Hybrid monster

[gtst77]

I started with a still spirits turbo 500 still, 28l boiler with a 2"x24" collumn with internal reflux coil.
The collumn is packed with 100g of copper saddles and around 970g of ceramic saddles.
It produced about 1 litre an hour @ 92%.

I needed a faster output so i bought a 66L euro still that had an extended 2" collumn. I then adapted the t500 collumn to fit the euro boiler.

I ran it up tonight for the first time, running both 2kw elements in the boiler, i found i hade to increase the water flow rate from the original 375ml per min for the t500 coliumn to over 1.2lpm to accomodate for the extra element and wash ammound (i assume).
I got 2.27L per hour @91% (after temperature correction) which i am really impressed with, especially for a 2" collumn.

Has anyone ever heard of a similar flow rate from a 2" collumn? would love to hear from anyone that has.

[Manback]

Boy you spent some dollars on them..

What was your starting %?

[Braz]

Nope.

I get around a half liter per hour from my 2" Boka at 94+%.

It is just my opinion, but I think you'll get better booze if you slow it down and try to get the ABV up some. I think you will get better heads separation that way. When my output drops to 92-93% I am done and into tails. It is a very sharp cutoff.

[rad14701]

Collecting 2.27L per hour @91% is going to induce a lot of smearing unless you have a miracle still on your hands... While it is easy to hold most reflux columns at 88% or higher at high take off rates there is a trade off... The closer to 95% you get the cleaner your spirits will be, but at the expense of take off rate... It is up to your personal preference to determine where in this range you want to be... At the moment you are taking off at pot still rates and most likely pot still purity... Even my 1.25" reflux column will pull off at 88% - 90% at almost that take off rate - in pot still mode...

You never did mention any column temperatures, which helps tell the tale concerning spirit purity from a cleanliness standpoint...

[gtst77]

Boy you spent some dollars on them..

What was your starting %?

Yeh it has cost me quite a bit, i think im starting with about 15%, how do i tell for sure?

[gtst77]

Nope.

I get around a half liter per hour from my 2" Boka at 94+%.

It is just my opinion, but I think you'll get better booze if you slow it down and try to get the ABV up some. I think you will get better heads separation that way. When my output drops to 92-93% I am done and into tails. It is a very sharp cutoff.

yeh 94% is rather high, if i slow it down alot i can achieve that, but its just so painfully slow, i have 120L of wash to get through eash time so i cant sit there for days distilling it.
Btw does anyone know if there are any problems related to stacking of yeasts and sugar etc, as i usually quadruple everything to make my 120l wash

[gtst77]

Collecting 2.27L per hour @91% is going to induce a lot of smearing unless you have a miracle still on your hands... While it is easy to hold most reflux columns at 88% or higher at high take off rates there is a trade off... The closer to 95% you get the cleaner your spirits will be, but at the expense of take off rate... It is up to your personal preference to determine where in this range you want to be... At the moment you are taking off at pot still rates and most likely pot still purity... Even my 1.25" reflux column will pull off at 88% - 90% at almost that take off rate - in pot still mode...

You never did mention any column temperatures, which helps tell the tale concerning spirit purity from a cleanliness standpoint...

What is smearing? i am kind of new to this hobby so still have alot to learn. I used to keep it to around 92.5% but i needed to speed things up so sacrificed purity a bit, and i didnt really seem to notice any diference in taste? I keep my collumn temp to 78.3, and i might let it goto 78.4 towards the end of the run, im stll getting over 90% at 78.4 collumn temp. What do you think is the ideal temp?

[wildrover]

What is smearing?

The art of distilling is achieving the separation you want between heads, hearts and tails. If you get unnecessary amounts of heads spreading into hearts and unnecessary hearts into tails then you'll have "smearing". Where you're trying to avoid the headache components and off flavors of heads, and the deep portion of the tails having off flavors.

[beelah]

Here is a link that will give you some good information on cuts and the concept of "smearing" http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=13261

[rad14701]

The boiling point of ethanol is 78C at 95.6% purity, the best you can get with our stills, and every .1C is 1% ABV which means that 78.4C will yield just over 91% ABV... But at high take off rates, combined with a low reflux ratio, you will get smearing or the cuts... What this means is that you will be dragging heads and tails into your hearts... Now, foreshots and heads can be pretty much eliminated by letting the column run at equilibrium for an extended period of time and then removing them at a very slow take off rate... Then, after allowing the column to equalize again, you can take off your hearts at a slow enough rate so as not to pull tails right along with the hearts... Any temperature over 78C has the potential of allowing tails into the hearts...

That's about as far as I'll go into the theory here... The site has plenty of great in-depth theory of distillation already so I'll leave it up to you to investigate further...

I was glued to the tube while the others were posting...

[squidd]

gtst77,

What material is that white flange made of ?
And that of your product tube ?
And that of the tube from the column to the condenser ?

squidd

[gtst77]

The boiling point of ethanol is 78C at 95.6% purity, the best you can get with our stills, and every .1C is 1% ABV which means that 78.4C will yield just over 91% ABV... But at high take off rates, combined with a low reflux ratio, you will get smearing or the cuts... What this means is that you will be dragging heads and tails into your hearts... Now, foreshots and heads can be pretty much eliminated by letting the column run at equilibrium for an extended period of time and then removing them at a very slow take off rate... Then, after allowing the column to equalize again, you can take off your hearts at a slow enough rate so as not to pull tails right along with the hearts... Any temperature over 78C has the potential of allowing tails into the hearts...

That's about as far as I'll go into the theory here... The site has plenty of great in-depth theory of distillation already so I'll leave it up to you to investigate further...

I was glued to the tube while the others were posting...

Please explain to me about hearts and tails, im not quite sure what that means, i assume you when you say hearts or tails your talking about distillate that doesnt taste too good? I always throw away the first 50-100ml of distillate (this being the heads??) i dont get anything under 90.5% even at the end of the run, and it is still good tasting at that, so how can it be a tail? I think my reflux ratio is probably quite high as im running 4kw of elements and almost maxing out my reflux coil. and at the end of the run it exhausts itself and the distillate stops flowing.

[gtst77]

gtst77,

What material is that white flange made of ?
And that of your product tube ?
And that of the tube from the column to the condenser ?

squidd

Im not sure what the flange is made of, its the standard euro 60 flange, its some kind of plastic, not very good if you ask me as it gets rather soft at running temp.
When you say product tube do you mean the spirit/condensate outlet? its "Ledathene" - Polyethylene Beverage Tubing, here is the link http://www.aircontrols.co.nz/products/p ... -leda.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
The collumn connects to the condensor via the plastic top on the collumn (black) which the condenser has a tube welded to it and snug fits into a hole in the plastic body. not the tube you see, that is the water outlet from the condensor to the inlet of the reflux coil

[squidd]

gtst77,

There are basically 4 materials that are deemed acceptable, in the hot and/or high ABV alcohol path, for this hobby on HD forums.

They are: Copper, Stainless Steel, music grade Cork, and Glass.
Teflon is possibly a 5th as a sealing gasket material.

It is believed that hot and/or high ABV alcohol liquid and/or vapor will cause unwanted plastics chemicals to leech into the product. Plastics are therefore unacceptable. Does'nt matter if they are so-called "food grade".

No tests that we know of have shown otherwise.

The same would apply to the thermometer rubber (?) stopper at the top of your column.

There are numerous posts on the subject.
Your call. Stay safe.

squidd

[rad14701]

gtst77, STOP...

Don't do one more thing until you have done plenty of research...!!! Nothing...!!! You've passed beyond being naive to just plain dangerous...!!!

Now that I have your undivided attention, let's break it down...

You have plastics in your still that get soft during the distillation process... What is being leeched out of that plastic into the spirits you and anyone you share them with...??? Don't drink any of the spirits you have remaining... Dump them out...

You don't know what cuts are... This is part of basic distillation theory and you should know it before distilling any potable spirits...

You are running 4KW of power into a reflux still... You are guessing at the reflux ratio... Again, basic reflux distillation theory would clear up this aspect of running a reflux column...

There is no need going further here... I urge you, once again, to stop all activity until you have done enough research here in these forums as well as the entire parent site to know what you are doing wrong and have a plan of action to correct those issues... Don't simply try to find information about what has been discussed here... We consider safety to be a serious issue and anything you don't know can be considered dangerous... You need to know a lot more than you could ever possibly be spoon fed and we're about to go that route...

And just to make it clear, I'm not mad at you in any way, I'm fear for your safety and the safety of those around you... So it is with the utmost of concern that I say "Read, Dammit, Read"... And don't ask what to read, read it all... You'll learn more than you expect and even find answers to questions you don't even know you have...

NUFF SAID...

p.s. - To any other novices reading this, if any of this sounds like it may pertain to you, by all means follow this same advice...

[gtst77]

gtst77,

There are basically 4 materials that are deemed acceptable, in the hot and/or high ABV alcohol path, for this hobby on HD forums.

They are: Copper, Stainless Steel, music grade Cork, and Glass.
Teflon is possibly a 5th as a sealing gasket material.

It is believed that hot and/or high ABV alcohol liquid and/or vapor will cause unwanted plastics chemicals to leech into the product. Plastics are therefore unacceptable. Does'nt matter if they are so-called "food grade".

No tests that we know of have shown otherwise.

The same would apply to the thermometer rubber (?) stopper at the top of your column.

There are numerous posts on the subject.
Your call. Stay safe.

squidd

yeh i do tend to agree, but its a commerically made product which they have made and sold thousands of so i can imagine health and saftey wouldnt alow them to do anything unsafe.

[Manback]

Don't stress it too much buddy, I'm with you on this one. Plus.. I put so much other shit into my body.. a bit of plastic would have to be one of the safer things

You in NZ?

[gtst77]

Just a message to anyone that is concerned about the products/materials used in my still. Everything on this still is either from the commercially made and producted "euro 60" or the commercially made and produced still spirits turbo 500 still, therefore they are governed by health and saftey regulations to only produce and sell "safe" products. The only modification i have done is put a t500 collumn on a euro 60 boiler, i have not used any new materials to do this, only what comes with the original stills. Therefore material wise nothing can be unsafe. As far as the distillation itself and how it is used, that is up to the user and is up for debate exactly what must and must no be done, but i will mention that in the user manual for the t500 it says to collect the heads and discard, everything else is safe to drink, and i do not believe that is a lie, they would not be aloud to say that if it was not. As far as taste goes that is what i am asking input on, as that is the only variable here.

[gtst77]

Don't stress it too much buddy, I'm with you on this one. Plus.. I put so much other shit into my body.. a bit of plastic would have to be one of the safer things

You in NZ?

haha yeh i know what you mean. Yeh im in auckland, you?

[blanikdog]

Goodness me.

Stay Safe

[Manback]

Christchurch bro. Spend a fair bit of time in akl one way n another though.

You ever wanna take ya stilling to the next level and get a ss VM or LM.. look me up

[rad14701]

Just a message to anyone that is concerned about the products/materials used in my still. Everything on this still is either from the commercially made and producted "euro 60" or the commercially made and produced still spirits turbo 500 still, therefore they are governed by health and saftey regulations to only produce and sell "safe" products. The only modification i have done is put a t500 collumn on a euro 60 boiler, i have not used any new materials to do this, only what comes with the original stills. Therefore material wise nothing can be unsafe. As far as the distillation itself and how it is used, that is up to the user and is up for debate exactly what must and must no be done, but i will mention that in the user manual for the t500 it says to collect the heads and discard, everything else is safe to drink, and i do not believe that is a lie, they would not be aloud to say that if it was not. As far as taste goes that is what i am asking input on, as that is the only variable here.

Who feeds you this bullshit...??? Do you really think the people manufacturing these things have actually had them tested and approved...??? Your false notions have great potential to harm yourself and others...

You yourself stated that the plastic gets soft when exposed to high temperature high proof alcohol vapor and liquid, did you not...??? And that doesn't throw up a red flag...??? Stop being foolishly naive...

Now, seriously, if you just want to dismiss the advice given here casually then perhaps you should be finding a new forum to help guide you along where folks don't have any concerns regarding the personal safety of you and those who may drink the spirits you are and will continue to be producing... If you're the expert and don't need our help then we'd be more than willing to wipe any signs of your previous existence from these forums... Is that clear enough for you...???

[The Baker]

Just a message to anyone that is concerned about the products/materials used in my still.
snip
they are governed by health and safety regulations to only produce and sell "safe" products.

So was thalidomide.

[Coaster]

@ gtst77,

I wonder why Governments issue “Safety Recalls” of numerous so-called “Safe Products” if those products were in fact safe for consumer use.

Regards,
Coaster

[Bushman]

but i will mention that in the user manual for the t500 it says to collect the heads and discard, everything else is safe to drink, and i do not believe that is a lie, they would not be aloud to say that if it was not. As far as taste goes that is what i am asking input on, as that is the only variable here.

Most of us here like to drink from the hearts, if you want to drink tails you might as well buy your whiskey commercially. Although tails are safe to drink most would say that they wouldn't mix it with the hearts with the exception it is hard not to have a small amount blend with the hearts while doing your cuts.