I ROBOT

[guittarmaster]

nice! I have to say, you do nice work MR. I can't wait to hear how she run. by the way, what do you do with all of your stills after you make a new one?

GM

[Odin]

MR,

This is getting freaky ...!

On the other hand, the idea of working with consecutive spheres is interesting. I am wondering how it would work without packing as well. The reason for this is that - on the Dutch little sister of this site - we just did some comparisons between potstills. It turned out the alambic with an onion could give an increadible passive reflux percentage. Just due to the "onion" on top of the helmet. Calculations with the potstill purity calculator on the parent site showed it mus be like 90 to 95% when run slowly. Pretty much making it a double distillation device at those slow speeds (and with the onion in place). At higher speeds and at higher ABV's this advantage would deminish by the way. Curious as to how yours works, MR.

Odin.

[emptyglass]

Merry Christmas guys !! He has to make a few deliveries.

Saftey first!
He needs a helmet.

[Bushman]

MR,

This is getting freaky ...!

On the other hand, the idea of working with consecutive spheres is interesting. I am wondering how it would work without packing as well. The reason for this is that - on the Dutch little sister of this site - we just did some comparisons between potstills. It turned out the alambic with an onion could give an increadible passive reflux percentage. Just due to the "onion" on top of the helmet. Calculations with the potstill purity calculator on the parent site showed it mus be like 90 to 95% when run slowly. Pretty much making it a double distillation device at those slow speeds (and with the onion in place). At higher speeds and at higher ABV's this advantage would deminish by the way. Curious as to how yours works, MR.

Odin.

What you’re saying Odin, is he might be able to beat his already incredibly fast 2-1/2 hr run time!

[Odin]

"Au contraire, mon frere!" I will try and make a bit more sense. An Alambic with onion, we found out, gives an increadible passive reflux. More "onions" on top of each other should increase this. But if you rum it like an "Alambic on steroids", you will have to run it slow, very slow and without dephlag or packing. It would off course be no more than an improved potstill with slightly better cuts possible, due to higer abv.

Odin.

[Bushman]

"Au contraire, mon frere!" I will try and make a bit more sense. An Alambic with onion, we found out, gives an increadible passive reflux. More "onions" on top of each other should increase this. But if you rum it like an "Alambic on steroids", you will have to run it slow, very slow and without dephlag or packing. It would off course be no more than an improved potstill with slightly better cuts possible, due to higer abv.

Odin.

OK, I follow you MR has 3" diameter openings between the balls so it would probably run a bit slower than his 4" flute. The SS bowls are a lot cheaper to build if you have the talent than using a solid pipe will be interesting to here his results.

[mash rookie]

Seriously, I don't know how you come up with these ideas

It is a sickness. I can’t help myself. I wake up with a new idea every morning.
I really does make it difficult to get my daily work done when I get distracted by some crazy idea or new invention.

OK, I follow you MR has 3" diameter openings between the balls so it would probably run a bit slower than his 4" flute. The SS bowls are a lot cheaper to build if you have the talent than using a solid pipe will be interesting to here his results.

BM, What Odin refers to is the natural increase in reflux just using a single open onion ball on a pot still. That is where I got the concept about vapor speed change. I dissagree that I will have to run slow.

Mine will be much higher performance by having four expansion chambers filled with packing. Because of the packing it will not run like a pot still. It will run like a column.

I expect to be able to run it quite hard and get high ABV at very fast speeds. I don’t think it will behave like a three inch. I believe it will behave like a six inch.

My reasoning is that I think that I will have to push a lot of vapor just to fill the chambers and keep vapor moving up. Where a three inch would produce lower ABV at that speed, vapor will slow and reflux through the packing at each ball.

[Odin]

You will be able to run it much faster than an Alambic, because of the dephlag, I guess. I was just making comparisons with an onion headed Alambic, which has to be run slow in order to obtain maximum reflux. With your dephlag on top, you can manage reflux and increase spead. I think.

Odin.

[mash rookie]

You will be able to run it much faster than an Alambic, because of the dephlag, I guess. I was just making comparisons with an onion headed Alambic, which has to be run slow in order to obtain maximum reflux. With your dephlag on top, you can manage reflux and increase spead. I think.

Odin.

Not just the dephlag but the packing and multiple balls. I understood your post and it was correct about the affect of the onion. That is why I built what I built. I had noted that I had seen the onion ball on many small commercial stills. The only theoretical sense I made out of it was that vapor speed would slow before moving into the plate system or lyne arm. I reasoned that allowing the vapor to slow or linger must have a positive affect or they wouldnt be building them. Smart guys do things for a reason.
My thoughts turned to how packing produces reflux at such a high level that a term was coined "HETP" After being disappointed with my flutes performance I am returning to packing and how to best use it.

Considering packing, Vapor speed changes in spheres and the thoughts of lingering dripping vapor in packing got me to this design. The artistic twist is just me. I couldn’t help myself. It would have been much easier to build soldering it all together and using one condenser. But What the hell. If you are going to do something, go all the way.

Hmmm... Very similar to the variable thumper concept I have been kicking around that would use small SS pet food bowls... Actually even considered using very small SS cups like Au Jus Sauce, Cocktail Sauce, etc., would be served in... All but the robot part, that is...

Sorry if I stole your idea Rad. That is what you get for letting me read your mind from 3000 mile away. Okay now knock off what you are thinking now or I will tell your kids.

[frozenthunderbolt]

For anyone trying a build like (like me) a note on cutting the bottoms out of the bowls.

I spent $50 on a good Baco (Swedish) made hole saw - used in my drill press and was spit useless.

Went and bought stainless cutting blades for my jig saw - worse than useless; they buckled the metal.

Used my middle of the line tin snips (right hand curve) and a starter hole in the center - beautiful - perfect cut.

[mash rookie]

FB I agree tin snips are the only way to go. The bowls are such light gage that you could almost use scissors. I would also advise that you solder everything.
I chose to use the bolts for the look. They are proving difficult to seal. If I were to do it again I would solder everything and solder the nuts on for decoration.

I recommend soldering the bottoms together, installing your packing then soldering the balls closed. It will be much easier and faster than bolting.

When silver soldering stainless be careful to use indirect heat and tin your surfaces before the flux burns off. Once surfaces are coated they are easily mated and will flow to each other well with water based flux.

My top and bottom connections are hard silver soldered assemblies. Once built they are easily soft silver soldered to the bowls.

Good Luck!

I might run this baby saturday if I have time. I have a batch of UJ that should be ready to go.

[mash rookie]

nice! I have to say, you do nice work MR. I can't wait to hear how she run. by the way, what do you do with all of your stills after you make a new one?

GM

I have a BIG toy box! And it is filling up.

[rad14701]

I use tin snips to cut out the hole for SS sink drains in bowls... I drill just enough small holes to be able to get the tip of the snips in to start cutting and then just snip away... Virtually no filing or sanding required...

[Odin]

"Tip of the snips"?

Is that like "top of the pops"?

And when you say: "SS sink drains in bowls"

Do you mean: "Drink rain from bowls"?

Or: "Shit its "Dancing with wolves""?

Sorry, my English is depleted.

I now go for a short holiday to Hungary.

MR, don't you dare post your results before I am back.

Otherwise I will get you the sack.

Don't know if that makes any sense,

So I will just shut my fence.

Odin.

[rad14701]

@Odin



Enjoy the Holidays...

[frozenthunderbolt]

FB I agree tin snips are the only way to go. The bowls are such light gage that you could almost use scissors. I would also advise that you solder everything.
I chose to use the bolts for the look. They are proving difficult to seal. If I were to do it again I would solder everything and solder the nuts on for decoration.

I recommend soldering the bottoms together, installing your packing then soldering the balls closed. It will be much easier and faster than bolting.
DAMN - i just bought $50 worth of bolts!I was going to partialy close them then wrap the gap with PTFE tape and cinch them down . . .
When silver soldering stainless be careful to use indirect heat and tin your surfaces before the flux burns off. Once surfaces are coated they are easily mated and will flow to each other well with water based flux.
Cheers - this is good to know - I'm going to get hold of Kiwistiller sometime soon and get some silfoz off him which should help
My top and bottom connections are hard silver soldered assemblies. Once built they are easily soft silver soldered to the bowls.

Good Luck!

I might run this baby saturday if I have time. I have a batch of UJ that should be ready to go.

Choice! Cant wait to hear about it!

[mash rookie]

I'm going to get hold of Kiwistiller sometime soon and get some silfoz off him which should help

I have never had any luck hard silver soldering stainless. Soft silver from the hardware store work well if you buy the correct flux from your welding supplier. I am sure they would have soft silver too.

[frozenthunderbolt]

I'm going to get hold of Kiwistiller sometime soon and get some silfoz off him which should help

I have never had any luck hard silver soldering stainless. Soft silver from the hardware store work well if you buy the correct flux from your welding supplier. I am sure they would have soft silver too.

Thank you for un-stuffing things before i had the chance to stuff them up! I will just use my soft stuff then! You rock MR

[mash rookie]

No problem FB. Hard silver should be part of your tool kit. I love hard silver and prefer to use where I can. It is so strong the you can make your own tee’s and adapters before soft soldering the final parts together. Almost as strong as TIG welding but faster and easier.
(except for guys like Ozone)
Ask away. I will do the best I can to make it easy for you.
MR

[mash rookie]

I found a little time yesterday and put Robot on the boiler for leak testing. I have a couple of things to fix. The gaskets are sealing but I found a crack in one bowl and my cork for the thermometer will not seal at the bowl. (mouth) Both should be easy to fix. The crack should silver solder okay. I will solder in a copper coupler in the mouth. That will provide a better surface for a cork to seal to. Family day today. Maybe I will work on it tomorrow.
I have a batch of UJ ready to go. It will wait until I get Robot ready. Sometime in this next week I will do a cleaning run and load up with UJ.

MR

[Bushman]

Merry Christmas MR, I have some fients put aside for a cleaning run when we get the new rig done. Enjoy your day with the family!

[mash rookie]

I ran the Robot yesterday. First a cleaning run with feints then 12 gallons of UJ.
I have to admit that it did not perform as I had expected. Respectable but not what I had hoped for.

I was chasing leaks during the cleaning run that drove me crazy. I had boiled water during leak testing and repaired the leaks that I found but alcohol is even harder to seal.There is something to be said for the KISS system. I knew that the more complicated the build the more problems to solve. After I got things sealed up I loaded up the UJ

I had a hard time dialing things in as will be always the case with a new rig. My goal was to run it as fast as possible with the highest ABV possible.

I ran at full power as I would with my flute. After finally getting the reflux condenser and product condenser dialed in I took off 750ml of heads at 87% I hit 90% for a few minutes but it was coming off real slow.

The next 1500ml at 87% took 47 min. I turned down reflux coolant a little and the following 1500 ml came off at 84% at a rocket fast 30min. When I started in to the tails I turned off the reflux condenser and collected down to 30%

I am not sure if my electric can push enough vapor for the speed I want. My reflux condenser is too small. I had to use a lot of water flow for it to function. Even if I could push more vapor, I would have to build a larger condenser. I can hit high ABV but not at the speed I want.

The Liebig condensers are too inefficient for fast speeds. There is not enough vapor surface area. My vent holes at the elbows would huff a little vapor if I did not keep a lot of water flowing. Any large builds I do will use shotgun condensers in the future.

I will let you know how the booze tastes in a few days.

[Odin]

Could you compress heads as in a flute? equilibrium and such?

[mash rookie]

Could you compress heads as in a flute? equilibrium and such?

I finally had a chance to do my tasting and blending. Yes Odin it did a good job of compressing heads. I think any still with a good reflux condenser will do that job if held at initial refluxing for a minimum of at least 30 minutes before starting take off.
My hearts were 170p and very clean tasting. That was at the speed I wanted. I was disappointed that I could not achieve 95% at that high speed. I build, live and learn. Someday I will offer all my art still for auction sale.
On to the next build or just my work. Last post on this one. Starting to get bored here.

[emptyglass]

You could add a shotgun condensor to each arm, go terminator style. Leave the leibigs in place, use them as plumbing.

You could even put glass ends on the shotguns, give it a gattling gun look.

It would at least let you run harder, perhaps. I'll leave the art to you...

Can you put a small gas burner under your boiler, like a camping style one? I don't know if your elements would let you do it, but it might give you the bit extra firepower needed to prove it can do it...?

[jus teasin]

Some people have way to much talent

JT

[OlympicMtDoo]

Just saw this thread, WOW MR, very nice

[ozone39]

"I will solder in a copper coupler in the mouth"

you do not read stuff like that every day...

[billybudd]

That is a work of art , very creative

[mash rookie]

That is a work of art , very creative

Thanks BB Check out my sey girl..
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p6911522