Pot Still that's still a pot

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En Bee
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Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

This is my pot:
myPot.jpg
It’s 8 qt Stainless Steel and apparently has an induction base (that I just realized was there tonight). I’ve had this for several years and after finding some pictures on this forum, I realized I could use this as the basis of my boiler for a Pot Still.

My requirements for a still were:
1. I can keep it out of sight when not in use because my apartment is pretty small.
2. It does not require me to make any permanent modifications to my pot because I still use it as a pot for cooking!

This is my Pot Still:
myPotStill.jpg
When collapsed, it compacts down to this (everything except the red vase which I'm just using to catch the water):
collapsed.jpg
This thing is pretty much exactly what I wanted! :thumbup: It’s not ready for any real runs yet because I’m still working on the seal. I’ll post more about this later. I don't have copper mesh yet but I'm confident it will fit within this package.

You can read about my misadventures in the construction of the cover and discovering that I’m terrible at soldering in my previous thread (thanks again to everyone for all the help!):
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69631

I purchased the copper parts from eBay and can't take credit for how nice they are.

Once I get the seal better figured out, I'm going to buy all of the cleaning supplies and do my cleaning runs. Then I can get the mash and fermenting equipment and try to make something. Also, I plan to share some more details about the parts I'm using but it's getting late here.
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Swedish Pride
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by Swedish Pride »

Nice little still lad.
Very similar to my first one, only yours is easier on the eye.

I found that paste was easier in the long run than a everlasting gasket, also make sure to fill it to the brim with lowwines, small pot like that you cuts are going to be more challenging than on a big still
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Kareltje
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by Kareltje »

Nice still indeed.

Contrary to Swedish Pride I think in this case I would prefer an everlasting gasket. They do not last for ever, but as I made mine of corrugated board and PTFE-tape, they are easy to replace after 100 runs.
I do use flour paste on my large still, where the helmet slides in the boiler.
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Expat
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by Expat »

Nice little setup En Bee!

Perfect example of fitting the hobby to your space, and well executed to boot. Well done! :thumbup:

Particularly enjoy the water line support attached to the cabinet :) Been there.

As with any gas powered rig, special attention required to ensure liquid or vapor doesn't get near the flame lol
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by fizzix »

I can say no more than what's been said. Beautiful!
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

After the steam run, I found a few leaks that I’m going to (hopefully) fix with PTFE tape in one way or another.

Cooling Inlet
inletLeak.jpg
There’s a small slow leak where I attach the tubing to the inlet of the cooling jacket. I confirmed that it’s coming from the tubing and not a leaky joint though. I’m going to try wrapping some PTFE tape around the connector to get a tighter fit. The outlet did not have any leaks.

Condenser Joint
condenserJointLeak.jpg
This leak doesn’t occur until after I turn the heat off and everything starts cooling off. The first steam run I did I used PTFE tape but I wanted to see if the joint would be sealed enough with it. I’m going to go back to using the PTFE and that problem should be solved.

Main Gasket
mainGasketLeak.jpg
The gasket between the cover and pot seems to leak on the upper side from multiple locations. I think this is because the lip of the cover is flat so it doesn’t dig into the gasket like the rim of the pot does. I’m going to try out a few different things with some PTFE tape to fix it. First, I’m going to try wrapping the gasket in PTFE tape so that the rim will hopefully seal up. If that doesn’t work, then I’m going to wrap the rim of the cover in PTFE and try again with and without the large gasket. If none of that works, then I’ll try a flour paste. I'm hoping to be able to try these different tests this weekend but I may not get to it until next week.

The water coming out of the condenser kind of came out in spurts instead of getting a steady stream. There seemed to be some pressure oscillation at a frequency of about 1 - 2 hz. Is this normal? Does it indicate that anything might be not quite right?
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jon1163
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by jon1163 »

En Bee wrote: The water coming out of the condenser kind of came out in spurts instead of getting a steady stream. There seemed to be some pressure oscillation at a frequency of about 1 - 2 hz. Is this normal? Does it indicate that anything might be not quite right?
I found that if I run my still too hot it will spurt. Usually I found this is because I can't condense the vapor fast enough. Try slowing down a bit and see if that helps.
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

jon1163 wrote:I found that if I run my still too hot it will spurt. Usually I found this is because I can't condense the vapor fast enough. Try slowing down a bit and see if that helps.
Oh! Good point! Since it was water I was just kind of running it hot. I didn't try messing with the heat to see if I could "tune" it. Since it's running on a gas stove, that shouldn't be too hard. Thanks!
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by MoonBreath »

Neat lil unit there..Ifn not paste then maybe rolled up wheat bread formed to fit.
Keep us posted.
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by ben stiller »

En Bee wrote: The water coming out of the condenser kind of came out in spurts instead of getting a steady stream. There seemed to be some pressure oscillation at a frequency of about 1 - 2 hz. Is this normal? Does it indicate that anything might be not quite right?
Did it make a huffing sound while it was spurting? That is a sign that you are running too hot. Try putting a piece of copper mesh (scrubbie) in the outlet of your condenser. This should help but looking at your pics I feel that your condenser might be a little short
to allow you to run fast.
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

There wasn't any noise. I'll try packing the condenser to see it's effect. I like that idea. Also, I'm going to run a fan to cool off the water reservoir. The water pump was running at like 20% speed so I can probably get some better cooling as well.

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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by ben stiller »

How are you controlling the pump speed? I have a tee in the pump supply line with a valve in it that dumps back to the reservoir to
control the cooling water flow. Your condenser return water should be very warm to touch but not really hot. You want a nice temperature gradient up the condenser,
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

The pump has a dial at the water inlet that controls the flow rate. The water coming out is pretty cool and I'm using less than half of it's max speed.

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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by still_stirrin »

En Bee wrote:The pump has a dial at the water inlet that controls the flow rate. The water coming out is pretty cool and I'm using less than half of it's max speed.
The water flow velocity is too fast, not just the mass flow rate. When the gpm/lph is too fast, it doesn’t allow for adequate heat transfer from the vapor to the coolant. The condenser will be cold and the vapor will go into “shock cooling”. That’s the huffing and surging in the outlet you’re experiencing.

Slow the water flow down so that it comes out of the condenser warm and you’ll create the temperature gradient needed in the condenser to eliminate the huffing. A valve on the condenser’s outlet will do that very well. Adjust the water flow so that it is nice and warm (not scalding).
En Bee wrote:...Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Please turn this app generated signature off. We don’t need it here. You’ll find the switch in your phone’s system settings.
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My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

still_stirrin wrote:
En Bee wrote:The pump has a dial at the water inlet that controls the flow rate. The water coming out is pretty cool and I'm using less than half of it's max speed.
The water flow velocity is too fast, not just the mass flow rate. When the gpm/lph is too fast, it doesn’t allow for adequate heat transfer from the vapor to the coolant. The condenser will be cold and the vapor will go into “shock cooling”. That’s the huffing and surging in the outlet you’re experiencing.

Slow the water flow down so that it comes out of the condenser warm and you’ll create the temperature gradient needed in the condenser to eliminate the huffing. A valve on the condenser’s outlet will do that very well. Adjust the water flow so that it is nice and warm (not scalding).
En Bee wrote:...Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Please turn this app generated signature off. We don’t need it here. You’ll find the switch in your phone’s system settings.
ss
Interesting. I never considered how the temperature profile would effect the output. It makes sense though since it's also going to effect the pressure profile. I'll be able to play with this more on Friday.

Also, signature should be turned off now. Kept forgetting to do that.

Thanks for the help!
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

I tried a steam run again today without using the white grommet. Instead, I wrapped the lip of the pot with PTFE tape. The first time there was a small leak. I think it was because I tightened the cover too much and it cut through the tape. So I added more tape and didn't tighten it as much the second time. This time it worked! No leaks. I'm going to buy thicker tape next time if I can though.

I adjusted my water circulation and I think that it's consistent enough now. It still spurts a little but I don't think it'll cause any issues. The cooling seems to work well enough that I don't think I'll even need to do much to keep it cool other run a fan over the water.

I think I got a good enough setup that I'm going to start moving towards my cleaning run. I have cleaning vinegar but I need to read more about the step before the vinegar run. I'll post back later when I have more updates!
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

Last weekend I started the ferment for my sacrificial run. I used these to make about a 4.25 gallon wash:
ingredients.jpg
I used these two pages to figure out the quantities:
http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/calculator.htm
http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary ... n-tsp.html

The starting S.G. was 1.079. I've had it setup in my kitchen since then. The airlock is still bubbling away. I'll take the final S.G. reading tomorrow.I plan on doing the run tomorrow after I do a vinegar run.
theSetup.jpg
Also, I have a little more construction that I've completed that I will share photos of as well.
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by fizzix »

Good work. Glad you have the leaks tamed and getting your sacrificial done. You'll be making some fine alcohol in no time.
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

So I was lazy and haven't updated my progress yet...

Prior to my sac run, I did a little more work on the still. I purchased another section of pipe and ferrule and soldered them together. It went wildly better than last time I used the torch. I think I may have added more solder after this photo.
Soldered joint using the cooking torch and silver solder.
Soldered joint using the cooking torch and silver solder.
The goal of this section is to house a condenser coil. I bought this off of eBay because after reading comments about how difficult these are to create...no thanks. From what I’ve read, I think it’s supposed to be not completely sealed so I tried making a little partial cap. I think I want something better but that's a problem for another day.
Top view of condenser coil in upper column.
Top view of condenser coil in upper column.
The coil seems to work but since I haven’t needed to use it yet, I haven’t finished tweaking it. Later this year, I’ll probably get back to it. Also, I ended up needing a second pump to run the water through it as the little pump I have isn’t strong enough for both the coil and the Liebig condenser. These pumps are cheap so it wasn’t a big deal to just buy a second one. Also, having two pumps means I can keep the water reservoirs separate since the water going through the coil is going to heat up a lot quicker.

I also didn’t seem to get any condensate actually coming out of the arm but there are a few things that I think could have caused that and I haven’t dealt with tweaking this yet. I think I only ran vinegar with this setup.

Another bit of construction that I completed was improving the gasket. I used the PTFE ring that I cut and attached two rings of cardboard to the PTFE ring by wrapping it with PTFE tape. This has worked out perfectly! I'm not sure how necessary the ring of solid PTFE is so for anyone that may read this, try it with just the wrapped cardboard first.
Ring of solid PTFE and two rings of cardboard.
Ring of solid PTFE and two rings of cardboard.
All three rings wrapped with PTFE tape.
All three rings wrapped with PTFE tape.
My sac run of Bird Watchers went from a starting S.G. of 1.079 to a final S.G. of 1.001. After running everything through the still (which took about 2.5 runs) and experiencing the effects of running the stove for around 4 – 5 hours in my one-bedroom apartment, I made a pretty big improvement and bought an induction hot plate. Now it heats up quite a bit quicker, it’s easier to control, and it’s so efficient that the handles on the pot don’t even get warm. The only downside is that I’m pretty sure I’m right at the weight limit of what the hot plate is rated for so I feel like I have to be super delicate with it but that’s not a huge deal.
Updated setup including the induction hot plate.
Updated setup including the induction hot plate.
I’m currently fermenting gen 6 of my UJSSM. I’ve been collecting the low wines and I’m hoping to start my spirit runs around the second weekend in June. I’ve been having various issues with ferment speed (I think because of pH) but that’s a different topic. Overall, it’s going quite well. I’m looking forward to experimenting with oaking. I have a little 3 liter barrel that I’m going to put some of the UJSSM in also.
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Swedish Pride
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by Swedish Pride »

so basically you're turning it in to a CCVM, quite and popular option these days.
I'd remove what ever it it that you have blockign the vapour path on top of the coil, just leave it open.

Many here that know more about CCVM than me, I'd advice a wee read of DAD300's CCVM thread.
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by rubelstrudel »

This still design is so neat and tidy. I'm really impressed.
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

rubelstrudel wrote:This still design is so neat and tidy. I'm really impressed.
Thank you! I bought the copper column off eBay so I can't take credit for that. The salad bowl is my work though!
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En Bee
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by En Bee »

Swedish Pride wrote:so basically you're turning it in to a CCVM, quite and popular option these days.
I'd remove what ever it it that you have blockign the vapour path on top of the coil, just leave it open.

Many here that know more about CCVM than me, I'd advice a wee read of DAD300's CCVM thread.
Yup, I've read through a few pages of that thread. I'll definitely dive back in one I start messing with it again!
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Re: Pot Still that's still a pot

Post by Swedish Pride »

En Bee wrote:
rubelstrudel wrote:This still design is so neat and tidy. I'm really impressed.
Thank you! I bought the copper column off eBay so I can't take credit for that. The salad bowl is my work though!
Salad bowl stillers unite!! :ebiggrin: :wave:
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