SPP Machine Begins

[Anthoney]

If I give up on the linear i will still use the solenoid rather than pneumatics. I have an actuator and it is noisy and shakes whatever it is attached to, plus you need a compressor; also noisy.

I think I may be able to get the linear working. It seems that clearance behind and between the blades was an issue. The end of the spp stream gets pushed during the cut. Sometimes it will catch somewhere and not snap back in time for the next cut. Then it is all placed wrong and jams. I have modified the exit on the linear rail and the wood behind it. Might work.

I also replaced the fixed blade but that got damaged by a tungsten carbide burr during the mods and when I went to replace it again I had problems getting it flat and fitting right. Think I have to remake the actual cutter again from scratch. Should be easier and quicker now I have done it a few times.

Here's a pic of the electronics installed. It works really well.

potted the hall effect device in a bit of 15mm copper with some silicone rubber.

I need to make a little cover for the live terminals on the SSR, I should really run an earth to the solenoid body as well. Everything still swings out with the two power sources unplugging from the gate. I am amazed at how well everything fits together without advance design work. It is made up as I go along yet each stage seems to fit the last through sheer serendipity.
Try and redo the cutter tomorrow.

[BigSwede]

Nice work Anthony. If you have to re-do the cutter, like you said, second time around always goes faster and better. I've been toying with the idea of silver brazing a carbide lathe insert to act as a cutter, and may try it one of these days, but my current blades are doing well.

[BigSwede]

I didn't think it would happen, but I'm approaching burn-out on this particular project, at least as far as the construction goes. Gonna make lots of SPP, because it's DONE! At last.

It kind of was done, except for the cut sensing. Like I said earlier, if I had planned for it better from the beginning, it would work, but as it was, the machine would run for 5 to 10 minutes, smooth as can be, then it'd jam up. I want to be able to walk away from it for a few minutes. So I went with the CG-4 timer, $17, and it has performed spectacularly well, doing exactly what we want.

Good bye, simplicity! To be fair, 85% of this has nothing to do with loop counting or cut sense, most of it is simply hardware to support the motor; variable speed, reverse, etc, And I'm dealing with three voltages in one machine, 120AC, 24VDC (motor), 8VDC for the cut SSR.

The box is a PVC junction box from a hardware store. Cutter SSR and PWM module is at the bottom. Lots of MOLEX connectors to connect the lid to the internals. I like being able to detach for maintenance.

In the lid is the counter, speed control, an E-stop switch, cutter enable, manual cut push button. The digital thing is a DC-DC converter to take 24VDC down to 8VDC.

Everything that goes into or out of the control box, I ended up using 3-pin microphone plugs and jacks. Tried to keep it neat.

And that's a wrap on this beast! Did quite a few other subtle improvements. I'm going to fire it up tomorrow and continue production so I can get back to what brought me here... My still!! She's been put aside and is NOT happy!

[Bob Loblaw]

I'll take 3/4 gallon . With all that work it would be a shame not to drive your cost down through more production...

[waster]

I'll take 3/4 gallon . With all that work it would be a shame not to drive your cost down through more production...

+1

[Johnny6]

BigSwede, I've really enjoyed this thread. Thanks for sharing. To really finish it off right, I'd love to see a picture of a pail full of SPP, or even better, a video of it running.

[Anthoney]

Well done. Looks very professional. A long run should be trouble free now.
Had a busy weekend so just getting back to mine.

[rad14701]

BigSwede, this topic serves a good example of the talents that HD members bring to the table... While you could have jury rigged a simple SPP machine together you went all out and constructed a very professional stand-alone SPP machine that could be used for commercial production... If you decide to offer SPP for sale I am sure more than a few members would be interested in acquiring some... Great job...!!!

[BigSwede]

Great job...!!!

Rad, coming from you, that means a lot, TY everybody as well. I have enjoyed sharing this, and if it encourages more experimentation with this deluxe packing material, so much the better.

I've turned a couple of kilos of wire into my selected SPP strand, I call it my #4... One of the earliest bits I made. My challenge now is to determine what I will need in terms of packed 2" column to achieve near azeo. I love the fact that (hopefully) I won't need a 1.5 meter or longer scrubby packed column. I really am digging on compact stills that still perform like their bigger brothers. I have one of those inexpensive imported 2" glass and stainless column sections, that'll be on the bottom, maybe 8" tall, and I am thinking 18" of SPP on top of that, so maybe 26" of SPP before the valve. If that works, my still will be less than a meter tall, excluding the boiler. Hope it works.

Once my own rig is running, I will crank out SPP in some other sizes. One or two more pics to go.

[DAD300]

My 2" column is 30" with a scrubbie top and bottom, so about 24" of SPP (~20 plates) and makes azeo easily at 2 liters an hour.

[BigSwede]

My 2" column is 30" with a scrubbie top and bottom, so about 24" of SPP (~20 plates) and makes azeo easily at 2 liters an hour.

TWO LITERS an hour, 2" column... Nice!! Can't wait, and I hope to possibly pick your brain a bit once I finally get going. Your own SPP examples and pictures were an inspiration, and without them, I would probably have given up in the early stages. We owe you some thanks.

I think what I will do is start tall, have at the top of my column a wringing, make-shift ferrule that will allow me to cut the column down in portions... I want to explore and seek minimum height with a given SPP. Once done, the temporary ferrule gets soldered and permanent.

[BigSwede]

I know I haven't been posting much. Too much "real" work.

Thought this thread would fade, the machine was done, but the guillotine cutter I made, after a lot of effort, didn't hack it. About every 100th cut, even with a sharp new blade, the blade itself would jam up into the formed strand, and everything ground to a halt. I was whacking on the E-stop button way too much.

After this much effort, I wanted to make LOTS of SPP. As in multi-kilo batches. I had already made more than I could use, but it made no sense to stop here. So into the trash went the guillotine cutter.

The problem was simple... the guillotine had no mechanical advantage, no leverage. Tin snips work because of the leverage built into the mechanism, so I made a scissors-type cutter. One inch of solenoid movement equals 3/8" of cutter... big leverage.

In this picture, I'm holding the blade. The cutter body is to the right, and the feed hole for the SPP is upper right in the body.

Next two pics should explain it easily. The blue tape is simply supporting the solenoid wires so they don't fatigue and break.

Ready to cut, SPP goes into the bushing upper right...

CUT!!

Works PERFECTLY. So now I have a machine that counts loops, doesn't jam, cuts all day.

I took everything I'd learned about bit geometry and made a few new bits. These are making some killer SPP, visually at least.

[BigSwede]

So hopefully, this mother-<bleeper> is done. Truly done. It stopped being fun a while back, I want to get back to my still. I am going to take the suggestions made, try 2" at first, then try a 3" column with SPP. Throughput and a short profile is the goal.

With the mods permission, after I run a quantity off, I'd like to sell a bit, and it'll be as cheap as I can without giving it away. But that's AFTER my poor still sees the light of day. I'll post details later after I talk to the moderators, please no PM's yet.

For the fourth time, this beast is done. I hope!

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Very very nice. Well done.

[Anthoney]

Not just me then. I have been having similar problems trying to get reliable cuts. Tried a variety of things but it always seems to jam up eventually. If your precision engineered cutter has the same problem then it seems an even bigger solenoid would be needed to make this work.

May have to follow your example again and make a scissor cutter. I have the cobalt drill ready to drill the tool steel.
What are you cutting against, the edge of the bushing?

[DAD300]

I Remember someone saying, "Winding this stuff is the easy part. Cutting it is magic!"

[FullySilenced]

The meat cutter/grinder blade and plate look like it cuts SPP pretty dang well... once the speeds are coordinated... those blade are sometimes carbide inserted as well

[Bob Loblaw]

BigSwede -

Looking at the finished machine and the finished product, I think I'm gettin' a little man-crush going.

[BigSwede]

Haha, Thanks Bob, Men like machines, that's the way it goes.

Carbide - tried it. Wasted a whole day grinding a small carbide insert to 45 degrees, brazing it onto a brand new cutter body, only to have it chip after making 50 nuggets. Total waste of time. Maybe it was the carbide grade I used, dunno.

Since then, I have been educating myself a bit on steels, tool steels and carbide. High speed steel blades at maybe 40 degrees is going to be optimum. Carbide is too brittle.

I priced HSS flat blanks. Get this, a 0.093" x 1/2" x 4" long T-15 HSS strip is $50!! YGBSM. On eBay, I found a variety of HSS and placed some orders. I'd like a blade that allows me to simply insert the HSS, clamp it down, and cut. When time to resharpen - it's inevitable - sharpen the edge and re-clamp.

The stationary part of the cut interface is a dead-hard O1 steel round, simply drilled through and held in place with a set screw. Easy-peasy to replace or sharpen.

Anthony - if you get the gumption, a scissors mechanism is probably the way to go. Didn't mean to lead you down a wrong path, I thought the guillotine would work all day. The only trick with a scissors cutter is to ensure the blade doesn't ride up and away from the cut plane, and that can be done with tight tolerances, or maybe a spreing pressure on the blade, pushing it down. And yes, a potent solenoid helps.

I love this new SPP geometry, looks good.

Best of all, I'm back to work on my still! Can't wait to FINALLY run her!

Edit - SUMMARY (hopefully) - SPP is NOT hard to make. It's hard to cut. If someone out there wants SPP for his still, go for it, it can be done without too much trouble. Then, sit in front of the TV with a handful of long strands and start cutting with good cutters until your hands cramp up. You'll have enough, soon enough.

[BigSwede]

Heads up for interested parties/still men... I'm selling SPP now, not looking to get rich, but maybe at least recoup a bit. Sticker shock, it's not crazy expensive, but not cheap either. If I can find a supply of stainless wire that works and does not cost $20+ per kilo, I can make it less expensive.

The machine can puke out a 2 lb spool of wire now with zero stoppages. FINALLY have the cutter doing what it should do. I'm adapting the machine to take a 10 lb spool, rather than the 2 lb spools I had been using. It's cheaper that way.

And I can make custom SPP up to 8.9mm diameter if interested.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =8&t=52064

Here's the blade that works... tool steel (A2) with a 25 degree primary relief angle, and cannot see in the picture, the actual cutting edge is beveled to 55 degrees relative to the cut plane. Higher angle at the cut means it tends to not make it through the material, a lower angle will chip if the steel is too hard, dent and dull if too soft.

And just for fun, the entire wasted day adapting a solid tungsten carbide insert into the old guillotine cutter that is now scrapped. This lovely bit of work cut about 6 nuggets before fatally chipping at the edge. Carbide is too brittle for this duty!

I sincerely hope some of the experimentation I did on making SPP will help guys make their own, especially bit/mandrel geometry. It was a long haul, but hopefully worth it.

[bearriver]

Mazel Tov.

This is exciting. It's been really enjoyable watching your progress. I was saving up for Odin's but that option has come to a close. Hopefully I'll be able to get the scratch together while your offer still stands Big Swede.

[Anthoney]

Good work Swede. I've been busy with other things but will finish mine soonish.
Still a stubborn side of me that wants to make a gullitine cutter work but your's is working so well now I will try to overcome that foolish urge.

[Scribbler]

Looks fabulous!! - I was going to suggest the same thing: wind a whole whack of wire, then hand cut it while watching tv.

[johnarms]

After reading this thread, had to try some. Got it today as well as a new 3" sight glass. This stuff looks awesome! made a retainer out of a sink strainer that happened to fit well. pics are just dry fitting it with a spare ferule, these of of the 2", have same thing for the 3" column. Going to clean the packing and hopefully set things up tomorrow for a run. .

[BigSwede]

Haha! LOVE the retainer! The SPP looks nice as well... that ziploc bag looks familiar!

I need to think outside the box and use more common materials, rather than fabricating everything.

I made my 3" retainer from a 1" section of 3" pipe, sawed off, then split, with a bit more material removed. When pinched together, it slides inside the 3" column.

That Cu ring was simply laid down on a piece of SS mesh; gobs of flux, heat, and solder, secured the ring to the mesh. Then, I simply scissored excess away from the ring. But I like this ^^ better.

Please let us know how it goes.

[Hound Dog]

Yea Swede, a couple bucks at Home Depot's plumbing isle can make life easier sometimes.

[waster]

I got some from Swede and did a cleaning run last week. Now I have Sugar Daddy panela wash almost fermented out.....

[BigSwede]

Again, I haven't had much feedback from experienced distillers. I have zero desire to sell an expensive material that does not dramatically improve over scrubbies and similar. Please let us know how it goes!

[johnarms]

running a wash now, but setup is different than before, sorry. should have an idea if its better. to be accurate I will do scrubbie then SPP with same configuration otherwise. have 200 ltrs of wash ready, just need time.

[humbledore]

BigSwede I have not given a ton of feedback because my testing I think was flawed. My initial impression is that it it did not give me the ABV that I got from lava rock. I was runnning a cleaning run, getting 94% ABV from the lava in the column, about a quart, and then shut it down and swapped in the SPP. When it came back up to temp I was getting 87% and pulled two more quarts. One thing I did wrong was no compacting of the SPP. I have since noticed it settled down quite a bit. I think anyone loading a column with this should shake or tap the column on the floor (gently) a good long while to vibrate and pack the SPP down. I was able to get considerably more in that way. I also switched over to SS ferrules so I took advantage of that and just made my column a few inches longer. 48" packed section on a 2" column was pulling 95%+ off of 11% wash. I liked that result better!