 years. Sure, lots of things contributed to that - but heart disease was probably not so much uncommon as it was undiagnosed. I agree that most of the advice we are getting is wrong. But to say people were thriving, not sure about that. There are simply no comparable statistics.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Jimbo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:33 am

True, life expectancy has risen. Medicine and the Pharmacological industry have found ways to keep your arteries sorta clear, and your heart sorta pumping, and your other parts sorta functioning, because THAT IS HOW THEY MAKE MONEY. And the longer they keep you in that state the better for their quarterly earnings report.

Fat, sick and nearly dead, but not quite dead, is exactly where they want you. No money in healthy people or dead people.

Sorry gang for going so far off topic.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby DAD300 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:53 pm

"Fat, sick and nearly dead, but not quite dead, is exactly where they want you."

Not if they had any foresight. In Society, there is nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose!
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Propaniac » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:16 pm

But if the man with nothing to lose can't walk 10 feet without crapping himself, he doesn't pose much of a threat. :D
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby bearriver » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:27 pm

Nothin more dangerous than a human brain...
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby SoMo » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:12 am

bearriver wrote:Nothin more dangerous than a human brain...

Especially one that thinks for itself!!
I'm starting to see that most here are above average in thinking and use of grey matter. A cheap hobby this isn't, a great and worthwhile one absolutely.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Oldvine Zin » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:41 pm

Jimbo wrote:The worst thing subsidized corn is doing to us is KILLING US. Subsidized corn has made processed corn oil, and HFCS so cheap it has become ubiquitous in ALL our foods. Its subsidized because Monsanto and ConAgra OWN the USDA. And grain is the base of our food pyramid because Monsanto and ConAgra OWN the USDA, it has no business in our food pyramid, its not a paleolithic food like vegetables, fruits, nuts and fish/meat. At the turn of the twentieth century diabetes rates were low, cardiovascular disease was almost unheard of and obesity rates were a tiny fraction of what we're suffering today. Lard and butter were the darlings of the home cook, the primary source of fat in the diet. This was before the processed vegetable oil industry skyrocketed, corn and canola oil and high fructose corn syrup hadn’t yet been invented and folks were thriving in good health on eggs fried in bacon fat, fruit pies with lard-crust and foods fried in grass-fed tallow. Now we're all obese and dying of diseases like diabetes and cardiovascular problems. But the big food companies have everyone convinced (manipulated), via our stupid ass government (puppets) that lard and butter are bad and you should eat processed oils. And starches and HFCS in all our food now spikes our insulin response, so the sugars and simple starches are stored as fat, and we march toward diabetes as our pancreas screams for mercy.

sorry, topic cranks me up.


An old thread but I just read it, so new to me.

My father,( an old Italian immigrant) would always lecture me about the evils of Monsanto- that was in the late 60's. +1 Jimbo!!
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Alchemist75 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:31 am

My 10 cents here is just this:
The only possible benefit of using ethanol as fuel is that it is a renewable resource as where petrol isn't. Now that being said it still isn't the best renewable fuel out there. The concept of the hydrogen engine probably offers greater promise in this regard as it has the ability to run on water effectively and the by product of the oxygen/hydrogen combustion is of course water...now I don't know how easy such an engine would be to build or how efficient it truly is but it seems one potentially better idea.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby HDNB » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:18 am

Alchemist75 wrote:My 10 cents here is just this:
The only possible benefit of using ethanol as fuel is that it is a renewable resource as where petrol isn't. Now that being said it still isn't the best renewable fuel out there. The concept of the hydrogen engine probably offers greater promise in this regard as it has the ability to run on water effectively and the by product of the oxygen/hydrogen combustion is of course water...now I don't know how easy such an engine would be to build or how efficient it truly is but it seems one potentially better idea.


while a hydrogen engine would be awesome, they seem to be very complex or we would have one by now. they say transport and storage is the problem here, and possibly the manufacture of hydrogen too?

do you really think petrol is non-renewable? i'm of the opinion that the earth is a living organism and oil is just one of it's biological functions...much like a pimple on a person. the earth simply takes in carbon, and exudes oil as a byproduct of it's respiration.
Oil sands in Alberta are a naturally occurring "oil spill" . the shit literally oozes out of the ground. we are doing our best to clean up this oil spill, but the propagandists have the world believing it is a man made ecological disaster area.

it's all posturing for the almighty buck.

Like Jimbo's rant earlier in this thread, it's more about corruption and pocket lining at a level so much higher than we mortal men can even fathom....we'll get a hydrogen engine as soon as they can figure out how to make more money from that than from oil... and at the same time keep the working man enslaved to toe the social societies line.

oil is so entrenched in our economy that if it falters, apocalyptic chaos would ensue.

as far as affordable ethanol goes, a fuel plant is profitable at 1.60 per litre. that's prolly around 5 bucks USD currently. the benefit of using ethanol as an alternative fuel from an environmental standpoint is bullshit. it's farmed and transported with diesel fuel and manufactured with natural gas. matter cannot be created nor destroyed, the impact is identical, but keeping people working and paying taxes so that polite society doesn't devolve into chaos means some are farmers and some are truck drivers and some make ethanol.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby jonnys_spirit » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:03 am

And tankfulky just about all of em drink ethanol. People fuel.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Alchemist75 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:06 pm

It's abundant though not renewable in any reasonable time period, it took millions of years to form from decaying plant matter. The hydrogen engine was just an example of one potentially renewable fuel source. Hydrogen could be manufactured using hydro electric, geo thermal, solar or wind power so in theory it could be very efficient. I believe a few working prototypes have been made but either there are efficiency problems or profit mongers aren't seeing enough profit potential in it. It all boils down to making a buck at the end of the day though I tend to be of the quality over quantity mindset myself. Hopeless idealist.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby kiwi Bruce » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:25 pm

Alchemist75 wrote:The concept of the hydrogen engine probably offers greater promise in this regard as it has the ability to run on water effectively and the by product of the oxygen/hydrogen combustion is of course water...now I don't know how easy such an engine would be to build
There used to be miles of interweb info on engine conversion...how to run on the hydrolysis and burn oxygen/hydrogen as fuel...it died with the modern on-board computer...(did you know it's a felony to mess with one and change the government set fuel settings.) Anyway, I went to a tree-hugger convention some years back, when this could have become the next "big thing" and had a go round with an Earth-worshiper who informed me that water vapor is a GREEN HOUSE GAS ! I yelled at her "LIKE CLOUDS!" and doubled over laughing...I got kicked out.
Last edited by kiwi Bruce on Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby Alchemist75 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:37 pm

Nice! That's up there with the time I got kicked out of church camp when I was 13. I don't know if hydrogen engines will ever really be a thing but they are one potential idea for a renewable fuel source. Honestly the battery powered electric cars are a good step in the right direction. I'd not be suprised if they eventually figured out some means of creating fusion powered engines....100's of years after I'm dead but hey, human kind has a way of manifesting anything it can dream up. Just takes time, tools and a few physicists....maybe a sci-fi author or two.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby HDNB » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:37 pm

Alchemist75 wrote:Nice! That's up there with the time I got kicked out of church camp when I was 13. I don't know if hydrogen engines will ever really be a thing but they are one potential idea for a renewable fuel source. Honestly the battery powered electric cars are a good step in the right direction. I'd not be suprised if they eventually figured out some means of creating fusion powered engines....100's of years after I'm dead but hey, human kind has a way of manifesting anything it can dream up. Just takes time, tools and a few physicists....maybe a sci-fi author or two.


i may have sounded like an oil monger, but hey, i'm Albertan. It makes the world go around here! The Mr. Fusion engine may not be so far off the way technology advances these days. I think we would get there a lot faster if they spent the profits of the oil usage to drive the alternative energy ideas instead of pissing it away on whatever other coked up ideas they waste money on.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby jonnys_spirit » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:04 pm

Electric is pretty good for cars because fusion in your engine is sorta like cooking a still on gas without a condenser. With electric it’s just a battery and those can be recharged with fusion generated electricity / solar elec / hydroelectric / or feckin gerbils.

Now, I dare you to even try to imagine a cute little gerbil without thinking of Richard Gere.

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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby kiwi Bruce » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:51 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:I had a go round with an Earth-worshiper who informed me that water vapor is a GREEN HOUSE GAS ! I yelled at her "LIKE CLOUDS!" and doubled over laughing...I got kicked out.

I think I used her wrong pronoun...I called her "Miss" instead of "Yo Bitch" which of course is her correct pronoun ! :lol:
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby kiwi Bruce » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:05 pm

As a quick aside...The question was "Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?"
Commercial Ethanol that's used in fuel comes from ethane a gas, a byproduct of the petroleum industry, it's a waste product...it costs to store the stuff, so most of it was just burned off with the methane. However it costs only 0.002 cents a gal to convert to fuel alcohol, the Government subsidy is a nickel a gal (5cents) it does help reduce NOX emissions, but the big factor here is using a waste product...that had been a pollutant...to help clean up pollution, and make a modest profit at the same time...WIN WIN WIN...not to bad in my book.
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Re: Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?

Postby HDNB » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:55 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:As a quick aside...The question was "Does it really cost this much to make ethanol?"
Commercial Ethanol that's used in fuel comes from ethane a gas, a byproduct of the petroleum industry, it's a waste product...it costs to store the stuff, so most of it was just burned off with the methane. However it costs only 0.002 cents a gal to convert to fuel alcohol, the Government subsidy is a nickel a gal (5cents) it does help reduce NOX emissions, but the big factor here is using a waste product...that had been a pollutant...to help clean up pollution, and make a modest profit at the same time...WIN WIN WIN...not to bad in my book.


that's interesting. i never knew about that process, i thought it was from corn and wheat. the guy close to me that sells at 1.60 a itr makes from wheat.
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