Setsumi's Twins

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Setsumi
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Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:18 am

So the project is not finished yet….

BUT in March I found ‘n piece of stainless steel pipe with a 100mm diameter at the scrap. I already have a flute/ plater and thought to do a second one. Since I do not have a stocked workshop and movements were restricted during lockdown, it went slow.
T1.jpg
T2.jpg
When I planned to cut the pipe I realized I just might be able to do TWINS! Two brewing friends helped out with keg tops for the bottoms.
Finally, in September I could visit my holiday home when inter provincial travel ban was lifted. Of course that was just an eye blind to the wife, I went to use my brother’s workshop.

TaDa meet my my twins, both ash blond with red and yellow attire.
T3.jpg
The one on the left can take a 76mm extension if I want to run neutral… but I did my first flute/plater like that and after 2 years have not done a neutral run yet. They can run 5 plates each, plates are spaced > 125mm apart. The bottom plates sit 60mm from the bottom. The ss pipes are 700mm. They run CCVM heads in 76mm shells. Take off is 54mm for one and 42mm for the other one. Both will eventually have a 550mm by 42mm shotgun with 3 by 15mm vapour paths as product coolers.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:32 am

Now for the plates.

I started with the plates, I always wanted to do something on the line of the ProCaps and after reading Jack C thread viewtopic.php?f=17&t=78362 I started with my procaps…. It is a 67mm slip coupler that was notched with 3mm by 6mm slots. Height is about 20mm. Center down comer is 22mm and the vapour path riser is 42mm on a 98mm plate.
T4.jpg
T5.jpg
Hacksaw with 2 thick blades for the notching.
T6.jpg
5 rings of 20mm x 67mm with 3mmx6mm slots for caps.
T7.jpg
Ja, I know I will not win a soldering competition.
T8.jpg
the rizers on the plates is 15mm high and 42mm pipe, down comers is 22mm pipe and ends in 35mm vapour lock.
T10.jpg
Plates started as 35mm pipe, if I can do it over i would use thicker pipe.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:34 am

T11.jpg
Did 10 plates but I am rethinking the cap thing…
T12.jpg
The plates fit loose in the stainless steel pipe so they stand on stainless steel legs. The caps and vapour locks are removable with stainless rods.
T13.jpg
After initial cleaning runs I have put a skirt on the bottom of the plates, I use a bit of PTFE tape on the skirt to help seal better. The ss pipe that the flutes are built from is rolled with a seam, it is not 100% round and without the skirt and PTFE tape there is a lot of weeping from the plates. I only have completed one set of caps for the plates. My first flute has perf plates and there is no difference in product between the plates for me. I think twin number 2 will run perfs… Yes, I am a bit over the procap challenge. They work well and I do not regret the build but perfs is just much easier.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:38 am

Now for the twins
T14.jpg
Keg tops welded.
T15.jpg
Tungsten carbide hole saw, oil and slow drill press. I wanted to solder the sight glasses before the cuts but my brother was not convinced the cutter will work so I ended up cutting first. The holes are 38mm.
T16.jpg
Site glasses is 42mm copper pipe with the thread and ring of half of a conex union. The brass is not in contact with the vapoyr. If anyone tries the conex union for sight glasses, buy all at once and make certain they all the same. I have 2 different types, AND because I was in a hurry when I installed the I have mixed them between the twins. They differ on threads as well as glass size!!!
T17.jpg
Test fitting the plates.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

Setsumi
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Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:43 am

Reflux management
T18.jpg
The twins run CCVM heads, shell is 76mm and take off on one is 42mm the other is 54mm. The condenser shell has a 50mm skirt that gets wrapped in PTFE tape and slips into the 100mm ss pipe of the flute. I still need to do product coolers but that I will only do in December, in the mean time I use my shotgun from my old flute.
T19.jpg
One twin can run a packed extension below the condenser… I do not know if I will use it though, but I do have the option.
T9.jpg
During the vinegar run I busted 2 sight glasses that a friend cut with his hands because I was in a hurry to run the second twin and I only had one set of glasses. I removed the glasses while hot and it cracked when it cooled down. Another friend friend made me another set and after 3 runs it is still intact. I use PTFE tape as gasket on the glass
T20.jpg
First twin during vinegar run. My plan is to eventually run both twins simultaneously on electric kegs, but I need to sort out my cooling water and electricity in my brewery first. I do not think it will happen in 2020 but that is the end goal.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

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shadylane
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by shadylane » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:00 am

Thank you for sharing with us Setsumi
I'm looking forward to seeing more of your build :thumbup:

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Durhommer
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Durhommer » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:17 am

Nice work
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....

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Demy
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Demy » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:15 pm

Here I am, so from your experience dishes or bubbles give an identical product? Does the heating management have any differences? In the future I would like to try to do something simple but that works well just to try the system, for aromatic spirits. I still distill small quantities (max 15-20 liters) and I have max 3000w (220v) available, I already run ccvm very well, I don't know if these systems require more or less power.I tried the "weakened" column with little packaging and it worked quite well, I don't know if I could make any money with a plate system.

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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Jack C » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:18 pm

Looks great!

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acfixer69
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by acfixer69 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:50 pm

Quote: " plates fit loose in the stainless steel pipe so they stand on stainless steel legs. The caps and vapour locks are removable with stainless rods."
I'm not understanding why the weeping and or blow by is not affecting the plate stability, and smearing should be a huge issue.

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm

acfixer69 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:50 pm
Quote: " plates fit loose in the stainless steel pipe so they stand on stainless steel legs. The caps and vapour locks are removable with stainless rods."
I'm not understanding why the weeping and or blow by is not affecting the plate stability, and smearing should be a huge issue.
the weeping is an issue, that is why i have placed a skirt around the plates. this helps to seal the plates. with the skirts they all load and keep their bath depth.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

Setsumi
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Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:21 pm

Demy wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:15 pm
Here I am, so from your experience dishes or bubbles give an identical product? Does the heating management have any differences? In the future I would like to try to do something simple but that works well just to try the system, for aromatic spirits. I still distill small quantities (max 15-20 liters) and I have max 3000w (220v) available, I already run ccvm very well, I don't know if these systems require more or less power.I tried the "weakened" column with little packaging and it worked quite well, I don't know if I could make any money with a plate system.
when you say dish i presume you mean perth plates. to me i do not think product wise there is difference between caps and perfs. perfs is supposed to have a smaller operating band than caps.... meaning you can run slower with caps. my second twin will eventually run perfs. on perfs you need to decide on open area, the more open area you have the more energy you need. myself think 4-6% open area suits my burner.

20lt is a bit small charge for a flute. my plan is to run electric in future but i cannot comment yet on the 3000W.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

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acfixer69
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by acfixer69 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:35 pm

Setsumi wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm
acfixer69 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:50 pm
Quote: " plates fit loose in the stainless steel pipe so they stand on stainless steel legs. The caps and vapour locks are removable with stainless rods."
I'm not understanding why the weeping and or blow by is not affecting the plate stability, and smearing should be a huge issue.
the weeping is an issue, that is why i have placed a skirt around the plates. this helps to seal the plates. with the skirts they all load and keep their bath depth.
The skirt will help fill the plates but blow by will increase watch the wall you will see condensation trailing up.

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:23 pm

acfixer69 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:35 pm
Setsumi wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm
acfixer69 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:50 pm
Quote: " plates fit loose in the stainless steel pipe so they stand on stainless steel legs. The caps and vapour locks are removable with stainless rods."
I'm not understanding why the weeping and or blow by is not affecting the plate stability, and smearing should be a huge issue.
the weeping is an issue, that is why i have placed a skirt around the plates. this helps to seal the plates. with the skirts they all load and keep their bath depth.
The skirt will help fill the plates but blow by will increase watch the wall you will see condensation trailing up.
i agree it is not as optimal as a modular plater with a gasget on each plate. but the skirt allows me to put PTFE tape around the bottom part and allow the plates to hold their liquid bath. true it does require enough energy to keep it loaded, i do not know how much energy since my electric wirering needs upgrade firts but on propane it works just above where i will run my packed column. i do loose a plate in late tails where i understand caps should stil be working. but it works even if it is old school.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

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shadylane
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by shadylane » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 pm

A little weeping doesn't hurt, It's the blow by that's bad.
I learned some lessons trying to fit a plate tree inside a 4" glass column. :oops:
The worst design I found for blow by was having a skirt to keep the liquid level on the plate.
That design was worst than having no skirt at all. With no skirt there was weepage, but also vapor / liquid contact with the vapor rising through the liquid.

A better design had the skirt hanging down below the plate. The reflux that tried to drain down the space between the column and plate had vapor bubbling up through it.

The best design used cotton string to completely seal the gap.
string seal.png
Last edited by shadylane on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 pm

shadylane wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 pm
A little weeping doesn't hurt, It's the blow by that's bad.
I learned some lessons trying to fit a plate tree inside a 4" glass column. :oops:
The worst design I found for blow by was having a skirt to keep the liquid level on the plate.
will a sleave below the plate and on top of the plate work better?
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

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shadylane
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by shadylane » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:31 pm

Here's a link to my build
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78254

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:10 am

shadylane wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:31 pm
Here's a link to my build
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78254
i saw your build, i do not think i have blow by and i am happy with my plates working but in all builds one can strive to do better. and unlike you i only have a front port to observe working of the plates. my bigger issue was reflux return that dropped into the downcommer but it is fixed now.

i must do a second set of plates and since i know my pipe is not 100% round i need to manage the gaps. i am going to try either a sleave below and on top of the plates or teflon rope... the teflon rope is VERY expensive over here so i will probably start with the sleaves.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

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shadylane
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by shadylane » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:52 am

This shape of plate skirt worked pretty good.
The skirt was slightly oversized, so the tree had to be pulled in and out the other side. It was a one way trip.
You couldn't pull it back wards

What I liked about the design was it had a good seal
And what little weepage it had was balanced with blowby.
The leak kinda acted like a sieve plate.
screenshot.png

Setsumi
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Re: Setsumi's Twins

Post by Setsumi » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:52 am

acfixer69 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:35 pm
Setsumi wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm
acfixer69 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:50 pm
Quote: " plates fit loose in the stainless steel pipe so they stand on stainless steel legs. The caps and vapour locks are removable with stainless rods."
I'm not understanding why the weeping and or blow by is not affecting the plate stability, and smearing should be a huge issue.
the weeping is an issue, that is why i have placed a skirt around the plates. this helps to seal the plates. with the skirts they all load and keep their bath depth.
The skirt will help fill the plates but blow by will increase watch the wall you will see condensation trailing up.
i have again looked at your comment and just realized my original wording of "loose" is even in my native language not the best term, it should have been "the plates is seperate from one another". given i have to manage the gap but i think they work okay.
press https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79008
twins viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80886
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?

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