newbe copper still build

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drotto
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newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

Ok i'm a newbe member here.
i have been lurking for a long time .
Over the years I read a lot and just thought about what I read.
So heres a long winded story about how the pix below came into being.
If you don't have much time just check out the pix I know I gab too much.

My interest in stills goes back to junior high where I researched them in the library.
On paper I drew up a classic pot still with thumper but had no idea how to build it.
I still have that drawing all these years later.
Did all the shop classes in high school and in college I ended up with a studio art degree in jewelery .
I had a professor there that went to cranbrook and he was an excellent teacher for metal smithing amoungst other things.
I learned a bit there graduated with big plans but in the real world I quickly discovered that art doesn't pay.

So instead I've made my living many ways including general contracting.
About a year ago I was at a swap meet and saw a four copper sheets for sale.
The copper 8'x 12” 22 gauge and was probably intended for some sort of siding detail as it had a full fold and a 90 degree bend on each long side.

I needed some copper for making returns on some 4x4 posts in a flat roof project so I asked how much.
He wanted 200 bux which not knowing copper prices I thought was high.
I only needed about 2 sections and wasn't wanting to pay that much but I made an offer anyway.
We dickered a bit and I finally said forget it and started leaving.

I had pointed out how late in the day it was and I guess he heard me.
He called me back and I got all the copper for 50 bux.
My cusion made a building a still joke but I did buy it for the returns.
Built the returns and I was ight I had twice as much as I needed.
With two sections left over I wondered if I could build a still and did some more reading.
I confused myself with cone math,circunference of circles angles degrees and even bought a book or two. After a week or so I decided I had enough material to build a small still maybe 5 gallons with what I had on hand.
So I am currently building a pot still .
I had to put a lot of seams because 12 inch x 8 foot material really doesn't like being made into a five gallon pot.
I had a design from one of the books but was boring with straight walls
I decided a classic design with joined cones would be better .
More math, more thinking but in the end I figured it out.

So I'm using a pretty basic design but i'm adding some condensing mods which may or may not be wise.
Mostly in a longer column a different way to mount the top and a modified take on a libieg condensor because I can more than any good reason.

Heres some pix so far , with the pot and it's parts . a good deal of the stuff i'm on this doing comes from my silver/copper smith education.plus I am a fair to middling plumber so that helps a bit too.I'll try to explain what i'm doing or did if i'm not clear ask and I can explain deeper if someone is interested in more info.

The seams,
i used a seam folder it's a little over 100 years old but still works fine.they were primararly used for building stuff often they can still be found in places where people still build duct work for construction.
seam folder about 30 inches long
seam folder about 30 inches long
I used copper I had roughly 12'x8' sheets with a minor 90 degree fold and a joining fold in all of them.
This wouldn't allow a simple cut curve unless I wanted something only about one gallon in size.
it would be harder but ultimately cheaper in copper material costs to use seams.
By making several cone shapes and joining them together I could use the maximum amount of sheet with minimal waste.
So my first job was to do the math and figure out what I could build with available materials.
That's a long and dull subject that i'll skip unless somebody absolutely needs to know and asks for the info.
Long story short I decided i'd have enough material to build a still boiler abut 12” high 16” on the top and 12” on the bottom. I'd need to make sections and fold join them together.
I decided to add rivets just because I could (to me they look cool) plus it would make mock up of parts way easier and let me braze everything together in a final step.
It's been my experience when building stuff to break the build into disipline sections .

So my first task was to get the copper in workable form.
I heated the copper to a dull red with a straight acetalene torch.
After dipping in a solution of ½ cheap vinigar ½ plain water (old school metal pickle solution) I washed off the loose scale and went to my next step which was flattening the sheets.
Many metal smith would cry foul at my not removing all the fire scale by leaving in my rough pickle but i've found it makes little difference when you do multiple reheats.
I carefully unfolded the big fold and flattened the minor fold. I didn't go for perfectly flat i'm about utility on this build.
I then re-annealed the copper by heating to dull red and tossing it into the pickle.
A quick note here about annealing in case you don't know.
Annealing is the process where you heat a non ferrous metal to a dull red. By heating it to temp you get the work hardened bits to return to a dead soft condition. This is very useful when you want to shape metal.work hardening happens when you work metal-banging it with hammers ,folding it or manipulating the shape. As it gets work hardened the metal gets stretched and brittle on a molecular level. Think ovals ,by heating it up the metal returns to its natural molecular shape ,think round, and is soft again.

Anyway after annealing I marked the first lines checked my math and cut out my first parts.
On each build section I did all the cuts first, file tight second ,join and rivit third, trap hammer fold last .
then hold till everything is ready for final assembly.
The first thing I made was the head no particular reason why.
didn't take pix either.
The planned dimension was 6”bottom 8” top with a 12” height.
This had nothing to do with any kind of distilling math it's just what my material allowed.
I had to make two sections joined in the middle with a fold seam to make what I wanted.
I preshaped the curve using a old piece of diesel exhaust pipe as a former.
heres a pix of my "mandrel"
this is a diesel truck exhaust pipe i had.when you building big stuff you use whatever you can as a mandrel!!
this is a diesel truck exhaust pipe i had.when you building big stuff you use whatever you can as a mandrel!!
Basically you want to follow the radious lightly curving the annealed copper.
After the curves were pretty close I clamped the two together and started setting rivits.
I went with two per seam top and bottom, four rivits two seams, to hold the parts together.
i then hammer trapped the folds together which basically means I carefully hit them with a flat faced hammer pinching them together tightly.
I followed this with rivits evenly spaced on the fold.
In theory this should produce a water tight seam but i'll be brazing them all 100% sealed in the final phase.
I repeated this operation series on the other parts the difference being their basic shape.
I obseesed about the main boiler bottom numbers for almost a day as material was gonna be close.
Funnily , I realized the numbers 16x12x12 were the same as the head except doubled.i simply used the same pattern but made four sections instead of two, sometimes I feel like if I could just think clearly like once in a while Before I waste a day obsessing, life would be easy!
Anyway heres some pix so far.
cape and pot layout on the copper
cape and pot layout on the copper
checking main pot cuts and folds
checking main pot cuts and folds
curving pot section on old e-pipe
curving pot section on old e-pipe
When I get to them i'll post pix of my condensor set up.
I've read about condensors vapor flow/velocity and heat exchange with great interest.
My take away seems to be if you opt for a big square inch flow say two inches you need to deal with too much vapor velocity through the two inch area..
I read slowing the flow was best accomplished by either crimping the interior pipe or breaking it into smaller parts while cooling .
The complicated labor cost of the main pipe material for a shot gun condensor concerned me and I though about plumbing options to accomplish the same thing.
So I 'm going with a standard libig condensor (¾” outer/1/2” inner pipe)but x 4 to get the 2” vapor flow while using fairly easy to optain parts.
I'm using 1/2” x3/4”x3/4” for connections which i'll braze together to combine the pairs together then cut 1/2” opening to allow water flow.
I'll post pix soonish.
8)
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

more pix i'll add text later.
it's late and i'm tired.
7 main pot sections.JPG
7 main pot sections with flod seams added.JPG
7 close up of fold seams.JPG
7 pot section pre curved.JPG
7 setting rivits into pot section.JPG
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

more pix
7 pot with base fitted.JPG
a nose paper mockup for fit.JPG
a nose cone start.JPG
a roughing nose.JPG
a locking nose seam.JPG
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

1rivits set up with tape backing.JPG
1rivits taped into place.JPG
pinching rivits.JPG
3 fixing opsie.JPG
cone layout.JPG
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

EARLY PEEK MOCK UP TO SEE WHAT IT'LL LOOK LIKE
EARLY PEEK MOCK UP TO SEE WHAT IT'LL LOOK LIKE
in mock up i found a big opsie
in mock up i found a big opsie
crappy patch roughed in on opsie
crappy patch roughed in on opsie
cape patch/repaired fits pretty good now
cape patch/repaired fits pretty good now
another mock up with rim rings all nearly done
another mock up with rim rings all nearly done
these are it for now TIRED.
Angoth
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Angoth »

Great craftmanship !
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

thanx for the kind words.

heres some pix of the top rim being formed.
my still is fairly big and the metal is 22 gauge which while not fragile is a bear to butt braze so a rim overlapping was my solution.
a formed rim does three things brazing the joints will be easier , it'll be stronger on the edges and it'll look better.
the first thing i did not pictured was flatten 1/2 inch thin wall copper pipe to create the rim material.
i used my rolling mill also a not common tool so i skipped this part of process.
it would've been way easier to just use 18 gauge copper strip but this is a low cash outlay built.
a side note
i'm a contractor in trades so i have ALOT of copper scrap all the time.
i routinely scrap copper for coffee money and just sent about 100# of copper to the yard.
alot of 2",3" and a little 4" copper was in the bin.
had i realized how prevalent 2" copper pipe stills were becoming i wouldn't have done that.

a suggestion to guys self building is go to local scrap yards and purchase copper there.
usually they'll want maybe 10 cents over current scrap value for copper piping.
if you aren't a jerk they'll often let you scrounge through the pile or they'll hold the good bits and call you.
Expect to pay cash , it won't be shiney new but it will be a bit less than 5 bux a foot.
the best part is short pieces are common as scrappers tend to cut copper into easily carried sections.
scrap copper is easily cleaned of oxidation by tossing it into a solution of cheap store vinigar and water for a week or so.
if it's really bad preheat it close to annealing temp and that'll loosen up bad deposits and scale.
back to build
i prepped the flattened copper to be folded into a peice of copper angle by annealing it , copper in it's annealed state is pretty soft.
i used my seam folder for this but any good metal shop will have a metal folder and can do this for you.
using my seam folder also forced me to work in short sections which i then brazed together. to prevent seam overlap you'd want to thin the ends of any connection and lap join them. or a simple butt braze would work too.

after you bend the angle copper you need to shape it.
anneal the metal to make it dead soft. heat till it's dull red in the heated section and repeat till the whole piece has seen heat.
find a mandrel of the correct size or make one.
the first picture has my cheap mandrel i scrounged up for a mandrel.
i needed a circle 17.25" across to create a nice smooth circle.
originally i was gonna just turn a disk on a lathe but i went junk yard crawling and found this damaged car rim the perfect size.
my idea of a cheap mandrel
my idea of a cheap mandrel
close up of mandrel
close up of mandrel
you'll be bending the copper around the mandrel to form it.
try to keep it tight but perfection isn't needed yet.
the clamps help hold the metal being formed on the manderal
the clamps help hold the metal being formed on the manderal
then loosely clamp some c-clamps around the rim to hold the copper in place.
DO NOT CLAMP THE COPPER SOLIDLY TO THE RIM.
The forming here required hitting the copper tight to the rim so the copper has to be free to move.
using a wooden mallet or a leather mallet or a stick of soft wood gently hammer the copper in a circle. start at the cut and follow the radious. the idea is to tap the copper to conform with the rim shape .
you need to have you other hand holding the copper to the rim the tendency is for the copper to lift clear as it work hardens.
this is fine except it need to touch when you're forming to take the rim shape.
later when you size the copper you'll be reshaping anyway so the idea here is a smooth curve through out.
rim jigged for final joint
rim jigged for final joint
after sizing you'll need to braze the final joint. heres a simple jig set up.

for now i'm outta time.
gotta go.
as time permits i'll fill out the process of each step for rainy day reading if you like.
8)
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Sungy
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Sungy »

Great craftsmanship ....a great read!
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acfixer69
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by acfixer69 »

Looking great I'm subscribed Nice narrative and detail :thumbup:
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pfshine
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by pfshine »

Great job. I can't wait to see it finished up. Hell I can't wait to see what else you make.
Life is a journey you take alone. Make sure you do what you what makes you happy
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

thank you for the kind words.
i have some skill sets that seem to have gotten pretty rare .
in my mind losing the ability to make something outta stuff a horrible thing.
so i try to show how things are done as best i can if i do build something.
when i first started with metal smithing i was told to make some wire out of a penny.
i did so with a little instruction.
funnily enough i'm told that is a federal offense!

anyway i work a job that is either feast or famine so i get big blocks of free time.
of course i also do construction but the snow and all is a fine can't work excuse.
so today i worked on the final fit for the cape to rim collar and the first ring for the head connection.
as the cape was f-d up by me it was slightly undersize and had to be worked a little.
those details are really hand knowledge technical and i forgot to take pix anyway.

i really couldn't buy those new fangled stainless connections for the main still.
so the main connection to the pot may be of interest to self builders .
i am making the collars myself partly because i'm cheap, partly art farty concerns (would look wrong), partly so i use traditional still sealing methods.
but mainly because i like my idea better.
it's going to be two rings that nest together similar to a regular pot still but a bit more durable and complicated.
the first ring is brazed to the cape ,the second ring is brazed (or will be soon) to the head.
i left some overlap inside the hole going into the barrel the idea is to provide a sealing surface for the base of the still head ring.
after i'm done with that bit i'm probably gonna use a hinge pin sort of connection to lock the head in place.
no worries about steam explosions i've already decided to use a 2" rubber cork in the very top to allow for temp reading of vapor.
if disastor strikes the cork will pop out long before the still becomes shrapnel (i hope).

anyway i'll post a few more pix now then off to sleep .
got work tomorrow whoee a whole day of work.
funnily in times like this having work annoys me as i'm on a mission!!
pix
paper mock up for nose
paper mock up for nose
cone draw onto copper,theres a small area thats air but it'll be in the seam so no issue there.
cone draw onto copper,theres a small area thats air but it'll be in the seam so no issue there.
the nose got it's fold added then it was roughed on a small pipe.wasn't sure i could lock the seam but i did no worries.
the nose got it's fold added then it was roughed on a small pipe.wasn't sure i could lock the seam but i did no worries.
i used a hude steel worker shiv i have from another time and a hammer to lock the seam.as with any seam it's a good idea to put a top and bottom rivit first to hold it in place.don't add other till seam is locked as the metal needs to be able to move.
i used a hude steel worker shiv i have from another time and a hammer to lock the seam.as with any seam it's a good idea to put a top and bottom rivit first to hold it in place.don't add other till seam is locked as the metal needs to be able to move.
nose re annealed and tossed into pickle . at some point i'll figure out how to shape it nice may have to do some wood lathe time as the taper is really fine.
nose re annealed and tossed into pickle . at some point i'll figure out how to shape it nice may have to do some wood lathe time as the taper is really fine.
Scott817
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Scott817 »

Great job!! That still looks like the Tiger tank of stills. You should be proud as hell!!
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

did my single 16 hour day o work yesterday, drove home, washed up, fell into bed,aaand i'm awake now, it's snowing here again so nothing to do but wander down into the shop. :D
but first
compliments are nice but make me nervous.
pride goes before the fall!
i am happy with it so far.
for me it's coming out as expected some parts exactly as planned other parts evolving with the build as per site conditions so to speak.

now a question

there's a section i'm planning that i hope doesn't create controversy and certainly hope will work as i am planning.
the collar between the main pot and the vapor head will be able to fit up other things.
my idea is to add a gin basket sort of arrangement there.
if you can picture this it'll be 12" high an eight inch barrel tube tapering into six inches top and bottom.
it'll fit between the pot and the vapor head like a column still.

actually i have three different ideas for forced reflux.
two i like the third not so much.

idea #1 is to put a flat cooling coil in the bottom and packing of some sort above.
the coil will be an internal spiral to cover the most area and support the packing.
my concern is whether i am too close to the actual distilling liquids for a decent forced reflux.
the threads posted i've found seem to argue both sides of this placement.

idea #2 evolved in my head while i've been building.
i thought rather than placing the coil on the bottom and packing above potentially too low i could just change where i place the coil.
i'd place it onto the top and place the packing in the vapor head.
i then realized if i do that i could also use this part as a real gin basket style of attachment by designing something to shelve flavor materials below the coil.
this is a very rough sketch. the spelling isn't great and some things are left out as i have them safe in my head? anyway the middle section would be loaded with some sort of ceramic rings and chopped fruit bits for flavoring. above would be more rings or copper mesh to help condense lower temp vapor.
this is a very rough sketch. the spelling isn't great and some things are left out as i have them safe in my head? anyway the middle section would be loaded with some sort of ceramic rings and chopped fruit bits for flavoring. above would be more rings or copper mesh to help condense lower temp vapor.
idea three which i'm not liking at all
i'd put the forced reflux way in the top of the head .
the good part is the forced reflux will be in the highest section.
which seems to be the preferred placement by many designers.

adding an external forced reflux would ruin the classic look i'm going for with this build so it's a non starter.

by moving it to the top i'd also eliminate 12 inches of height and create a building nightmare .
many of the parts already planned (some built) will have to be rethought.

i also would have to figure out a collar that's 8 inches across and a decent way to seal everything .
or i'd make the coil a permanent install but it would be inaccessible for decent cleaning.

adding a cooling coil up there would also screw the vapor temp reading up in a big way.
while the temp readings aren't essential to a successful run they will give me something to do while baby sitting the still.

it'll make where i attach the worm nose a non starter and i'll have to redesign that section to accommodate the coil.

finally it'll leave me without anywhere to place flavoring things so i'd be making the low section anyway for just flavoring.
idea three for me is a non starter but i'm new to still designs and am open to ideas and would like some input.

so that's the three competing ideas.
comments?
D 8)
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

Very good worksmanship. I would love to see what you could do with better tools and new copper but you built it in the tradition of my ancestors. They used what they had.
I commend you sir for you represent the true spirit of this craft and its origins, well done.
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

thanx for the kind words it means alot.
i do have some fairly modern tools in comparison to back when like a oxy acetolene torch and various electric tools.
but on the main anyone can build something simular with simple hand tools and a little extra work.
and i do prefer the old fashioned look of the main still.


on another i was kinda forced to buy some new copper.
i modified the main pot size slightly as i had about 3/4" material that i would otherwise have throw away.
net result is the bottom was 12 3/4" across instead of 12".
i caught the problem way early in the build but the extra material added about 1.75 gallons overall capacity to the pot.
so i just fixed the parts that got outta wack (opsie in previous pix) as best as possible not real pretty but i go more for function.
i could've added a seam in the bottom too but i ponied up some cash and bought more copper.
sticker shock was a big hurdle but i finally ordered a small bit extra.
it'll allow me to put a single piece in the bottom and build a couple of more parts.

theres been some progress but no pix.
mostly boring stuff like creating a curved and tapered piece of wood to smooth out the tapered lyne arm (what i call the nose).
that came about before i got to a lathe because i decided to sharpen and old wooden draw plane i have in the shop.
it had a buck bros blade so i just had to see how well it worked.
a 2x4 minding it own business soon turned into the right shape.
props to buck bros for making a blade that easily sharpened up after not being used for well over fifty years.

tomorrow i'll snap some more pix and maybe i'll mock up my idea for a quad libig condenser.
i'll definitely ask for comments on the workability of my design.
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

With the tall cap you will automatically gain some cooling/reflux in a traditional pot still arrangement. I dont have any experience with adapting pot stills but i do know some old timers tried using coils in the cap but im unsure of the success of it. I dont think it worked very well because none of the old shiners i know or knew ever did it and ive done a lot of research on still construction over the years. My point is if it was a good advancement it would have been used a lot more.
Thats my two cents worth anyway.
Using a boiler, thumper, condenser setup a lot of flavoring can be gained in the thumper and i have used it for that quite effectively for decades. You can do a peach wash and add freshly crushed peaches into the thumper with some of the heads (or high shots) from a previous run and it makes the brandy taste like your eating a fresh peach. If you add tailings and fresh wash it will do the same with whiskey.
Ive never tried gins or vodkas so im far from an expert in that area as ive stuck with traditional sour mash recipes but i do know that awesome piece of workmanship will be a fantastic whisky still regardless of how you run it.
Your an excellent still builder my friend..
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

i thought and thought about the coil in the cap and it just doesn't seem right to me either.
i read about the boka rigs and thought maybe i was missing something.

my idea of adding forced reflux below the head is just an idea right now.
i'll shelve it till i consider some more as the rest of the build is going smoothly and adding parts may jinx me.

i already was figuring on adding some sweet cider to the thumper when i run the apple wine i'll be running.
i'll see if i can find an orchard with stored apples that haven't been waxed and toss some whole apples in too as per your idea.

for now i'll dial back building till i see how what's built works.

on the peach wash i wonder if you'd share what you do prep wise.
while my area ain't exactly georgia we do get a few nice peaches in the summer.
i'd love to try making a clean peach brandy
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

been banging copper again so here's some more pix for the forum.
i admit i got a little carried away with the elbow.
would've been ALOT easier to just cut the angle i wanted and braze the pipe back together.
but there's no fun story then about how carried away i got building this one.
plus this still outta last a while and i want it to look like i might've cared at one time. :wink:

i've created an experimental joint system with this build.basically two copper rings that nest one in the other that'll be sealed with traditional methods.
way more complicated than needed but it's my build and i like it. :D

what's pictured below is an exploded view of the lyne arm of the still.the separate parts will be brazed onto two sections. the lyne pipe and the lyne elbow will mate together with a sealable seam section as pictured. my intention is to have the head section looking less obviously part of a still when in transport by nosy eyes.
here's a exploded view pix so far of the elbow joint build . sorry not to have start pix the elbow just kinda happened when the camera was mia.
here's a exploded view pix so far of the elbow joint build . sorry not to have start pix the elbow just kinda happened when the camera was mia.
here's a pix of it more as it'll appear finished
here's a pix of it more as it'll appear finished
here's a close in of elbow. the thin copper ring brazed inside the elbow is part of the lyne arm seal.
here's a close in of elbow. the thin copper ring brazed inside the elbow is part of the lyne arm seal.
another angle of the elbow copper seal
another angle of the elbow copper seal
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

here's a couple more pix. the outer copper ring is to retain the lyne arm in place.
the inner copper ring is lighter 22 gauge copper that fits tightly inside the lyne arm.
that'll help reduce vapor pressure on the paste joint.
big time overkill but i'm having fun doing it.
later there will be an attachment point added to the lyne arm and elbow.
here's the elbow with outer ring mocked up in place
here's the elbow with outer ring mocked up in place
lyne arm to elbow connection inside view assembled
lyne arm to elbow connection inside view assembled
lyne arm elbow placed in position on cap dome
lyne arm elbow placed in position on cap dome
lyne arm elbow and cap mocked up on still body
lyne arm elbow and cap mocked up on still body
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

I love the ablemic design, that thing is going to be a workhorse and should produce some very good distillate. I would love to build some stuff with you, your design and forming skills are off the hook.
Peach wash is actually easy to do and i dont mind telling you how i do mine. Nothing is propietary in distillation.
I use 30 gallon food grade barrels for 20 gallon batches.
For 20 gal. I use 1/4 to 1/2 a bushel of FRESH peaches. The quantity is dependant on sweetness are how aromatic they are.
Pit the peaches and cut into slices 3/8" to 1/2" thickness. Do not mush them up unless you want to go through the nightmare of straining them as ive found that the end product tastes the same and there isnt enough noticable gain in product to justify it.
But that just me that isnt proven science, i go on experience and results more than science.
Put 10 gallons of cold water into barrel with peach slices and give em a swirl before adding the hot water. I disolve 1/2 to 1 pound sugar in the remaining 10 gallons of hot water, sugar depends on sweetness of peaches.
I use fleischmans bread yeast on all of my mashes but occasionally use distillers yeast just not often. Ive even used champagne yeast with good results on fruit washes. Bread yeast has always produced better tasting grain mash for me so ive stuck with it.
Again, not science just my own experience even though i know there are alternatives..
I forget the exact amount but i usually use one pack per 5 gallons. Hydrate the yeast in 100 degree water and a tablespoon of suger until it starts to work and add to mash at 90 to 100 degrees. Stir it in gently to avoid crushing the peaches. After 24 hours give them one more gentle stir and let it work.
With fruits it is especially critical to maintain mash temp during entire fermentation. For peach i get the best results at 90 degrees and use stainless aquarium heaters to ensure the temp doesnt fluctuate. Peaches will start to rot in a heartbeat trust me. The good thing about this method is that as long as the mash doesnt smell sour you can add fresh water, a few more peaches and sugar and run them again. Just be sure to add some fresh water as soon as wash is emptied and do not put still backings into the mash.
Ive tried it and it gives it a whang or sour mash taste...(NASTY).
Im sure there are more users that can give you the exact science on fruit washes and a lot of finer points as well but this has worked very well for me for over 20 years and i know it produces a consistent product time after time. If you add mashed up peaches and heads (or high shots) into your thumper you get a delicious peachy distillate with very high proof. I always use a 50/50 heads and peach or 25/75 if using peach wash. (First run) after first run you have a lot of alcohol :D :D Be sure to watch your cuts closely as too much heads makes it too strong and tails just taste bad. Shoot for catching the heart of the run and save the heads seperately from the tails so they can be added to the next run to allow adjustment of flavor.
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

very cool and easy recipe i love it.
the only thing i'll need to get is peaches and a heater or two.
typically after i pitch yeast i let the ferment decide on temp unless it gets too hot.
but on your advise i'll hold it at 90 not really gonna be complicated.
will try that wash this year when peaches are happy on the trees.

had a bunch of time this morning till now so chugged along some more.
i'm beginning to think maybe i should've built the keg still first as i'll be tapped out for a while when this is done. :wink:
anyway heres some more pix.
this is some of the tools needed to do a build like this.they aren't really complicated but i suppose the round thing on top of my neck has alot to do with simple tools being useful.at some point i'll try to do a few how to videos but not sure how i'd approach that idea yet.
this is some of the tools needed to do a build like this.they aren't really complicated but i suppose the round thing on top of my neck has alot to do with simple tools being useful.at some point i'll try to do a few how to videos but not sure how i'd approach that idea yet.
head with flanged hole added for solid connection to lyne arm elbow
head with flanged hole added for solid connection to lyne arm elbow
adjusting fit before brazing
adjusting fit before brazing
head all brazed up
head all brazed up
newly brazed  head and lyne arm stuck on top for peek at what it'll look like. it occurs o me if the 10 gallons rig gets too small a larger barrel could be made for rest of rig. bwa ha ha
newly brazed head and lyne arm stuck on top for peek at what it'll look like. it occurs o me if the 10 gallons rig gets too small a larger barrel could be made for rest of rig. bwa ha ha
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

How many gallons will the pot hold? I use a 5 gallon thump on a 20 gallon pot and i usually run about 10% of pot volume in it. 20 gallons wash to 1.5 to 2 gallons in thump. If using heads i run 1.5 gallons - with wash or tailings 2 gallons. But i always add a little wash/still beer in the thumper as i get better results that way.
No 2 stills seem to run the same so you have to get used to what yours likes to do. Ever change to the system means and adjustment to what your used to.
Great work btw, you obviously have sheet metal experience
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

the math says the lower truncated cone holds about 9.26 gallons.
the space formed by the upper cone is about 3 gallons but is mostly reserved for head space
so i'm calling it roughly ten gallons just after the seam.

seems i'd need right around three gallon thumper if my math is good or 2.5 by your experience.
that would be really good as i have a really nice stainless container .
i'm hoping it will have enough volume to act as the thumper.

it says it's about three plus gallons maybe a touch more on the label.
(edit the stainless tank i have is 3 and 7/8 gallons woho think it'll do!)
was some kind of something from a brewery way down in texas.
have no idea how it got to a swap meet in R.I. ,but i got it for 5 bux . :D
had other plans for it , but it's too perfect as a thumper to consider any other use.
i'm measuring it tomorrow.

i do have some sheet metal skills still though i barely use them anymore.
i am a general contractor and have fooled around in motor sports my whole life.
when you bend up stuff it's useful to know how to unbend it.

way back when i had alot less years i was trained as a metal smith.
had decent talent but was born about 150 years too late!!
metal smith now a days pay is not so much and feeding family takes priority in my world.
so i went to the building trades instead.

my metal smithing skills haven't been used in thirty plus years but i was pretty good at it back when and never sold my tools.
both me and the tools are pretty rusty.
the tools shined up fast me not so much but i get by well enough.

tomorrow i got a few things that have to be done in the way of work.
t i'm hoping to have time after to add a little more work to the still.
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

It sounds like youve got a thumper to me. A gallon of wash or heads, tails etc in the thumper gives you 10% of pot volume. Ive used that ratio for decades and its always worked for me but i could be completely wrong too. I go by what works and try to apply the science to it at that point and it works so far. I stick to traditional pot stills with modernization to make them more efficient and user friendly. When i first started 30 years ago i had one of my mentors watch a run and he said if they had equipment like that they could have made some "damn good likker".
My thoughts on the art of distillation are that if it produces good results and it tastes good then your doing something right. ..right?
I could tell by the job youve done you had a mechanical background as ive driven a few drives myself. I trained as a machinist and have a pretty extensive background in steel fabrication as well. My true love is working with copper, its such an awesome metal to work with and ive done several "projects" for people through the years so when i saw the design in your pot i was blown away by it. That thing is going to be a hoss. I think your going to be very happy with it and you did it in the best way possible.
You did it yourself
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

ok yesterday i got busy cleaning shop so not much was done on the copper.
i did manage to re-invent the wheel or in this case a car header style collector but it's backwards to normal use.
it's destined to be part part of my hot rodded libig condenser.
i made it out of a piece of scrounged up 1.5 inch copper pipe that had been being used as a wrench extender.
the ends were pretty distorted which to me was perfect because i could whine about the pipe not being very round = cheaper price .
the actual reality was as long as i could get one side round the wanged up end wasn't a problem because i'd be banging it into another shape.
heres what i made ignore the pipes used they acted as a shaping jig while i changed the pipe shape.
libig collectors still on short copper used for jig.JPG
libig collector end view.JPG
well today was all about errands so nothing else was done but i did think on my design and decided i needed to ask a newbe question.
as you can see in pix i've gone with a high cap with dome that goes into a 3.5" pipe 90 degree turn.
a rough rule of thumb is each turn costs 25% of velocity so the tube tapers down to about 2" at end.
the lyne arm tube is 2' long giving me a reduction of 3/4" per foot.
it'll be going into a 2"x1' pipe into the thumper (no reduction) that tapers into 1.5" x 2' pipe to the bottom of the thumper (1/4" per foot reduction).
the drilled piping for bubbles is slated to be 1/2" pipe in two loops that'll equal a total of 1" of pipe size each pipe loop roughly 1' (about 1/2 reduction between the two pipes)
heres a sketch
Scan0001.jpg
i'm stepping it down to hopefully maintain the vapor speed .

first question am i over thinking/building this set up?
2nd question am i choking down the whole rig doing this?

as this section is being build next any design changes would be good to discuss before i actually build something . :?

finally here's a preview of what i'm probably building as a libig condensor.
the 1/2 pipe is currently 30" long but i may cut longer ones as i need to add a small dogleg bend to each end.
thats so they'll fit into my collector.
or i could cut the 3/4 inch down the 3/4.
the 3/4" cooling jackets are currently 24" long.
total water jacket cooling length is 8" which i hope is sufficient for anything i may try to do now and in the future.
libig roughed .JPG
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

btw appl spirits,
i came across your shotgun build VERY COOL.
IF I WASN'T SO LAZY I'D COPY THAT .
MAY STILL FOR ANOTHER BUILD DOWN THE ROAD. LOVED THE BAFFLING.
Dang caps lock and fat fingers again sorry about that
D
Scott817
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Scott817 »

Love your skills man. I am highly impressed.~ :clap:
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

Honestly if you taper down into the thumper your velocity will be fine and you wont need to worry about adding bubbles in the bottom. The less restriction the better as you wont have to run the boiler so hard. A lot of pot stills have the same size piping all the way into the thumper so you should be steller with your piping. With that badazz condenser it should flow like a dream too. 4 liebigs into a collector, man thats off the hook! A 38" 1/2" pipe inside a 3/4" jacket typically will knock down a bigger pot than your running so you have the mack daddy with what? 8 feet? Your an inspiration to us all.
Thanks on the shotgun btw, i overthink stuff too lol. It would have cooled just fine without the baffling but i wanted to see how efficient i could make it with the lowest coolant flow possible but it turned out ok i guess. When i look at it all i see are imperfections in the build.
Youve got mad skills drotto, im starting a fan club.
drotto
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by drotto »

eight feet is about right.
overkill is ok on the condensor as it'll fit anything with a 1.5 inch fitting.
who knows i may not be done building when the copper still is done!

on the condenser i'm looking at how to connect all the water inlets and outlets together cleanly.
considering copper costs i'm thinking the coolant lines will be ok in 3/4" heating pex.
my thoughts are cheap and easy connections and no water will contact the distillate anyway.
i know typically plastic is frowned on here .
but pex is way way better than any rubber hose i can think of and using copper is wasteful money wise.
thoughts?
D
Appalachian spirits
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Re: newbe copper still build

Post by Appalachian spirits »

I scored some reinforced vinyl tubing on ebay for cheap. I would def use some type of vinyl or rubber hose with plastic barb tees and connectors along with a 1/4 turn ball valve to use as a regulator If ur wanting to save some jingle. If your using water hose an old section of 1/2" clamped to a piece of flared tubing works real well.
my thoughts on pex are yes its bomber but i tried it on my shotgun and it was just too stiff to do what i needed . It would be a great feed line but the plunbing around the condenser would get too aggravating ( for me). If you have a cheap source for the pex fittings it would def be stronger and with the skill level you have the connections shouldnt be an issue either.
Plastic fittings arent as strong as brass but if they are fixed, are suitable for hot water and not being manipulated they work fine. The only real limitation of plastic is temperature tolerence but on the outlet side it shouldnt be that hot anyway Ive seen a lot of shotguns and liebigs on this site with vinyl tubing. Your going to be fine, just keep doing what your doing.
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