Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

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MtRainier
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Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

I intend for this to be a reference for distillers who are thinking about ordering a fancy still from alibaba and importing it themselves. It can also be a reference for why stills purchased online from local sellers are much more expensive than the same or similar hardware you might find online at alibaba or aliexpress.

If it's allowed I'll post hardware costs as well as all of the extra ones I discovered after starting the process of getting it to me. The combined costs of packing, shipping, freight filings, freight forwarding, port fees, tariffs, customs bonds, and final delivery ended up being just slightly more about the initial hardware.

The hardware, when it arrived, was a nice set, and appears to have been well designed, but it will take a bunch of finishing, cleaning, and a few extra hardware bits to actually use it.

Here's what was delivered to my driveway after spending about 2 months on ships, going through the Panama Canal, arriving in New York, then traveling to Baltimore:
on the driveway
on the driveway
I opened the lid like it was a "major award" from Christmas Story with my crowbar and it was well packed for the trip:
in the box
in the box
As I unwrapped it, I noticed that the bubble plates are really thick copper and seem clean and well built at least:
bubble plate
bubble plate
Here it is for the first "dry fit". Most of the bits seem to be there:
assembled
assembled
More later. If anyone wants closer pics or details, pm or post up here. I can break down total pricing on it if it's useful.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by ElCubanazo »

Watching this post. If allowed I'd love to know total pricing out of curiosity!
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

I'll get the various invoices in a pile. It's embarrassing how much it ended up being, but once it got on the ship I was committed.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by fizzix »

Gorgeous piece of equipment, MtRainier!
(And good work on what I assume is your controller next to it.)
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

I'll post pics of the inside of that controller box. It's really well laid out. I didn't make it. It came from them included in the price.

Pretty much every bit of the parts that the liquid or vapor will touch needs a good scrubbing and cleaning runs will be a must on this. Also the threads have some burrs to clean and aren't guaranteed to be NPT in fractional sizes, heh. I hit the language barrier trying to get that info.

It's a bit of a project, but I am excited to try to make good bourbon. Once I run the first batch that has good white whiskey I'll put my order in with Gibbs for barrels.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

Here is the price breakdown I ended up with.

Manufacturer -
Still (boiler, sight glass, controller, heaters, agitator, column, condensers, parrot, light, OPVs) 1720
Shipping (actually just packing and putting it on the ship) 230
PayPal fee 97.5

Logistics company -
Duty, MFP, Customs charges (Chinese tariffs) 540.78
Administrative processing fee 50
Filing customs entry 150
ISF filing 55
Customs bond premium 55
Trucking (curbside delivery from port) 565

Shipping service -
chassis surcharge 10
handling 75
Inbound 35
L.O.T. 225
NYCT PUP 3
Security fee 25

Total $3836.28
Last edited by MtRainier on Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Samyguy »

Yeah , But ain't she pretty!
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

Samyguy wrote:Yeah , But ain't she pretty!
Yep, sure is. I'll appreciate it more once the sting wears off. Now to see if I can make anything good with it.

Here's details of the controller. It has two potentiometers to control the two 5500W elements. They are attached to two of the speed controllers. That's what I predict will fail first which will cause me to use variable SSRs instead. The large relays on the back of the controller are triggered by the power switches on the front to send power to the speed controllers.

It came without a power input cord, so I need to get a range appliance cord from the hardware store to handle 50A, 240V.

I apologize that all of the previews are sideways. If you click the image it will be right-side up.

Front
front
front
Behind controls
behind controls
behind controls
Relays and power
relays and power input/outputs
relays and power input/outputs
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Swedish Pride »

Nice looking gear lad.
so just over same again cost wise to get it home as is was to advertised for, great info for anyone looking to do the same.
should serve you well, thanks for sharing :thumbup:
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

Swedish Pride wrote:so just over same again cost wise to get it home as is was to advertised for, great info for anyone looking to do the same.
Yep, basically doubled the price.

It looks like might be the same manufacturer that Olympic, for instance, imports from, so this illustrates Olympic’s pricing as being very good for their hardware once you add in everything required to bring it to the US. They aren’t making huge profits on them, and I’m sure SD doesn’t either considering they do a lot of product development in addition to importing. I have no idea how they’re able to still do it in the US with tariffs the way they are now. They didn’t have what I wanted, or I would have rather have dealt with them, though, and would do that in the future. Going it alone was an interesting learning experience.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Windswept »

MtRainier wrote:
Swedish Pride wrote:so just over same again cost wise to get it home as is was to advertised for, great info for anyone looking to do the same.
Yep, basically doubled the price.

It looks like might be the same manufacturer that Olympic, for instance, imports from, so this illustrates Olympic’s pricing as being very good for their hardware once you add in everything required to bring it to the US. They aren’t making huge profits on them, and I’m sure SD doesn’t either considering they do a lot of product development in addition to importing. I have no idea how they’re able to still do it in the US with tariffs the way they are now. They didn’t have what I wanted, or I would have rather have dealt with them, though, and would do that in the future. Going it alone was an interesting learning experience.
Those guys probably get bulk discounts both on equipment and shipping. A lot of the "admin" costs are per shipment, not by value or size
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

I’m sure you’re right. They do bulk to let them make a profit. The current 30% import tariff seems like it would eat the profit right away unless they increase customer prices by that amount. I don’t watch pricing to see if that happened or not.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by steelmb »

MtRainier wrote:
Samyguy wrote:Yeah , But ain't she pretty!
...It came without a power input cord, so I need to get a range appliance cord from the hardware store to handle 50A, 240V....
Around here ranges have always been on a 40A circuit. That would be shy of the power you would need to run this flat out so you would have to keep it dialed back a bit. It is possible that there are 50A ones out there and I have just not seen any.
I believe MCH may have said it best. "It's your hooch, you get to choose."
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http://w.homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... =7&t=66849
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Windswept »

steelmb wrote:
MtRainier wrote:
Samyguy wrote:Yeah , But ain't she pretty!
...It came without a power input cord, so I need to get a range appliance cord from the hardware store to handle 50A, 240V....
Around here ranges have always been on a 40A circuit. That would be shy of the power you would need to run this flat out so you would have to keep it dialed back a bit. It is possible that there are 50A ones out there and I have just not seen any.
I think what you need is a welder plug. They make them as 30/50a, just need to change one of the prongs. Easy-peasy to wire up!
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Applia ... rd/1006201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That's what I got plus the matching surface mount outlet and 50 feet of simpull 6/3 romex. It will let me also have a neutral leg available for 120v devices like a March pump for a CIP ball.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Oldvine Zin »

MtRainier wrote:https://m.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Applia ... rd/1006201

That's what I got plus the matching surface mount outlet and 50 feet of simpull 6/3 romex. It will let me also have a neutral leg available for 120v devices like a March pump for a CIP ball.
:thumbup: :thumbup: You might want to consider a 50 amp GFCI breaker to complete the kit.

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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Chauncey »

wow thats some hefty shipping cost! nice setup though! mad jelly
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

Oldvine Zin wrote: :thumbup: :thumbup: You might want to consider a 50 amp GFCI breaker to complete the kit.
So that's an interesting question. Those breakers are expensive and also mail-order only. The local Lowes/HomeDepot stores don't carry them around me, at least. They do carry the standard 50 amp breaker for around 10 bucks. I know it's silly to cheap out now, given how much I've spent so far, but I don't want to get one unless I need it.

The inside of the controller has this power breaker in the photo below which has two buttons labeled in Chinese. It really looks like a GFCI to me which would save me from buying a GFCI breaker for the panel. I brought this photo in to show a guy at work who can read Chinese and he said that the bottom button is labeled "Press this once a month" and the top button is labeled something like "Press this after closing the switch" but he was a little vague and I didn't really get it.

My guess is that the bottom button is the "Test" button on the GFCI and the top button is the "Reset" button on the GFCI that I'm familiar with.

Does anyone here read Chinese to see if my guess is right?
internal breaker
internal breaker
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by jonnys_spirit »

What happens when you push them?

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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

So I did the reasonable thing after posting and googled the model number of that breaker.

It does look like it has 10mA internal "leakage current" protection. Which means GFCI to me.

http://next.chint.com/upload/data/20160 ... 005599.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That's the sell sheet for these breakers. Page 8 has this one, and those buttons are labeled what I thought they were. Top seems to be trip indicator and reset, bottom seems to be test. The 2D barcode on there goes to a 404 page which seems to have moved, unfortunately.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

jonnys_spirit wrote:What happens when you push them?

Cheers,
-jonny
Nothing at the moment. Gotta wire it for them to do anything, I guess.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

I finished thoroughly cleaning everything. There was shop dust (like the stuff that settles on everything when you're grinding metal) on most of the parts and tool lubricant on pretty much everything.

I'm leak testing the condensers today. Filled them with water with the fittings facing up and will look for drips. Same with the jacket. Filled it up halfway and will look tonight.

As I was cleaning and examining everything one thing that I thought of is that a company that imports these from the factory gets to choose which parts are made well and which are not and can send you the ones that are good. If I order just this one from China I only get one chance to get a well-made one.

This one does seem to be well-made in general, but it isn't quite up to the standard of what I got when I ordered my original flute from Mile Hi. I don't know if they manufacture their stainless parts in the US or if they import them, but they're nice.

To illustrate it, on the left is the reflux condenser that came with this still. On the right is the one that I got with my flute from Mile Hi. You can see the difference in work quality. I think they'll both work fine, but they're pretty different.
two reflux condensers
two reflux condensers
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Oldvine Zin »

google translate has the top button saying "please press before closing" and the bottom one says "press once a month"

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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Hahaha :lol:
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

Oldvine Zin wrote:google translate has the top button saying "please press before closing" and the bottom one says "press once a month"

OVZ
Haha, yep, that's what my Chinese coworker said too, but "please press before closing" didn't make sense to me. Before closing what?

I figured it must mean Reset in a Chinese idiom. Like "press reset before turning the breaker back on because you tripped it."
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

I just took a look inside the jacket to see how it looked.

I had thought about testing with my old element which I'd use to do direct heating of washes in my smaller still since it already has a controller and power wired.

It's too dirty in there, though. I don't want to crud up the element that I will use for spirit runs. It's totally full of oil, flux, shavings, and grime. It's fine because it won't touch the wash, but it will make for some stinky steam.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Yummyrum »

MtRainier I’d use the mile-hi one . It has way more hole space compared to column diameter . The new one will have significantly more vapour speed through it than the Mile-hi and it won’t be able to knock down as much . Vapour blow through will set its max power limit. Also the volume of water in the new one will be significantly more than in the mile-high so lag time from changes in coolant flow to when the output changes will take much longer.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by MtRainier »

Yummyrum wrote:MtRainier I’d use the mile-hi one . It has way more hole space compared to column diameter . The new one will have significantly more vapour speed through it than the Mile-hi and it won’t be able to knock down as much . Vapour blow through will set its max power limit. Also the volume of water in the new one will be significantly more than in the mile-high so lag time from changes in coolant flow to when the output changes will take much longer.
Thanks for the input, Yummyrum. I think you're right on the money, and I'm glad I have the option to choose. I could post a similar pic of the 2" product condenser included in this order. The holes are just really small. As a result they were also dirty because they couldn't clean them well. I don't understand the design decisions that went in to making it because it has got to be harder than making one with larger holes.

I thought about putting it on top of the MileHi one in the column and kind of making a shunt in my cooling supply lines so that I could engage that one when I wanted extra knockdown power, but totally exclude it when running steady state, but honestly, I'm planning to use this double-wall still as a stripping still and will continue to use my 50L MileHi boiler and copper flute column for spirit runs, so I likely won't really need to use this reflux condenser at all.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by Oldvine Zin »

MtRainier wrote:
Yummyrum wrote: I thought about putting it on top of the MileHi one in the column and kind of making a shunt in my cooling supply lines so that I could engage that one when I wanted extra knockdown power, but totally exclude it when running steady state, but honestly, I'm planning to use this double-wall still as a stripping still and will continue to use my 50L MileHi boiler and copper flute column for spirit runs, so I likely won't really need to use this reflux condenser at all.
If anything when you do your cleaning runs on her you should use that condenser and see how it works. you may be surprised


OVZ
Last edited by Oldvine Zin on Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese double-wall still, ordering and setup

Post by SwollenGoat23 »

MtRainier wrote:
jonnys_spirit wrote:What happens when you push them?

Cheers,
-jonny
Nothing at the moment. Gotta wire it for them to do anything, I guess.

Muahahahaha! LMAO!
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