liebig design question

[Magic]

First i want to say i love this forum. ive read and read till my eyes have bled and i still not certain my answer.
i am planning on building a liebig condenser because i think its a soimple build over the shotgun. so im a plumber and have all sorts a
of sizes of copper pipe. im wondering how long it should be for differnt size pipes i have 2 inch 1 1/2 1 1/4 1 inch and so on. it will be mounted on a 2 inch colum and a pot still collum about a foot long using triclamps for a modular build . I apppreciate any thoughts on this thanks.
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[zed255]

Mine is 36" from water inlet to water outlet 3/4" over 1/2" with 12ga copper wire wound around the 1/2" (to encourage the water to wrap around the vapour tube) and is quite capable. Some say the wire doesn't help, but it doesn't appear to hurt either. I intend to do a 24" version for one of my smaller rigs, similar arrangement. You could do 1" over 3/4", but the added expense likely is no real benefit. Lots of options. Keep the water jacket thin, don't bother with 1" over 1/2" as it will only be more expensive and heavier without doing a better job.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/downloa ... p?id=64354

[Bushman]

Zed’s design is probably the most common size on this forum.

[Expat]

Similar to Zed, mines 3/4" over 1/2" but I decided to push mine out to 48" jacket length. Extra length isn't a requirement but it sure is efficient. Had my output water up to 175f before I stopped as my still room was a tropical fog from the water going in the sink drain. Distillate was still cool though. A good choice for me as I'm on municipal water, also handy using the hot water to mash in. If you got the room bigger is better imo.

Pic in my sig if you're interested.

[RC Al]

Our Aussie copper is basically a size under the usa sizes, mines a 3/4 over 1/2 except in your sizes it would be 5/8 over 7/16, 72 inches between connections, 12 litres an hour stripping with some left in the tank, im on gas but it equates back to roughly 6000w.

Someone did a dual barrel one recently and reported good results, I would prefer a regular one for spirit runs though

Dont be fooled into thinking a big water jacket is good, you actually only want it very thin and the same for the centre pipe, much more than the 1/2" runs the risk of vapour just flowing up the middle of the pipe, i certainly wouldn't go past the 3/4"

Consider other different types of condensers, with access to lots of small tube you could knock up one of the more complicated but higher performing ones like the Davies https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=36335

[Deplorable]

My liebig build was also 3/4 over 1/2, about 37 inches between water ports, and 44 inches OAL witha 1.5 inch TC attachment. Worked fine, but wanted a shorter package so I built a shotgun. I doubt Ill ever use the liebig again.

[Zeotropic]

Similar to Zed, mines 3/4" over 1/2" but I decided to push mine out to 48" jacket length. Extra length isn't a requirement but it sure is efficient. Had my output water up to 175f before I stopped as my still room was a tropical fog from the water going in the sink drain. Distillate was still cool though. A good choice for me as I'm on municipal water, also handy using the hot water to mash in. If you got the room bigger is better imo.

Pic in my sig if you're interested.

I just built one with a 55 inch jacket. It is good to hear that it should be plenty powerful. [emoji44]

[NZChris]

I've automated 1" over 1/2" Liebigs using both pumps and solenoid valves with cheap on/off controllers and they both work really well. Automating 3/4" over 1/2" might work too, but I haven't tried that yet. Automating is only worthwhile if you don't have an endless supply of cheap, or free, cooling water.

[Yummyrum]

My first liebig was 3/4 over 1/2” about 1 metre long jacket .It’s a good starting condenser . I still use it on my Gin still .
My second is a 1” over 3/4” with just under 6’ shell . Thats my main condenser fir stripping . I love it because it keeps the flames far away from the collection vessel . I have clocked it at over 25 litres / hour but the flames were so high up the boiler , I was shitting myself .

I have spiral copper wire in both my liebig water jackets .
As said , the actual water flow is actually quite small and the thinner the jacket the better .

[Durhommer]

Same as deplorable I switched to a shotgun condenser I doubt I would use the old liebig again

[SassyFrass]

I used a worm and flake stand for a long time, then built/switched to a 6 foot long liebig, 3/4 over 1/2. Love the liebig. Ease of build, ease of use, and it will knock down anything I can throw at it. (I went to propane from wood fired). The 6' length allows me to get the product away from the flame and I found I like a long shallow angle with spout approximately table height. I think I get a better product, but who knows?[emoji848]
Make sure you drain ALL the water when storing for winter, otherwise you'll be rebuilding it in the spring. [emoji16]
Now that I'll be moving inside I'm looking at going electric and possibly building a shotgun, but I may just use my liebig that's been put up.[emoji848]
I made both of those changes(propane and liebig) after reading here at HD years ago.
The liebig is a great piece of gear. I realize 6' is probably way longer than needed, but its better to have and not need than need and not have. JMO.
SF

[Expat]

I used a worm and flake stand for a long time, then built/switched to a 6 foot long liebig, 3/4 over 1/2. Love the liebig. Ease of build, ease of use, and it will knock down anything I can throw at it. (I went to propane from wood fired). The 6' length allows me to get the product away from the flame and I found I like a long shallow angle with spout approximately table height. I think I get a better product, but who knows?[emoji848]
Make sure you drain ALL the water when storing for winter, otherwise you'll be rebuilding it in the spring. [emoji16]
Now that I'll be moving inside I'm looking at going electric and possibly building a shotgun, but I may just use my liebig that's been put up.[emoji848]
I made both of those changes(propane and liebig) after reading here at HD years ago.
The liebig is a great piece of gear. I realize 6' is probably way longer than needed, but its better to have and not need than need and not have. JMO.
SF

Keeping output away from the flames is definitely the best and most valid reason I know!

Shotgun is definitely a compact way to go, however if you end up having to extend it to reach a bench, compact isn't really a benefit relative to its build complexity. I doubt that a shotgun will be quite as efficient as a well designed liebig as there will be areas where the tolerances are larger and therefore less turbulent.

[zed255]

I can see the appeal of the shotgun if a relatively short condenser is warranted, but seems too many starting out are getting the impression they NEED one. With the increased build complexity, materials cost and the potential fits a new builder might have making one, I don't see why it would be the current darling on HD. Maybe for the machismo and technical ecstasy of having one? They can be heavy too compared to other types.

Hard to beat a liebig for cost, weight and ease of construction for the novice.

[Saltbush Bill]

I agree totally Zed. To many newbs seem to think that a shot gun is a "must have ".
Imo they are just bling and overkill on most stills.
The extra time and effort to build one is hardly worth any gain that you might get.
A good size well built liebig does most anything I will ever need. For the record my plated column runs a shotty, however I do at times use my liebig on it and it works just as well.

[Magic]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts, so i guess i am going with a 3/4 over 1/2 since it is effective, affordable, safe,( if i add a little extra length) because i am using flames, simple, and because im not ready for a shot gun. already have a lot of pipe just need my fittings and will go tomorrow after my doc apt to get them. already ordered my tri clamps and plan on making my own ferrules. will post pics when im done thanks again for all the advice.

[Saltbush Bill]

As a few have said there is nothing wrong with inch over 3/4 either......thats how mine is to fwiw.

[Expat]

Don't forget the copper wire spiral wrap on the inner tube

[Magic]

Don't forget the copper wire spiral wrap on the inner tube

okay now im curious about the wire on the inner tube is that something i should do ? is it really more effective? and what size wire>?

[zed255]

...12ga copper wire wound around the 1/2" (to encourage the water to wrap around the vapour tube)...

https://homedistiller.org/forum/downloa ... p?id=64354

Solid wire stripped out of normal electrical wire. Wound in a gentle helix ( several times around, not a tight coil or spring) around the vapour tube to make at least some of the cooling water take a longer path and increase dwell time of the cooling water. Some advocate the practise other suggest it doesn't matter. I feel it is helpful, but I have not made any empirical studies to prove my feeling on the matter.

[Magic]

...12ga copper wire wound around the 1/2" (to encourage the water to wrap around the vapour tube)...

https://homedistiller.org/forum/downloa ... p?id=64354

Solid wire stripped out of normal electrical wire. Wound in a gentle helix ( several times around, not a tight coil or spring) around the vapour tube to make at least some of the cooling water take a longer path and increase dwell time of the cooling water. Some advocate the practise other suggest it doesn't matter. I feel it is helpful, but I have not made any empirical studies to prove my feeling on the matter.

sounds easy enough ive got wire laying around cant hurt so i guess thats what i will do thanks

[Expat]

...12ga copper wire wound around the 1/2" (to encourage the water to wrap around the vapour tube)...

https://homedistiller.org/forum/downloa ... p?id=64354

Solid wire stripped out of normal electrical wire. Wound in a gentle helix ( several times around, not a tight coil or spring) around the vapour tube to make at least some of the cooling water take a longer path and increase dwell time of the cooling water. Some advocate the practise other suggest it doesn't matter. I feel it is helpful, but I have not made any empirical studies to prove my feeling on the matter.

And soldered!

[MichiganCornhusker]

If you’re worried about capability, just make the Liebig 1” longer and skip the wire wrap. 3/4” over 1/2”, Easy peasy, no need to pet it.

[Yummyrum]

And soldered!

Yup . Best way I found was clamp the wire to the pipe at one end ( vise grips work well) .
Wrap the wire in a spiral keeping it tight against the pipe with a pitch of about 6 - 8” and clamp it at the bottom .

Stand the pipe upright while soldering . Apply the liquid flux to the top and it basically follows the spiral to the bottom . Again start the soldering at the top and it will flow down the spiral to the bottom .

It is important to make sure the wire is tight against the pipe as depending on its thickness , you may have a hell of a job sliding the jacket on otherwise .

[NZChris]

Having watched what happens in a Liebig with a clear water jacket, plus painting them with thermochromic pigment, unless the spiral is an extremely close fit, or the condenser is vertical, the difference in density of hot and cold water is enough to stop the water spiraling the inner unless the flow rate is very high, usually a result of having an undersized condenser. There was a thread about this effect a few years ago.

I reckon it's better to build an oversized condenser than to have to pull every efficiency trick to get away with using a mini condenser, especially if the availability of cooling water is an issue.

[Yummyrum]

Well this is what I saw on a cool winters night on my old liebig .
The condensation patterns show something was happening due to the spiral wrapped wire .

Mind you , I’ll happily admit that at the time I was nit aware of temp gradients and just ran the water flat chat .

[NZChris]

Chris , I know you hate posting pics , but man , there is a lot if cool stuff to share iff’n you did . I’m sure you have an art gallery of the stuff .

Sorry to disappoint you, Yummy, but I don't. I've never been one to post pics on social media and much of my stilling gear is built out of what I had in my steel rack, or what I found at the scrappy on the day. I reckon you should build out of what you've got handy, or can get cheaply. What my main still and preheater is built out of cost me bugger all and contains a good percentage of copper, but it would cost you an arm and a leg to duplicate it, which is why I've never posted pics of it for newbies.

I have posted a pic of the top end of a very simple and efficient Liebig design if you can find it.

[NZChris]

I have posted a pic of the top end of a very simple and efficient Liebig design if you can find it.

I can't find it, so I doubt you will. Very annoying. If I remember, I'll post another pic of it.

[Expat]

As I recall from my last build, #10 wire was a pretty tight fit, and definitely impacts the water flow. My own observations and the insightful pic Yummy posted above support its inclusion in the build.

Ignoring for a moment the above, at a minimum adding a soldered wire to the inner tube increases the surface area and raises its efficiency, which is well worth the 5 minutes(at most) it takes to add.